Gambler, Trader, Speculator or Investor

[Hotch]

No it is impossible , they have table limits "money management" . Take ladbrokes as an example they r here 120 years ...

Surely that would come under the bit about assuming they let him stay, he could take some off, start again etc.

Timsk, I saw you acknowledged it, but only in the short term, don't think a billion coin flips is short term, that's getting on for 32 years with one flip a second.

 

[timsk]

Timsk, I saw you acknowledged it, but only in the short term, don't think a billion coin flips is short term, that's getting on for 32 years with one flip a second.

Hi Hotch,
Okay, I'll stand down and acknowledge that, technically, you and Emini-mouse are correct.
However, my guess is that the mathematical probability of Emini being in profit and me registering a loss after a billion tosses is smaller than the probability of the sun exploding and wiping out mother earth before I've finished typing this post. In other words, it's really quite small.

Tim.
PS. As of now, manhood duly returned to its hanger and the shutters closed!

 

[Cable Sal]

The odd one out is the Investor, because he/she does not place their principal at risk.

The others are all the same. We could add the venerable term Stock Operator but nobody uses that any more.

Getting back to the original point...

Motive is key. Gamblers, traders and speculators all put their principal at high risk in the uncertain hope of making extra money. Investors put their principal at low risk in order to protect it from certain deterioration due to inflation / bank charges etc.

Personally I don't see how anything stock-market based can be an investment - including pension schemes.

The difference between a gambler, trader and speculator? Semantics. Gambler = loser, trader = professional, speculator = rich already.

I quite enjoy telling people that I'm learning to gamble on the stock market and that I have a "method" - and watch them take two steps backwards like it might be catching.

However, any business is a gamble; be it running a casino or a recruitment agency, a factory or an ISP. Every time you sign a lease, every bit of equipment you buy, every employee you hire - every action requires a cost to be risked, every decision is a measured gamble of failure versus reward.

My personal differentiator between a pure-gamble, a speculation-gamble and a trade-gamble is the level of calculated risk versus reward. Personally, I define a pure-gamble as a calculated zero or less chance of gain; a speculation-gamble as an unknown or incalculable chance of gain; and a trade-gamble as a calculated greater than zero chance of gain.

No manhood to wave, and my balls are made of steel

Sal

 

[Splitlink]

Getting back to the original point...

Motive is key. Gamblers, traders and speculators all put their principal at high risk in the uncertain hope of making extra money. Investors put their principal at low risk in order to protect it from certain deterioration due to inflation / bank charges etc.

Personally I don't see how anything stock-market based can be an investment - including pension schemes.

The difference between a gambler, trader and speculator? Semantics. Gambler = loser, trader = professional, speculator = rich already.

I quite enjoy telling people that I'm learning to gamble on the stock market and that I have a "method" - and watch them take two steps backwards like it might be catching.

However, any business is a gamble; be it running a casino or a recruitment agency, a factory or an ISP. Every time you sign a lease, every bit of equipment you buy, every employee you hire - every action requires a cost to be risked, every decision is a measured gamble of failure versus reward.

My personal differentiator between a pure-gamble, a speculation-gamble and a trade-gamble is the level of calculated risk versus reward. Personally, I define a pure-gamble as a calculated zero or less chance of gain; a speculation-gamble as an unknown or incalculable chance of gain; and a trade-gamble as a calculated greater than zero chance of gain.

No manhood to wave, and my balls are made of steel

Sal

Our opinions coincide as far as "any business is a gamble" is comcerned and not just business but all walks of life.

 

[meanreversion]

Lambs like to gamble.

 

[Emini-mouse]

Lambs like to gamble.

yes some grow up to return bale after bale of wool

 

[meanreversion]

Sorry, typo, lambs like to gambol.

 

[Hotch]

As of now, manhood duly returned to its hanger and the shutters closed!

My work here is done (sorry ladies!).

