Mike Baghdady - should I take a course or not?

[alphadude]

Since the full names of the turtles are public; someone should contact them and verify the facts

did Malcolm find his partner's whereabouts yet?

 

[pipsplease]

I can assure everyone that the turtle experiment is well and truly over. They have all left the premises and are getting on with life. The offices are deserted after the turtles and staff took away whatever they could. As stated earlier Malcolm Steel filmed the whole surreal episode as it took place. Several had already left before the whole thing collapsed. It is surprising that only one has formally resigned from the LLP but they were well and truly warned to do so.

The real disappointing thing is that not one of them has come on here and told a little of the truth. They only received around 20% to 25% of what they were promised. They were instructed to take trades by Baghdady and many of those failed. They were having margin calls. They could not take good set-ups because they did not have the funds to do so. Many of them had blazing rows with Baghdady and wanted to try little changes to the method - no chance!!!

I think they believe that people on here are having a go at them but they just do not seem to get the fact that they were cheated and a number came on and defended Baghdady. You were cheated. Mike Baghdady and Ben Tuckey did not have the funds to cover what was publically committed. How is it possible to defend such a scam?

A point that seems to have passed right over the head of many of the turtles.
If Baghdady and Tuckey did not have the funds they claimed and many others were owed money outside of the business - whose money were you actually trading with?????? Maybe they will begin to understand the anger of some at this obscene situation.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Yes and of course there is already a first gazette for them. Is there any insurance cover in such circumstances?

i'm getting very confused now, which company of theirs was the 1st gazette for? and what was it for? they keep changing names at such a rate that it's hard to keep up.

i'm assuming here that TMZF LTD is ok, as accounts have been filed. TMZF of course is spyglass and tt. so which of the many incarnations and name changers is in trouble? or in voluntary liqiudation? or what?

 

[pboyles]

i'm getting very confused now, which company of theirs was the 1st gazette for? and what was it for? they keep changing names at such a rate that it's hard to keep up.

i'm assuming here that TMZF LTD is ok, as accounts have been filed. TMZF of course is spyglass and tt. so which of the many incarnations and name changers is in trouble? or in voluntary liqiudation? or what?

First Gazette is recorded against MBTWP Ltd which is a new name for Training Traders. I'm also slightly confused with all the name changes and I suspect CH perhaps hasn't recorded everything correctly.

 

[The Leopard]

I still find the whole thing baffling. MB assured us he was a millionaire trader with decades of experience. MB said he had wonderful methods, fantastic indicators that you couldn't find anywhere else, and offered to train people out of pure generosity. He didn't do it for money, but simply to help people. Especially people who had a spare 10 grand .

MB said they used to call him The Macdaddy. MB said the new turtles were going be their new hedge fund managers. Instead, it seems they have been flushed down the crapper, like old turtles.

Indeed, it seems like there was already a big juicy stool in the bog when they were put in. Nobody could even be bothered to flush it before they were tossed in. So they ended their turtle days in a lavatory bowl, swirling around in water already fouled by human excrement.

So yes, I am confused. If you can't trust a trading vendor, who can you trust?

I am beginning to think that some trading vendors - not many, probably only 1% or so - might not be wildly successful traders who are simply passing their knowledge on through sheer altruism. I am beginning to think that some might be people who haven't got a clue about trading, have failed at it and are just flogging worthless crap to gullible, greedy morons for as much money as they can squeeze out of them.

That some trading vendors might simply be nothing more than conmen.

This of course doesn't apply to MB. I feel this thread, and the events revealed in it, do great credit to this fine upstanding man. I would love to buy a course from him - if only someone were at his office to answer the phone!

 

[alphadude]

having spent 100s of hours on webinars; and courses; i have developed a new skill. Will surely add it to my t2w profile:

"Experienced Punter consultant with real world expertise in working with Conmen, Conwoman and BagOfCrapDaddy's"

PS: I intentionally had "Conwoman" there; as i have only met one lady educator who was indeed full of crap. Her crap is all over Amazon reviews pages

 

[the hare]

Many of them had blazing rows with Baghdady and wanted to try little changes to the method - no chance!!!

I find it quite interesting that people who knew so little that they fell for this nonsense, believed that they knew enough to start questioning the method after only a few months !

The easiest thing to have done would have been to allow the turtles some lattitude, therefore allowing him to place the blame for failure directly on the individual for not following the method.

I suppose you have to ask the question, did Mr Baghdady stick to his method due to cast iron disipline and self belief in his method, or simply due to ego ?

Its also quite interesting that the turtles became so emotionally attatched to the outcome of the trades so quickly, particularly when trading someone elses money, although I do understand they'd be quite keen to establish that the method actually worked.

The question you ask about the origin of the funds being traded is a good one. Even funded at 20% of the original promised amount, thats still 250-300K, an amount quite possibly generated from the training traders business. If thats true the situation would be rather obscene.

