Is democracy stuffed ?

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
When you look at the financial crises over the last decade you may well ask why are most of the democratic Governments deeply in debt ? Is this a systemic failure of a dud system ? The champion of democracy, the USA, is $17 trillion in debt.

The people elect politicians on promises, some of which are kept but many gloss over the real pitfalls. The rosy picture painted by politicians at election time is rarely even near the " truth ".

So a politicl party is elected usually on false promises in their manifestos. The party that promises the biggest hand-outs is likely to get elected. When the situation calls for living within our means then they are unlikely to get elected. Difficult decisions like the EU's problems are kicked into the long grass for someone in the future to sort out.

Another weakness of a democracy is that agendas are worked out seperately, say in a 2 party system and therefore clash. So as Left/Right Govts come and go then different policies will cause large changes in education, health, policing etc. etc. when what they really need is one sound decision and then little change for many years, to get up and running.

Is democracy, a nice sounding idea, really not practical as a system to provide a sound economy etc. ?
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
Where you see failure, there is in fact great success. All that money disappearing disappeared to where ? So long as some people gain greatly from it all, the situation will continue to recur. Given that they have just finished cleaning us out, we should be good for another 10-15 years until the bag of tricks comes out to play once again. It's symptomatic of capitalism, and short-termism of democracy. Where democracies can plan 5-10 years ahead, countries like China can plan 30 to 50 years ahead. This is why people point and laugh at the foolish Chinese for building entirely unoccupied cities, while the Chinese busy themselves thinking how those cities will be used in 20-30 years time. The trajectory of the econo-political contest doesn't favour the myopic short-term'ers.
 
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Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,234
No, it is not stuffed, but the electorate needs to take its finger out and decide who they want in. With a 40% turnout at the polls do you think that a nation is going to get the best leaders? No way. All that shows is a lack of interest.

In Spain, elections are on a Sunday and people are more interested in getting to the beach and, in UK, people are given time off to vote during the working week. However, in both cases, turnout is, normally, very low. What's the matter, then?

People, in both countries, are loyal to party, no matter what their opinions may be about the quality of the leaders. That said, though, more than half can't be bothered to vote. The power of government is given by quite a small percentage and this surprises me because it has happened all through my lifetime.

Franco, for example, has been dead since 1975. One would think that Spaniards would be out in force, to make sure that they never get a dictator again. Does not seem to be the case, though.

Would you believe that Cataluña, faced with the fact that its leaders may decide to break away from Spain, had a similar turnout last November? This, to me, is of the utmost imprtance, but it seems that it will be decided by a minority of the population.
 
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Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
Surely the democracies in the West should be more aware of the BRICS countries fast catching up. General Motors survived the present charge with the help of taxpayer's bailouts but can the Govt keep doing this ? I think not.
China is a good example of a 1 party State. It is now number 2 manufacturer even after Mao's revolutions. The competition between manufacturing nations has already started. The Western democracies have huge numbers of unemployed and benefit claimants plus the retired. I doubt that they can survive the competition with these added burdens. Will they be principled and collapse or ...........what.
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
China is a good example of a 1 party State. It is now number 2 manufacturer even after Mao's revolutions.

I believe China currently is the largest industrial output country in the world. This is why they are building those empty cities in anticipation of all their peasants becoming factory workers.


Will they be principled and collapse or ...........what.

Could be worth a few wars. When things look desperate dog will eat dog.
 

neil

Legendary member
5,167 748
No, it is not stuffed, but the electorate needs to take its finger out and decide who they want in. With a 40% turnout at the polls do you think that a nation is going to get the best leaders? No way. All that shows is a lack of interest.

In Spain, elections are on a Sunday and people are more interested in getting to the beach and, in UK, people are given time off to vote during the working week. However, in both cases, turnout is, normally, very low. What's the matter, then?

People, in both countries, are loyal to party, no matter what their opinions may be about the quality of the leaders. That said, though, more than half can't be bothered to vote. The power of government is given by quite a small percentage and this surprises me because it has happened all through my lifetime.

Franco, for example, has been dead since 1975. One would think that Spaniards would be out in force, to make sure that they never get a dictator again. Does not seem to be the case, though.

Would you believe that Cataluña, faced with the fact that its leaders may decide to break away from Spain, had a similar turnout last November? This, to me, is of the utmost imprtance, but it seems that it will be decided by a minority of the population.

Was it Australia that insists all its' citizens vote upon pain of a fine?
Maybe we should (and Spain?) adopt that system?
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
Was it Australia that insists all its' citizens vote upon pain of a fine?
Maybe we should (and Spain?) adopt that system?

I don't think that is too much of a problem. The worrying thing to me is the low calibre people standing. Some will get elected. The majority of the people vote for the party machine. They usually know very little of the actual candidate.

Politics is about the only profession that doesn't need any qualifications, track record or obvious skills. The recent expenses scandal has shown to the world what a lot of rascals about half of them are.

Not many Govts last 2 terms or more, so there is little continuity. The opposition then get elected and many of the previous policies are abandoned. So the ship of state weaves a sort of zig zag course to a middling muddle. I mean - hopeless or what ?
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
If you think democracy can be somehow parachuted into 3rd world countries then take a look at Iraq/Afghanistan and many African countries - no chance.
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
I see France is suffering under more socialist dogma.
Where as in Spain the extremists are targetting the houses of ministers, copying what they did in Argentina. Is this what democracy is coming to ?

About time the academics and politicians called it - a mistake. Democratus was a nutty ole Greek. It doesn't work !! Unfortunately. The human elements fail. The Syrian chaos/bloodshed is a result of polarising 2 sides. Then a fight to the finish.

About time the USA realized democracy is really not for many 3rd world countries yet, or even ever.
 
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ffsear

Senior member
2,243 490
We don't live in a democracy! Never have, never will! Just do what you can to support yourself and your family under the current system, and make sure you have a chair when the music stops!

There's a storm coming people!
 
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kimo'sabby

Experienced member
1,622 287
When you look at the financial crises over the last decade you may well ask why are most of the democratic Governments deeply in debt ? Is this a systemic failure of a dud system ? The champion of democracy, the USA, is $17 trillion in debt.

The people elect politicians on promises, some of which are kept but many gloss over the real pitfalls. The rosy picture painted by politicians at election time is rarely even near the " truth ".

So a politicl party is elected usually on false promises in their manifestos. The party that promises the biggest hand-outs is likely to get elected. When the situation calls for living within our means then they are unlikely to get elected. Difficult decisions like the EU's problems are kicked into the long grass for someone in the future to sort out.

Another weakness of a democracy is that agendas are worked out seperately, say in a 2 party system and therefore clash. So as Left/Right Govts come and go then different policies will cause large changes in education, health, policing etc. etc. when what they really need is one sound decision and then little change for many years, to get up and running.

Is democracy, a nice sounding idea, really not practical as a system to provide a sound economy etc. ?


you can't take history and box it off in one post. Here's a question for you: What does it take for a country to have an industrial revolution?
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
you can't take history and box it off in one post. Here's a question for you: What does it take for a country to have an industrial revolution?

Certainly not democracy as China has showed.
The UK one was financed by the UK.
A new emerging industrial country has to compete with the old stagers by competitive manufactures and out doing others in similiar products.
 

trendie

Legendary member
6,841 1,400
I dont think people are well informed enough to make decisions.

Democracy is the tyranny of the mediocre. (I read that somewhere. Wish I'd thought of it)
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
I dont think people are well informed enough to make decisions.

Democracy is the tyranny of the mediocre. (I read that somewhere. Wish I'd thought of it)

About right.
Not many work selflessly for the common good these days.
 
 
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