 

[Hilarymannah]

"Gambling" is purely a semantic term that provokes a knee jerk reaction (conditioned response), with the general public, that it's for loosers (akin to junkies).
Just look at it from a degreed risk perspective, as explained by "cable sal",..

Tip: Always reflect on ones reactions to gain a comprehensive evaluation of ones conditionings,..

 

[Liquid validity]

It may well be an exercise in semantics to continue this discussion, but then again...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gambling
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trader
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/speculator
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/investor

Gambling and speculation most accurately fit most traders methodologies.
Gambling is pure chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.

Speculation is the buying of anything that is likely to realise a profit.

I don't see the semantics argument TBH, if you take random entries, ignoring TA, FA, PA and so on then yes its gambling.

If you base your trades on TA, FA and PA then success is likely if your analysis is correct, likely however does not mean guaranteed. There seems to some confusion that gambling is anything that does not have a guaranteed outcome, that isn't the case at all.

About the only event with a guaranteed outcome is saying the sun will rise tomorrow.
Some discussions may well be semantic, I don't think this is one of them though.

EURUSD has resistance at 1.41 right now, does that mean a short is a gamble or a speculative trade? (watch it blast through to 1.415 and blow my argument away

You get the idea though, basically trading in its most rudimentary form is picking direction nothing more, most of us pick the most likely direction, hence its speculation.

 

[Hilarymannah]

Liquid validity,.. "About the only event with a guaranteed outcome is saying the sun will rise tomorrow."

The statement above, is a prime example of the debate in question !
The sun doesn't actually rise, apparently it is the centre of our "solar" system and the planets orbit it.
Most words and concepts are easily ordered to manage perception,..go figure! ; )
Tip: If you can control perception, you can manipulate reality

 

[Liquid validity]

Liquid validity,.. "About the only event with a guaranteed outcome is saying the sun will rise tomorrow."

The statement above, is a prime example of the debate in question !
The sun doesn't actually rise, apparently it is the centre of our "solar" system and the planets orbit it.
Most words and concepts are easily ordered to manage perception,..go figure! ; )
Tip: If you can control perception, you can manipulate reality

So you are saying the earth will continue to orbit the sun, I'm saying in your relative position on earth the sun will rise - same thing. Your argument is semantic, not mine

TBH I'm surprised you didn't pick up on my EURUSD example, its just stagnating ahead of the 10am GMT consumer price index, therefore a gamble until 10am

 

[Hilarymannah]

Liquid,. "Your argument is semantic, not mine"

Exactly the point !,... keep up,.. : )

 

[Liquid validity]

Are we debating something or playing linguistic tennis

Gambling is pure chance.

Speculation has a likely (but not guaranteed outcome).

Agree or disagree?

 

[Hilarymannah]

speculation, investing, and gambling are mere words/concepts to describe three sides of the same coin (and yes, there are three ; )

To argue the degree of heat on a subject is purely "semantic",...

Example: Socialism, Capitalism, and Communism are all one and the same,..but most will argue/debate until the sun stops rising !,...lol

 

[Liquid validity]

You still haven't answered the question, a non committal evasive answer doesn't count
By that rationale, winning and losing are the same, but they are not are they...

The original issue was:

Gambling is pure chance.
Speculation has a likely (but not guaranteed outcome).

Agree or disagree?

 

[Hilarymannah]

winning and losing are both the same in trading,..ask any successful trader !

That's the trick BTW,...and to think,..you've just received the most important/valuable lesson, and you may not even be aware of it,... (Don't mention it ; )

 

[Liquid validity]

No thats money management, which means you have a likely chance of success in the long term - hence trading is speculation not gambling.

 

[Liquid validity]

Anyway, this really is turning into a pointless and truly semantic discussion, so I think thats something we can agree on

 

[Emini-mouse]

You still haven't answered the question, a non committal evasive answer doesn't count
By that rationale, winning and losing are the same, but they are not are they...

The original issue was:

Gambling is pure chance.
Speculation has a likely (but not guaranteed outcome).

Agree or disagree?

I'm with disagree