 

[alphadude]

I am beginning to think that some trading vendors - not many, probably only 1% or so - might not be wildly successful traders who are simply passing their knowledge on through sheer altruism. I am beginning to think that some might be people who haven't got a clue about trading, have failed at it and are just flogging worthless crap to gullible, greedy morons for as much money as they can squeeze out of them.

That some trading vendors might simply be nothing more than conmen.

what are your thoughts on the conclusions i've drawn so far:
- Academia is designed to stream line the education process; and to document the successes of various domains; in a way easier for punters to upgrade their knowledge
- Academia is the place in society where noobs can learn a new thing about the trade
- Academia consists of educators. Some have no experience at all, some have failed in real world and turn-back; and very few who succeeded and decided to give back to society (these are the treasure that you need to look for).
- Real world experts are usually not available to teach. Why would they spoil the fun of their success.
- Some real world experts do teach at some stage in their life. Perhaps to get more cash$$ but why? isn't their trading career made them millionnaires?
- Academia is generally win-win for noobs. Where else would they get the clues?
- Sadly Academia is also a magnet for losers and conmen. In the trading world; i am 95% confident (with statistical significance) that 90% of the population are lying about their claims (aka conmen; depending which dictionary you look at)

I personally have no problem with educators who have no trading experience; as long as they are:

- Honest about their profile, claims, past experience (failure and successes)
- States the limitation of their offerings (i.e. not to promise they will make you a turtle)
- Wish you luck in trading; or tell you that you are likely to end up in tears
- For God's sake; do not tell us they are "Traders"

 

[DionysusToast]

So yes, I am confused. If you can't trust a trading vendor, who can you trust?

I am beginning to think that some trading vendors - not many, probably only 1% or so - might not be wildly successful traders who are simply passing their knowledge on through sheer altruism. I am beginning to think that some might be people who haven't got a clue about trading, have failed at it and are just flogging worthless crap to gullible, greedy morons for as much money as they can squeeze out of them.

That some trading vendors might simply be nothing more than conmen.

Impossible!

Don't you know that money brings out the best in people?

 

[the hare]

I am beginning to think that some might be people who haven't got a clue about trading, have failed at it and are just flogging worthless crap to gullible, greedy morons for as much money as they can squeeze out of them.

You might be right, but I doubt this applies to Mr Baghdady. If you listen to the webinar provided in your earlier link at around 35:00 you will quite clearly hear him say "I dont want anyone to think we are doing this for monetary gain"

As we well know, Mr Baghdady isnt a man who would deliberately mislead anyone.



Trade Live The New York Session

 

[The Leopard]

You might be right, but I doubt this applies to Mr Baghdady. If you listen to the webinar provided in your earlier link at around 35:00 you will quite clearly hear him say "I dont want anyone to think we are doing this for monetary gain"

As we well know, Mr Baghdady isnt a man who would deliberately mislead anyone.



Trade Live The New York Session

One thing I will say for old Mahmoud.

He has given us the kind of lulz that you just don't see any more.

People have mentioned Trading Elite Club, Mr Spreadbetting, even dear old LoCo HoCo. Fair enough, they are all classics. But Mahmoud is in a different class, pure and simple.

World's Foremost Expert in Price Behaviour? OK, so maybe he's not. But World's Foremost Expert in Generating Trading-Related Lulz? That's a claim I'd be prepared to agree with.

Thanks Mike.

 

[pboyles]

I find it quite interesting that people who knew so little that they fell for this nonsense, believed that they knew enough to start questioning the method after only a few months !

The easiest thing to have done would have been to allow the turtles some lattitude, therefore allowing him to place the blame for failure directly on the individual for not following the method.

I suppose you have to ask the question, did Mr Baghdady stick to his method due to cast iron disipline and self belief in his method, or simply due to ego ?

Its also quite interesting that the turtles became so emotionally attatched to the outcome of the trades so quickly, particularly when trading someone elses money, although I do understand they'd be quite keen to establish that the method actually worked.

The question you ask about the origin of the funds being traded is a good one. Even funded at 20% of the original promised amount, thats still 250-300K, an amount quite possibly generated from the training traders business. If thats true the situation would be rather obscene.

They were probably given unreasonable expectations, this time next year Rodney type stuff. Obviously that would have quickly unravelled after a few months.

