'No indicators' revisited

Frugi, the time indicated is 06. It looks like the bar has updated. Also volumetrically speaking and in terms of spread behaviour within the context of price development the last bar looks right. The only thing that worries me is size on the bid, but I think it is a shunt.
 
Just been breezing around this thread, probably missed the point, but anyone ever talk about Peter Steidlmayer (do a google search on this guy). I have no connection with him, but he came up with an intuitively (good word-it's what markets are about) reasonable way of looking at price and volume.

Saw him in a class c.1989- real time trading various indices and commodities and looked good. Haven't used for years, mainly because the systems I use don't take it, but worth a delve into the annals.

As close to No indicators as Ive ever seen.
 
Mr. Charts said:
I have not, to the best of my memory, participated in this thread before and was doing so to try to help bring it back on track with a real trade.
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Yes. I know. I wasn't implying anything personally Richard. I was merely saying it might be a temptation for some of us aspiring Dark-Siders (was for me!) to check out the subsequent action and make a really good call.

I am looking forward to your play on this trade and your reasons for it. It's certainly pulled a lot of interest and I'm pleased this thread is back in business.

Also hope you'll continue and become a regular contributor...
 
jimbo57 said:
Just been breezing around this thread, probably missed the point, but anyone ever talk about Peter Steidlmayer
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Market Profile? Nobody has yet but I guess within the definition of 'No Inds' it's valid. I've read the CBOT MP manual and it's a good read.

It's more on time & price than volume.

Still in the 'No Inds' ball park though.

Any practitioners?
 
Mr. Charts said:
In light side ( ;-0 ) parlance a "crank"
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Ha ! Ha! Ha! No, a shunt occurs when price action quietens down and there is plenty of time to do mischief to mislead by playing about with the bid and ask, so that it appears bullish but because the real intent is bearish because for example there is no real demand but orders do come in as purchases, then in order to further stimulate these orders to trap the unwary as weak holders the bid size is announced fractionally before the ask. Then that size is unloaded onto a willing buyer whose existence has not been revealed/announced. This is done very quickly and if you blink you miss it. It happens when prices are moving sideways with very very narrow spreads for some time. Then suddenly the real intent is revealed and prices begin to motor, either up or down.
 
TheBramble said:
Market Profile? Nobody has yet but I guess within the definition of 'No Inds' it's valid. I've read the CBOT MP manual and it's a good read.

It's more on time & price than volume.

Still in the 'No Inds' ball park though.

Any practitioners?
Click to expand...
Exactly- Market Profile. I agree it's more on time and price, best lecture I ever saw on trading...time is the unknown in trading..spent a lot of time looking at it both mathematically and philosophically over the years...Intuitively (that word again) why should a 13 year high (as we say in oil recently- a market I know well) on a linear time chart be relevant? We all know we remember what happened yesterday better than the week before....extrapolate this...

Peter did the best job Ive ever seen of "rationalising" this dimension at least for me
 
SOCRATES said:
Ha ! Ha! Ha! No, a shunt occurs when price action quietens down and there is plenty of time to do mischief to mislead by playing about with the bid and ask, so that it appears bullish but because the real intent is bearish because for example there is no real demand but orders do come in as purchases, then in order to further stimulate these orders to trap the unwary as weak holders the bid size is announced fractionally before the ask. Then that size is unloaded onto a willing buyer whose existence has not been revealed/announced. This is done very quickly and if you blink you miss it. It happens when prices are moving sideways with very very narrow spreads for some time. Then suddenly the real intent is revealed and prices begin to motor, either up or down.
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There's a lot to learn....
 
The other detail that fascinates me is the fact that throughout all this market action there is serious activity on up bars, in a falling market. These up bars are quite distinctive, there is no attempt to hide a willingness to sell into rises to trap weak holders again and again, shameless it is, so on balance it is still short, BUT, I say a tight stop because I have seen situations like this one in which the herd can be stimulated into buying so that the market is lifted to trap them and then plop ! Down it goes!
 
Thanks Socrates. If you don't mind my asking, Is a 'shunt' a form of trickery?
E.g placement of large transient bids to entice naive bulls, while covertly offloading the seemingly scarce stock to them on the other side?

Edit; Q answered, cheers :)
 
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Yes, and I will tell you more. When I was on the floor in the days before Big Bang, prices were made on a Quote system, which meant the Jobber could quote but not necessarily deal. Now this was really naughty because the moment market conditions changed all these quotes went out of the window to be replaced by really effective price and size, that were actively dealt on.
 
The thread alights. Excellent. :idea: :arrowr:

I would more than welcome everyone's comments on today's 15 min Euro.
 

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Whippy market eh Frugi ? The second bottom smacks of intervention ~ clear support at 1.2250,
look at the activity to support it, huge !
 
SOCRATES said:
Ha ! Ha! Ha! No, a shunt occurs when price action quietens down and there is plenty of time to do mischief to mislead by playing about with the bid and ask, so that it appears bullish but because the real intent is bearish because for example there is no real demand but orders do come in as purchases, then in order to further stimulate these orders to trap the unwary as weak holders the bid size is announced fractionally before the ask. Then that size is unloaded onto a willing buyer whose existence has not been revealed/announced. This is done very quickly and if you blink you miss it. It happens when prices are moving sideways with very very narrow spreads for some time. Then suddenly the real intent is revealed and prices begin to motor, either up or down.
Click to expand...

SOCRATES

"orders come in as purchases " you mean bids ?

how can the bid size be announced fractionally befre the ask ? or are you describing trading in the days before it was computerised ?
 
crank = shunt = fake

I'm pleased my post has brought this thread back to where it belongs ;-)

Different decisions make markets
- so all views are respected
- so expressing a view is NOT sticking your head above the parapet
- so anyone else care to give a "view"?
Richard
 
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