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Welcome to the Darwinex Forums, these forums are member-run and managed by CavaliereVerde. Member-run forum rules may differ from the site guidelines.
CavaliereVerde
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@IvanaO welcome to our forum! 
The minimum investment on a Darwin is 200 and you can leverage your investment at x3.
I suggest you to stay on demo investing for at least 6 months.
In the meantime you can study everything for at least 100 hours.
Without it your probability to make money is 0.
The minimum investment on a Darwin is 200 and you can leverage your investment at x3.
I suggest you to stay on demo investing for at least 6 months.
In the meantime you can study everything for at least 100 hours.
Without it your probability to make money is 0.
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Thank you for reply, but I don't understand what do I need to study. If I invest Money don't I just need to choose trader that will work with my money?@IvanaO welcome to our forum!
The minimum investment on a Darwin is 200 and you can leverage your investment at x3.
I suggest you to stay on demo investing for at least 6 months.
In the meantime you can study everything for at least 100 hours.
Without it your probability to make money is 0.
CavaliereVerde
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Sounds easy right?
The main point is that past performance is not an indication of future results.
How do you chose the "right" traders?
Every darwin has at least one hundred different numbers/statistics.
Do you know their meaning?
I know it and that is only the beginning, you will need at least 20 hours to study the fundamentals of darwins.
Do you have any previous experience with copytrading/social trading?
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Yes I am using copy fx. I just started to follow the first 5 traders on ranking.
CavaliereVerde
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Every social trading broker has attractive trackrecords to show to bait copiers/investors.
I suggest you to stay in demo and study the basics of trading even if you don't plan to trade but to invest/follow other traders.
In the meantime you can do some research about :
I suggest you to stay in demo and study the basics of trading even if you don't plan to trade but to invest/follow other traders.
In the meantime you can do some research about :
- infinite monkeys theory
- survivorship bias
- martingale
IlIlIlIlI
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I can also agree with this.
IMO that's not necessary to understand the investable attributes.
The investable attributes are just attributes but don't help to make money, they can help to avoid losses.
What's necessary:
- to learn to know the platform
- to learn about some attributes
- to learn about the usage of filters, lists etc.
- to develop a strategy including take profit and stop loss levels
- to test that strategy on a demo portfolio
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CavaliereVerde
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The 3 points I suggested are not specific for Darwinex.
Those are to understand why attractive trackrecords are so easy to find while profitable investors are almost impossible to find.
I am not saying that every number you find on Darwinex is important to invest but to understand what is important you have to know everything.
Those are to understand why attractive trackrecords are so easy to find while profitable investors are almost impossible to find.
I am not saying that every number you find on Darwinex is important to invest but to understand what is important you have to know everything.
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IlIlIlIlI
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There are profitable investors (including my portfolio which is special) but usually they don't publish their portfolio and their rules.
Also their profit was made in the past and there are no instructions to continue that for the future.
CavaliereVerde
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It is just like trading, people share positive results and hide negative ones.
Very few traders share thier trackrecord, only the ones with a positive result.
The same with investors.
There were at least 5 people sharing positive investing results in old community, when results turned to negative no more updates.
If intellectual property were the issue they would share only the result without the recipe.
Very few traders share thier trackrecord, only the ones with a positive result.
The same with investors.
There were at least 5 people sharing positive investing results in old community, when results turned to negative no more updates.
If intellectual property were the issue they would share only the result without the recipe.
Forexintradiadarwin
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My Critical and Controversial Opinion:
This conversation among Cavaliere, IIIIIIIII, and IvanaO is the main problem to attract investors that are not traders.
An investor is someone who has some spare money ready to put on a profitable asset. So, basically an investor is not a trader and he/she shouldn't have to be one. If you are not a trader and familiar with Darwinex platform and attributes, it is way complicated to understand how investing on darwins works.
The typical investor just want to see a list of darwins with the basic information and pick some based on past results (this is the most important thing), length of track record, reasonable risk (most people measure it checking the draw down) and a nice curve. It can take just some minutes to analyze these and make an investment decision.
It is same than stocks, you see how well is Apple or Tesla and you put your money based on past results and sales...maybe you check some other things, but most people have an idea where they are putting their money at.
If Darwinex had 100 darwins showing profits consistently they could list them without so much hassle for the investors. I don't know (I don't spend time checking other brokers platforms) what others are doing, but this darwin project won't go long until you have a good amount of stars making money for investors consistently.
People know Apple, real estate, bonds, or gold, people is familiar with those (lot of bad information on those too anyway, most people believe that they know, but they are misguided with a lot of biased and manipulated information coming from campaigns of marketing, governments, and corporations hidden interests). But people think they are experts, it is like talking about football, everyone is an expert coach!
