New PC system

[chump]

New pc system in order. Thinking I'll get something built to do the trading job etc. A 3 monitor system which gives me 4 altogether with my Rock.
So has anyone had a UK Company put together a high spec system inc 3 monitors has a package and if so can you recommend them ?

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

A bit of an extreme solution to not being able to post an image as you wanted it Chump!

Not answering your question, but I would have a serious think about whether you want Vista or not. I've been noticing all sorts of little asterisks cropping up in software ads saying 'not compatible with Vista' - most recently when looking to buy a new 3G datacard for my laptop.

If he doesn't answer directly you may want to PM Rossored because I think he builds these things professionally.

 

[Glenn]

New pc system in order. Thinking I'll get something built to do the trading job etc. A 3 monitor system which gives me 4 altogether with my Rock.
So has anyone had a UK Company put together a high spec system inc 3 monitors has a package and if so can you recommend them ?

Worth checking here Chump.
www.x-stock.co.uk

I recently bought a brand new Dell with 3 yrs on-site warranty at less than half price from them
They take cancelled or returned stock from Dell and re-sell it.
You can haggle with them. Had a graphic card removed from the system I wanted and got a reduction.
Bought a quad card and 4 screens separately elsewhere.
PM me if you want to know more.

Cheers
Glenn

 

[chump]

thanks guys.
I've found one company Cube247 who do a triple monitor setup ,but I don't really know anything about them so that is a bit of a drawback.

Jack...
I think I'd prefer to stick with XP at the moment ...Vista will be for test crash dummes for awhile yet if microsoft play true to form.

 

[anley]

www.chillblast.com know their stuff and use good components.

Do your research though as its very important if you want to get a good machine.

 

[hampy]

Chump,

Rossored has certainly said here recently that he builds PC's professionally, so worth a PM.

Also Chartman, who used to run the Dow thread, don't know if he still builds them, but also worth a PM.

The PC mags are saying great things about the new Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs, lightning fast, quieter, and about 40% less power consumption than previous P4. If you want to get into computer based trading, like grey 1's vwap, then PC capability a serious consideration

I have just built my own, surprisingly straight forward. As glenn said get a graphics card appropriate to the number of screens you want, and a motherboard with plenty of available RAM, then you can add extra screens as you need and up your computing power if necessary.

If building from scratch sounds daunting you can buy a ,'barebones' bundle from the likes of Novatech, with a case, cpu, motherboard and ram installed, you just add dvd drive, hard drive, graphics card of your choice, plenty of retailers on the web, such as Aria, to get the best prices.
If you buy 'XP' at the mo you get Vista upgrade voucher for about £10.
I have done this, so will continue to use XP until all the Vista bugs are sorted.

Cheers, hampy

 

[hampy]

.....this is only true is the software you are running has been programmed to take advantage of dual core...if not your better off staying with a top single core....its possible to be worse off with dual core.

Thanks Mr M, I am not sure what software I will settle with.
I would certainly be grateful if you could post or PM me with what you consider to be a perfect trading set up. (Sorry Chump, didn't mean to hijack your thread!)

Thanks, hampy

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

.....alright mate...few qs...

1.is the machine going to be exclusively for trading?
2.are you settled with a particular trading software?

...both are hugely important....you can either pm or i will post on here how to set up nigh perfect trading machines due to help from sandy.

if you can afford to make it trading exclusive you'll be doing your self great favours.

cheers mark j

ps.....resist the temptation to order....yet....some guys i know spent major doolicks ....only for the machine to be in appropriate for the software and usage.

I'm intrigued that a trading optimised machine would be so different - what things would you be wanting / looking for compared to a high spec general purpose PC?

 

[hampy]

OK, Thanks I'll PM you.

 

[Atilla]

...its really about optimising the environment to the needs......we all like a bit of top gear on Sunday evenings right........you know you get the off the shelf cars for example.....an m5..........but then you get the modded version.....where the floor is so thin you feel like your one emergency stop from converting it to a car the flinstones would be proud off.....stripped down versions...im not good at the clarkson stuff :cheesy: ...so thats one side.




in basic terms.