I think when the source of the funding is explained you may need to find a stronger word than obscene.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

First Gazette is recorded against MBTWP Ltd which is a new name for Training Traders. I'm also slightly confused with all the name changes and I suspect CH perhaps hasn't recorded everything correctly.

ok, cheers for that

after a bit more research i've come up with the following -



MBTWP LIMITED (Active - Proposal to Strike off as of 23 Mar 12)
Previous Company Names
03/01/2012
TRAINING TRADERS LIMITED

02/08/2011
TT TRAINING TRADERS LIMITED

09/11/2010
TT TRADING TRADERS LIMITED


MBTT LTD (Dissolved 27/12/2011)
Previous Company Names

15/10/2010
TRAINING TRADERS LIMITED


TMZF LTD (Active)
Previous Company Names

14/03/2012
TRAINING TRADERS LIMITED

03/01/2012
SPYGLASS TRADING SOLUTIONS LIMITED

so spyglass changed into trading traders, which in turn changed into tmzf. but surely that can't be right because trading traders changed to mbtwp? the soon to be struck off mbtwp and the dissolved mbtt? both of those were formally named as training traders. i don't understand how trading traders has a proposal to strike off when it's already been dissolved previously, but would appear to be continueing on regardless under the guise of tmzf. is this for real? or my poor research?

 

[pboyles]

That's what the records show. I think there is a mistake in CH records, as you say it doesn't add up unless they had two companies with the same name which, in theory at least, should be impossible. Even then they would have different company numbers.

 

[Malcolm Steel]

Firstly I would like to thank Merkozy, someone who as actually done the course to take the time to post a fair and objective comment. Finally someone who is not hiding behind an anonymous name making ungrounded claims suggesting they know people who know things.

I stopped posting due to the ridiculous nature of many of the posts and the ungrounded claims and accusations that were being made. A simple claim of Mike Baghdady has been seen in New York could not be backed up. In addition the claims by Digbyarbuthnot an pipsplease of doing no wrong, claiming to have apologized when they refused to do so, claiming they had had not posts edited by moderators for content or removed, yet I clearly proved them wrong. There have been a great number of posts implying wrong doing based on ungrounded claims backed up with vicious personal attacks. There have been a few valid points worthy of discussion, but the hatred and vicious attacks have made an objective discussion impossible.

Regarding the software, the software is provided for a month as part of the course to allow people time to try it out and use in conjunction with the course material. The software can be bought monthly or for a lifetime.

The software is not just the Market site which was mentioned. If you look closely at PBoyles screenshot you will see it does not provide the same result as the Marketside indicator. The market side is just a small part of the software. There have been a number of attempts to copy and replicate the software in the past which have not succeeded. Perhaps PBoyles can get his large IT department to replicate the Radar screen in MT4 . Copying other company’s software is easy, coming up with the initial idea and design is much harder.

I am sure there will be a number of attacks on what I have just said and a number of personal attacks on me following this post. Don’t expect me to react or respond.

 

[pboyles]

Radar screen is a standard feature of Tradestation and no doubt could be created in MT4. The market side is clearly a free indicator called Parabolic SAR, there are various settings that can be changed. Go ahead and post a recent chart and I will match it, for free. You didn't invent it, you just imported it into a group of indicators. Like I said go ahead and post a recent chart.

 

[the hare]

Like I said go ahead and post a recent chart.

Failure to do that would clearly show they have something to hide.

Lets see them post a chart.

 

[Malcolm Steel]

Radar screen is a standard feature of Tradestation and no doubt could be created in MT4.

The Radar or market scanner display is a built in feature of TradeStation and Multicharts, but the indicators that we provide inside are not a standard feature.
Just to be clear when I said 'Radar' I referred to the indicators inside the Radar window.

Come on Peter, you are smart enough to realise why the was on the end of the line about Radar in MT4. It is possible to create a Radar type window in MT4 or your can link the data to a spreadsheet.

The market side is clearly a free indicator called Parabolic SAR, there are various settings that can be changed. Go ahead and post a recent chart and I will match it, for free. You didn't invent it, you just imported it into a group of indicators. Like I said go ahead and post a recent chart.

You yourself already posted a chart so you already have something to try and match.

 

[The Leopard]

I am sure there will be a number of attacks on what I have just said and a number of personal attacks on me following this post. Don’t expect me to react or respond.

Don't worry, expectations of you are extremely low.

Any chance of actually addressing the large number of questions outstanding?

Could you also confirm whether or not the turtles are still trading? And if not, why did it collapse so quickly when they were under the tutelage of a world champion and the foremost expert on price behaviour?

And how are the hedge fund plans coming along? Mike did say that the turtles were going to be the company's new hedge fund managers, didn't he?

 

[pboyles]

The Radar or market scanner display is a built in feature of TradeStation and Multicharts, but the indicators that we provide inside are not a standard feature.
Just to be clear when I said 'Radar' I referred to the indicators inside the Radar window.

Come on Peter, you are smart enough to realise why the was on the end of the line about Radar in MT4. It is possible to create a Radar type window in MT4 or your can link the data to a spreadsheet.



You yourself already posted a chart so you already have something to try and match.

The resolution is insufficient in the screen grab to match the settings exactly. If you could post a zoomed in screen shot from last week that would be great.

By the way I thought it didn't use indicators,because they don't work. I believe that's what Mahmoud said.