But, who knows darwins? Nobody. So, marketing is done from mouth to mouth...are you recommending your parents, family and friends to invest in darwins? NOP, right? You know they will probably lose money and you don't want that...so, the mouth to mouth can't work well at least you can recommend it with confidence.
Another BIG problem is most people see trading or investing in trading strategies as a fast way to make money. So, most of investors put money today and take the money out in the first strategy hiccup. If there are not fast return, investors don't last.
Solutions? I don't have them, not short term, but going over these problems and addressing them one by one should be a mid-long term solution.
The first thing is having profitable strategies, and the second (as important as the first one) is making it WAY EASIER for investors.
PS: I know this is very controversial opinion, but removing VAR or at least going back to the past (20% VAR) will show way better results for many darwins (I know there will be many crashes too, but usually the ones that will crash they would crash sooner or later anyway). The traders with an edge will be always the winners, and these will shine way more with a higher VAR. Also, they will make more money on their own equity, because now many of them are trading for the darwin only with all the limitations because the VAR.
Babysitting investors and traders is not the solution, people want to make it big...even if they crash in the way to it (they are failing now anyway, both traders and investors...so it is nothing to lose).
When I read "CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. 77% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. You should consider whether you understand how CFDs work and whether you can afford to take the high risk of losing your money". I think, so I can lose all my money and consequently I can also make a lot of money...but with the current VAR it is just a lie. Trying to protect investors and traders is making impossible to make it BIG...the most probably is that you bleed out little by little during months or years.
MY2CENTS
This conversation among Cavaliere, IIIIIIIII, and IvanaO is the main problem to attract investors that are not traders.
An investor is someone who has some spare money ready to put on a profitable asset. So, basically an investor is not a trader and he/she shouldn't have to be one. If you are not a trader and familiar with Darwinex platform and attributes, it is way complicated to understand how investing on darwins works.
The typical investor just want to see a list of darwins with the basic information and pick some based on past results (this is the most important thing), length of track record, reasonable risk (most people measure it checking the draw down) and a nice curve. It can take just some minutes to analyze these and make an investment decision.
It is same than stocks, you see how well is Apple or Tesla and you put your money based on past results and sales...maybe you check some other things, but most people have an idea where they are putting their money at.
If Darwinex had 100 darwins showing profits consistently they could list them without so much hassle for the investors. I don't know (I don't spend time checking other brokers platforms) what others are doing, but this darwin project won't go long until you have a good amount of stars making money for investors consistently.
People know Apple, real estate, bonds, or gold, people is familiar with those (lot of bad information on those too anyway, most people believe that they know, but they are misguided with a lot of biased and manipulated information coming from campaigns of marketing, governments, and corporations hidden interests). But people think they are experts, it is like talking about football, everyone is an expert coach!
But, who knows darwins? Nobody. So, marketing is done from mouth to mouth...are you recommending your parents, family and friends to invest in darwins? NOP, right? You know they will probably lose money and you don't want that...so, the mouth to mouth can't work well at least you can recommend it with confidence.
Another BIG problem is most people see trading or investing in trading strategies as a fast way to make money. So, most of investors put money today and take the money out in the first strategy hiccup. If there are not fast return, investors don't last.
Solutions? I don't have them, not short term, but going over these problems and addressing them one by one should be a mid-long term solution.
The first thing is having profitable strategies, and the second (as important as the first one) is making it WAY EASIER for investors.
PS: I know this is very controversial opinion, but removing VAR or at least going back to the past (20% VAR) will show way better results for many darwins (I know there will be many crashes too, but usually the ones that will crash they would crash sooner or later anyway). The traders with an edge will be always the winners, and these will shine way more with a higher VAR. Also, they will make more money on their own equity, because now many of them are trading for the darwin only with all the limitations because the VAR.
Babysitting investors and traders is not the solution, people want to make it big...even if they crash in the way to it (they are failing now anyway, both traders and investors...so it is nothing to lose).
When I read "CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. 77% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. You should consider whether you understand how CFDs work and whether you can afford to take the high risk of losing your money". I think, so I can lose all my money and consequently I can also make a lot of money...but with the current VAR it is just a lie. Trying to protect investors and traders is making impossible to make it BIG...the most probably is that you bleed out little by little during months or years.
MY2CENTS
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morehastelessspeed
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The VaR risk manager is the best thing in the investors' side of Darwinex, particularly for unexperienced investors who are not also traders with Darwinex or with other brokers.
Forexintradiadarwin
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While the VAR could actually protect naive or unexperienced investors (nothing can prevent them from losing anyway), it is also potentially killing good traders from making more profits too and with that the possibility of bringing to Darwinex many more investors attracted by better track records an more investable darwins. Regardless other good traders that are not attracted with the idea of these limitations and look for other brokers who offer them better trading conditions and more potential investors.