1.get the correct machine for your needs....how many screens etc....what running on the screens .....what level of data speed is acceptable...btw the data itself ...the delivery is not usually the issue....its the charting side ...its clunky and slow at the drawing side... written poorly.

2 strip the programs and keep them to a minimum.....this starts at the operating system....vista is seriously laddened with poo.....an example would be....no need for even anti virus software if done correctly.the majority of resources are used making applications user friendly..however this kills performance... trading is all about optimising edges ...that includes delivery of data and execution etc.

3.make sure the applications can take advantage of the hardware you are looking at...if not its a waste of time buying dual or quad core.

i can go in more details...but prefer to by skype.....someone could type it up and post it to help others.....my hands are not designed to type anymores. .....cheers mark j


(ps the above is all copyright of the sandman)

Hi Chump,

All good advice here but one point I disagree with is the CPU. I'd say buy the latest dual core chip based PC. Intel or AMD doesn't make too much difference except AMD Athlon 64 has the edge re:Cost v Performance benefit.

Remember, your PC should last you at least 3+ years so do you want to upgrade 1.5 years down the line when if your trading software gets upgraded to benefit from Dual Core Vista Based Operating System? Plan ahead. I would guess that a man of your stature surely wouldn't want to quible about a £100 difference on chip prices.

Not sure if you want the hassle of playing about with computer hardware. Leave that to the professionals. I prefer Dells for quality builds with good support my self, prebuilt with the XP OS. Avoid Vista for the time being I agree with everyone else. Also, as mentioned it comes with a lot of rubbish add ons which can and should be removed.

You can then add your preferred graphics quad card with your LCD (19" wide screen recom. displays) or get a techie install card drivers and monitors for you.

I have looked around and to buy a pre-built quad display PC costs £2000-3000 but I'm sure it can be achieved for considerably less.

Be interested what you decide to go with and your rating on the kit once you have your kit setup.

Good luck.

 

[chump]

Thanks again any by all means keep the advice coming ...I'm a bit of a neanderthal ...my old computer below was relatively easy to maintain....so I won't be tinkering myself.

I came across this....
http://www.cube247.co.uk/cube/frameindex.html
which seemed relatively cheap to me if it's coming straight out of a box...BUT...I don't know anything about them.

Software...good point Marcus...I'll look into that compatibility issue before I do anyhting and no , I won't be ordering until I'm absolutely sure that I have ticked all of the boxes.
Arguably I don't need all this pc power for what I currently do ,but as the man said I'm thinking forward. Frankly I would much rather spend a few hundred and get more than I need right now on the assumption that nothing stands still.

Might also have a look at the other option mentioned ,buying a base system and then getting someone into put the graphic side together. I hadn't considered that.

No way Vista is coming is coming in though ..let them get the bugs out first.

 

[Atilla]

Thanks again any by all means keep the advice coming ...I'm a bit of a neanderthal ...my old computer below was relatively easy to maintain....so I won't be tinkering myself.

I came across this....
http://www.cube247.co.uk/cube/frameindex.html
which seemed relatively cheap to me if it's coming straight out of a box...BUT...I don't know anything about them.

Software...good point Marcus...I'll look into that compatibility issue before I do anyhting and no , I won't be ordering until I'm absolutely sure that I have ticked all of the boxes.
Arguably I don't need all this pc power for what I currently do ,but as the man said I'm thinking forward. Frankly I would much rather spend a few hundred and get more than I need right now on the assumption that nothing stands still.

Might also have a look at the other option mentioned ,buying a base system and then getting someone into put the graphic side together. I hadn't considered that.

No way Vista is coming is coming in though ..let them get the bugs out first.

Hercules ST9 with Asus MotherBoard + AMD chipset has my vote.

I'd add AntiVirus SW as a must. Recommend one called "F-Secure 2007" which I consider to be better than Nortons. But a MUST either way.

