Democracy. Is it worth defending ?

[dbphoenix]

we have to start slow. Let the systems only deal with things related to numbers with bureaucrats still doing their inefficient tasks. Then it can go on to foreign policy with game theory algos. Matter of fact the nash equilibrium can be used in almost every department education, law, policing etc.
It's only a matter of time before some billionaire gets this idea and buys an island and implements this system. The terminators, at least the good can come after centuries of trial and error.

I saw that movie.

It didn't end well.

 

[Atilla]

I saw that movie.

It didn't end well.

 

[Pat494]

There is an alternative. Artificial intelligence. Get the human behavior out of government and let the computer decide budget, foreign policy, healthcare etc.
The bureaucrats can handle holiday celebrations. It sounds crazy at first but when you really think about it democracy is outdated and we have all these super computers not doing anything except trying to design weapons and spy on other nations.

AI is still vastly over rated imho. Clearly specified tasks are done quickly but as for thinking - not really and probably just as well.

 

[piphoe]

if we had it worth defending. we haven't had democracy for 1 hundred yrs!

 

[piphoe]

In the US we have the "Constitution" and the founding "Fathers".

They drafted one hella of Constitution! I'll tell you, the US became leader of free World in a few hundred yrs! that's truly remarkable. THATS REMARKABLE. WORTHY OF NOTICE. i mean THEY got it it right! MOSTLY. close enough. till now.

times are changing, and no "truths" (or few) remain unchanged. we have had an explosion of information, communication and more "truth" just in last 30 yrs.

Nothing remains unchanged, nothing remains unrevised, and nothing should.

Morals, ethics, capitalism, democracy SCIENCE evolve over time & need, they are not writ in stone. :|

 

[piphoe]

How did the US become the preeminent power of the World in a mere few hundred yrs?

I can't fathom that, beyond comprehension given humans on this Earth 1000's yrs earlier, anyone have an idea?

i guesss we got a lot righter than most.

 

[Atilla]

How did the US become the preeminent power of the World in a mere few hundred yrs?

I can't fathom that, beyond comprehension given humans on this Earth 1000's yrs earlier, anyone have an idea?

i guesss we got a lot righter than most.

England built the USA old boy.

Great plains made available by the steam train, invented and financed by the British and built by Chinese labour.

Key factors of production are Land, Labour and Kapital. US had the fertile land, Chinese and migrants provided the Labour and UK provided the Kapital and hey presto.

Then we had the Boston Tea Party.

Actually, you had the party we got the kick in the teeth.

 

[piphoe]

England built the USA old boy.

Great plains made available by the steam train, invented and financed by the British and built by Chinese labour.

Key factors of production are Land, Labour and Kapital. US had the fertile land, Chinese and migrants provided the Labour and UK provided the Kapital and hey presto.

Then we had the Boston Tea Party.

Actually, you had the party we got the kick in the teeth.

ok, you laid some track. 300 yrs ago what else you got over the last few hundred yrs that made America great

 

[piphoe]

A few feet of railroad track is why America rose to preeminent power,

thx for the few miles of trak, but c'mon

the USA was founded by a few really smart people, but more than that ETHICAL peeps.

Philosophers, ie smart people that think for a living

 

[Atilla]

A few feet of railroad track is why America rose to preeminent power,

thx for the few miles of trak, but c'mon

the USA was founded by a few really smart people, but more than that ETHICAL peeps.

Well there is more....

There was WW1 & WW2.

Usually, countries that win or help others fight make a big pile of money.

Loss of British and European colonies were gained by the US who took over influence and interest. ie the Middle East. Lawrence of Arabia, kicked the Ottomans out and then British were sidelined by the yanks.

It's all about energy, first steam then oil. Cheap oil. Cheep Cheap oil. When you got a big country like the US of A and big roads and big cars you need cheep oil.

 

[Atilla]

Did I forget to mention the dollar standard.

21 Trillion dollars printed out of thin air can buy you a lot of grandeur.


:idea:

 

[piphoe]

Did I forget to mention the dollar standard.

21 Trillion dollars printed out of thin air can buy you a lot of grandeur.


:idea:

"printed out of thin air", what do you mean by this?

you can't run a govt or a humane society which should be the same like a business.

the sole purpose of a bis is to make a profit. why should any govt aim to make a profit???

toward what end????

Are you a libertarian?

ANY GOVT THAT MAKES PROFIT i am really suspicious of

 

[dbphoenix]

England built the USA old boy.

Great plains made available by the steam train, invented and financed by the British and built by Chinese labour.

Key factors of production are Land, Labour and Kapital. US had the fertile land, Chinese and migrants provided the Labour and UK provided the Kapital and hey presto.

Then we had the Boston Tea Party.

Actually, you had the party we got the kick in the teeth.

Well, if George hadn't been so short-sighted.

 

[dbphoenix]

A few feet of railroad track is why America rose to preeminent power,

thx for the few miles of trak, but c'mon

the USA was founded by a few really smart people, but more than that ETHICAL peeps.

Philosophers, ie smart people that think for a living

You may want to look at how many of the Founding Fathers were involved in slave trading.

Beyond that, I don't know that I'd call Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, Mellon, etc "ethical".

 

[dbphoenix]

"printed out of thin air", what do you mean by this?

you can't run a govt or a humane society which should be the same like a business.

the sole purpose of a bis is to make a profit. why should any govt aim to make a profit???

To avoid servicing debt?

 

[piphoe]

Beyond that, I don't know that I'd call Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, Mellon, etc "ethical".

expound on this a bit. republicans believe anything capitalism is ethical. i don't share that belief.

 

[dbphoenix]

Beyond that, I don't know that I'd call Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, Mellon, etc "ethical".

expound on this a bit. republicans believe anything capitalism is ethical. i don't share that belief.

Well, to begin with, their treatment of the Indians in order to lay rails and drill for oil. Then one could look at wages and safety. Tons of information via Google.

 

[piphoe]

To avoid servicing debt?

why should any govt run on a surplus or attempt to achieve the same at the expense of its citizens at the time, or at the expense of humanity where the vicissitudes of life require?

in other words, sh^t happens, and i want my govt to have my my back. thats what society is for

 

[piphoe]

Well, to begin with, their treatment of the Indians in order to lay rails and drill for oil. Then one could look at wages and safety. Tons of information via Google.

the exploitation of native indians I abhor.

doesn't explain the rapid rise of US as a power in a mere fee hundred yrs.

the US is the PREEMINENT POWER in the WORLD in a mere 200yrs!

has little do with rails

 

[dbphoenix]

why should any govt run on a surplus or attempt to achieve the same at the expense of its citizens at the time, or at the expense of humanity where the vicissitudes of life require?

in other words, sh^t happens, and i want my govt to have my my back. thats what society is for

Because servicing that debt takes a great deal of money, money that would otherwise be put to the uses which you value.