Since VAR started to decrease from 20% to the current 6.5% the returns of darwins (and I am talking about the top darwins) have been decreasing too.
It is not a lower VAR what is going to stop the losses of naive, unexperienced and "get rich fast" kind of investors, it is experience, knowledge and common sense together with a easier to understand platform and lesser complicated rules.
It is truth, investors that are not traders and/or are not trading in Darwinex need a training curse (absolutely ridiculous) to understand how to invest in Darwins, that is another big challenge Darwinex has to solve in order to bring more investors.
I believe this kind of investments are not for everyone, because this is a high risk market, so putting a straitjacket to traders to prevent naive investors not to lose money is not the solution...it is like giving Messi an orange instead a football or The Beatles plastic toy guitars to play...
You have to give traders the best trading conditions and environment, not limiting them.
A real trader should trade for its own trader account, not for investors. Investors put their money on a good track record trusting the ability of the trader to provide them juice returns. If you buy a property, buy stocks, or bonds is because you think that putting your money on their hands will give you back more money, but you can lose if things don't go your way...and there is not a VAR to protect you.
Cutting trader wings is killing the trader skills and ability to provide higher returns to investors...Natural selection put everyone on its right place...limiting the trading will convert the best traders in average traders and the losers will be losers anyway (at least the improve their skills).
Companies like FTMO or The5ers (I don't recommend or backup any of them, I am just saying the options, so watch out) realized the value of having good traders giving them more profit opportunities. In Darwinex there are only a few professional traders (that's a fact). If a broker doesn't have traders making a living....they will flee sooner or later, and investors will fly with them.
CavaliereVerde
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We have to make a distinction.
Risk manager protects investors from gamblers going all-in.
Low VAR darwins are good for darwinex to extend the lifespan of losing investors.
More than 95% of investors lose money, it was so at var 20% in 2016, at var 10% in2017 and now at var 3.25-6.5%.
The more they last the longer Darwinex will pocket the management fee.
Risk manager protects investors from gamblers going all-in.
Low VAR darwins are good for darwinex to extend the lifespan of losing investors.
More than 95% of investors lose money, it was so at var 20% in 2016, at var 10% in2017 and now at var 3.25-6.5%.
The more they last the longer Darwinex will pocket the management fee.
CavaliereVerde
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BTW there are already 3 other discussion about VAR and darwinex investing conditions.
I would like to expand about "investing should be easy".
Is investing stocks easy?
Do you think someone that analyzed Apple or Tesla for 5 minutes will make money?
I am 100% sure he would sell after the first negative month.
Buffett says you should think to buy the entire company.
Would you buy an entire company after a 5 minute analysis?
I would like to expand about "investing should be easy".
Is investing stocks easy?
Do you think someone that analyzed Apple or Tesla for 5 minutes will make money?
I am 100% sure he would sell after the first negative month.
Buffett says you should think to buy the entire company.
Would you buy an entire company after a 5 minute analysis?
Forexintradiadarwin
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What is better, protect naive or unexperienced investors (usually these are the kind of make rich fast kind of investors and they abandon the darwin at first drawdown). They are not the kind of investors Darwinex should aim to. Or give the traders more margin to trade the way they would do for their own accounts? The good traders would shine way more.
Exactly!
Yes, the difference is that the top traders in 2016 made way better returns than now. On those times you could se many (a good amount) of darwins averaging +30% annually. Now whose do +10-15% are being considered stars...So, five years ago if you invest in good darwins you made a good return as an investor, nowadays...you can tell me, you know better what is going on.
Forexintradiadarwin
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For the "average Joe" the decision to invest in Apple or Tesla is not a question of analysis, but the lack of money.
Nobody know you or me, everybody know Apple or the big companies, otherwise if easy to get information and buy. It is way complicated to invest in a Darwin, because nobody know us and we are not public. There is not comparison.
Btw...in my opinion it doesn't make sense to buy shares of a big company and sell them at first hiccup. It is the only way to be certain of losing money, 100% guaranteed.
CavaliereVerde
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Exact information about traders is lacking.
There are interviews but nothing comparable to what you can find about stocks and companies.
This is the reason you should know everything the main site provides you.
It is like the balance sheet for a stock.
Investing looking only to return and DD is like buying a house looking only to 2 pictures: the front and the back.
About the need to be a trader it is the same with stocks.
Many ex entrepreneurs and ex CEOs are good investors because they know how to spot good businesses.
There are interviews but nothing comparable to what you can find about stocks and companies.
This is the reason you should know everything the main site provides you.
It is like the balance sheet for a stock.
Investing looking only to return and DD is like buying a house looking only to 2 pictures: the front and the back.
About the need to be a trader it is the same with stocks.
Many ex entrepreneurs and ex CEOs are good investors because they know how to spot good businesses.