 

[Bez]

I'd be inclined to be going round comet ,currys, pc world ect..and haggle for a base unit with XP still on it.

With the Visa hype there's some good deals to be had on the rock solid XP platform..Its a 5min job to add another graphics card, you could even use your old one!! It should be no more than £25 to fit at your local PC shop if your not 100% to fit it!

£349 is a good ball park price for an AMD athlon based unit with 1gig of Ram and 250 HD...Anything more is over kill.

 

[Mr. Charts]

chump,
re-Hampy's comment about Chartman
It's no good asking Martin as I did exactly that before Hampy and I talked about exactly this a couple of years ago. Martin had given up PC building and was building bigger things.
Hey, Hampy, are the trees in bloom down there yet?
Richard

 

[chump]

Attila,
I had not seen the Hercules..must of not scrolled down that far. That seems to differ from the Taurus on the on the processor and Graphics card. What do you think of the relative merits of the two different graphics cards ? or would either one be adequate for the job ?

Bez,
I'll be having a look at merit of using a base unit and I'll take that suggestion as you are probably right.With the windows change over in full flow this might be a good time. Once I've had a look at the software issues.

 

[chump]

Yes, I think the software issues are paramount really. This is going to be just for trading ,we've got other kit for any other activities so I'm going to make it a priority to get into that before I do anythingelse.

 

[Bez]

I'd be definitely looking to buy your TFT's separately.... The ones they package with base units are always poor compaired with market leading TFT displays

 

[Atilla]

Attila,
I had not seen the Hercules..must of not scrolled down that far. That seems to differ from the Taurus on the on the processor and Graphics card. What do you think of the relative merits of the two different graphics cards ? or would either one be adequate for the job ?

Bez,
I'll be having a look at merit of using a base unit and I'll take that suggestion as you are probably right.With the windows change over in full flow this might be a good time. Once I've had a look at the software issues.

You can definately buy cheaper PCs but a PC is a little like a diamond it has many facets of distinction and only an expert can tell you about all it's features. Stuff at PC World or Curry's are normally low spec low grade for low prices but you get poor performance imo.


The two main differences are

1. CPU - Intel v AMD
2. RAM on the graphics card; 1Gb or 640Mb.

1. I prefer AMD which has gained on Intel in the last couple of years and is regarded to be a better chip. Intel was used to be or said to be for Enterprise based servers as they supported all applications but that's a good 10 years old now. It was true once but not anymore.

I haven't heard of any compatibility issues with AMD chips.

Remember Compaq was an IBM clone and look at it now - purchased by HP and now market leaders for performance.

If you want to pick camps read about them on Toms Hardware site below.

2. CPU and RAM on the graphics card off loads processing from the main CPU on the PC so you can perform faster display calculations. More RAM generaly the better.

However, you can run very powerful games requiring highly complex floating point integer calculations to present the image of water and reflections and these high performance cards have 256 - 512Mb RAM so having 640 for drawing lines on charts and multiple windows should be more than sufficient. 1 Gb is good but I think manufacturers simply added more memory onto the card as RAM prices fallen considerably too in last few years.

I hope I have answered your question...

If I may add, your decision at the end of the day...

Your PC can be just for trading BUT sooner or later a disk a file or an email can get onto your PC. With ADSL you have no security. You may have it at your ADSL Router/Modem but these are basic all the same.

You MUST have a Anti-Virus and Firewall installed. They have a small impact on performance but not when the files are loaded and you are doing calculations. When you are buying a big beast like these puppys you will not notice file reading writing. Especially with RAID striped hard disk configurations. If you like buy it once and don't bother upgrading the next year to get downloads. At least you'll be firewalled and protected against 99% of viruses.

AntiVirus-Firewalls protect the PC. To say they kill the machine is bad reckless advice. Kill a celeron based PC perhaps where some an under specked PC is running with virtual ram - yes but not this beast with 4Gb RAM, striped RAID config hard disk. Why not run perfmon or look at some stats.



---



As a matter of interest to our other readers of this thread...

Regarding performance in PCs you are looking for essentially these features below.

Anybody who would like more detail and reading have a look at this excellent site... Tom's Hardware top site for PC evaluation articles...

1. CPU - Processor - Celeron CPUs low spec - Rec., Dual Core new chipset.
2. RAM - DDRII RAM preffered. Faster chips. DDRIII also available now.
3. Hard Disk - You have spin speed RPL & read write access in milliseconds
4. Graphics card PCI-e preferred - CPU on board card + RAM + speed features + resolutions supported
5. LCD Display - ppi - pixels per inch and refresh cycles. Higher pixel density and quick refresh the better. Also, they have a manufacturers recommended screen resolution setting like 1440-900 pixels for wide screen etc etc. Higher the screen resolution lower the frequency refresh cycle etc etc.

There are more but these in a nut shell are the important performance value factors.



Anybody who wants to look at their PC performance do the following...

1. Right Click on the status bar at a blank section. (This is where your START button is located on the status bar).
2. From the pop-up window select Task Manager
3. Click on Performance tab to get image below...

Basically, this tells you

A. Pysical Memory (K)
Total memory on your PC. Mine has 2Gb=2,096,112
Available - Using 510Mb so 1.5 Mb free

B. Commit Charge (K)
Total you are using = 510324
Limit on your PC with virtual disk ram
Peak - how much you used at most

C. CPU usage tells you if your processor is the problem. It's normal for this to touch 100% for short intervals but usually will sit idle doing not much.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

You MUST have a Anti-Virus and Firewall installed. They have a small impact on performance but not when the files are loaded and you are doing calculations. When you are buying a big beast like these puppys you will not notice file reading writing. Especially with RAID striped hard disk configurations. If you like buy it once and don't bother upgrading the next year to get downloads. At least you'll be firewalled and protected against 99% of viruses.

AntiVirus-Firewalls protect the PC. To say they kill the machine is bad reckless advice. Kill a celeron based PC perhaps where some an under specked PC is running with virtual ram - yes but not this beast with 4Gb RAM, striped RAID config hard disk. Why not run perfmon or look at some stats.

This I believe is good advice and should be taken notice of, ignore it at your peril. I myself am on cable broadband and as such on an open network, I caught various link file,and network virus while unprotected, it is also possible for other users to use a port sniffer to look at files on your PC, I have had great fun in the past with these :cheesy:

I have never used ADSL so cant comment on whether this is the same.

A broadband router that acts as a hardware firewall is also beneficial.

A software firewall that stealths ports is a must.

and anti virus software if anything gets through those defences.

you should protect your trading tool, be careful out there.

don

 

[Atilla]

.....please atilla......my advice is not reckless.....you dont need an anti virus or software firewall.....hardware firewalls and only usuing specific ports for the data feeds mean you need any of this junk....all this stuff is designed for reckless surfing...and end of day to sell to people who dont know what there doin.the internal xp programs are good enough for what is required.....again....bulky front ends are added to most programs for ease of use.

expensive graphics cards is plain silly and a waste of money.

btw you can pick up some great machines at pc world at the mo

this is general pc advice....which is fine as far as it goes....but my machines are dedicated solely for the purposes of trading..... i have 10 of the things running specked for solely this task.

ill get my tech guy on here...he can explain....as he has sets up international banking systems.

do you guys wants sexy home PCs or optimised trading PCs?...if you want pro trading PCs you can mail me...if not this is gonna go back and forth i can see.

What happens when your data provider catches a virus?

Most hackers work in IT? What happens if your data provider has a rogue disgruntled employee?

Spyware, keyloggers, zombies and bots the list for alarm is endless.

Your traders may not have antivirus but I strongly suspect in your company you have perimeter defence firewalls like checkpoint or many others. Also, with web and mail sweepers. Check it. If you don't you IT systems are seriously exposed.

Why not try a penertration test and get a full report. We have and you'll be shocked at the findings.

Users at home can try this basic test for vulnerability.