day trading ES number of trades and methods

[capitols]

Hello,

I am new to this forum, and have been considering different ways of day trading the emini s&p, I have been practicing on a simulator for the last month, and what I have noticed myself doing is over-trading. This has caused me to start thinking about the reasons behind why over 90% of people that day trade the ES lose or will eventually lose. I would like to get anyone else's input in this to help along my understanding. First of all I would like to ask the folks who day trade the ES out there how many trades per day on average are you making, and how many ticks are you looking to grab on each trade, and the # of ticks you are willing to risk? I believe that the reasons why over 90% of people lose is due to our human nature, none of us are perfect, we have a very strong tendancy to see what WE want to see instead of what is really happening. I think we need to understand our own trading shortcomings a lot deeper in order to be more successfull at this game. We are all blinded to some degree by our greed, fear, bias, selfishness, impatience, false reality, and I think all of these contribute to our success or failure at the market. I could go on about the reasons why I think i have been failing, but I would like to hear other people's reasons why we succeed or fail. Here are just a few of mine, overlooking the danger involved and only looking at the opportunity, over trading but not wanting to under trade because of a feeling that i would be missing out, chasing moves because i missed them the first time, trying to catch a move to early because i fear i will miss it but then i realize i jumped in to early and that i could have easily waited a few more minutes and the amount of risk would have been reduced, lack of ability to unselfishly sit and watch the market without having to be invovled.

Thanks..
sam

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Sam,
to cure your over-trading and to instill some discipline & patience into your own trading psyche,
I strongly recommend that you set up the Weekly Pivot lines on your ES chart,
and only trade using only them as Entry Triggers
(and potential Targets and Safety Stops)
(not going to get into the debate here about whether you go Long or Short, R:R etc, that's down to your individual trading plan)

Some weeks, a trigger will get hit early in the week so the lessons learned will how to manage a trade patiently and only get out at a sensible price location, time etc. - do you close at end of the session, do you leave it overnight etc etc

Other weeks, the Weekly triggers might not get hit until late into the week; obviously this emphasises the need for patience in waiting for the right moment to enter without just diving in

good luck, hope it helps, r_e



ps, nice paragraph !
more white space would be appreciated, it encourages readers to actually bother reading what you have written

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Or, if you need to trade every day, use something like Market Profile Value Area -
trade the transit from VAH to VAL
or fade bounces off VAH or VAL
whatever.

The point is, having fixed Entry points, and to a certain extent Exit points, should prevent you from Over-Trading.

Who cares what the Stochastics are supposedly screaming; who cares if the RSI is above blah blah blah.
If price hasn't met your pre-determined Entry criteria, you simply stay out of the market



therein endeth the lesson :smart:

best of luck !

 

[TheDuder_69]

Hi Sam,

I normally take only 2-3 trades per session. Small target: 1,25 pnt (5 ticks), SL=1,5 pnt (6 ticks). I get in early, get out fast and pick the bucks. Yes, I do miss out money like this, as a movement of the ES can be like 5 points (or 100 like last week LOL). The thing is, as newbie I am cautious, and TRY not to be greedy. How to overcome? I set my goal: US$ 100 / session (to be honest, my goal has yet to be determined). After 2 losers, or after I reached my target, I switch off my computer and call it the day. Otherwise I will become greedy and enter a nasty trade and have to give back my flowers to the market. For sure. Because that's how my minds works. Hope this helps.

happy trading!

 

[Renatogrant]

Hi Sam,

I to daytrade the ES.

From my ( steep) learning curve i have learnt not to trade it before it opens in the US at 2.30 and never ever trade the open unless you want to gamble! give it a good hour to see where it settles. I use support & resistance in conjunction with MACD and stochastis as well as volume. I trade off 5min charts and keep an eye on the 15min and hourly charts. You must also be aware of news coming out, data that effects this index etc so i keep an ear and eye on cnbc at the sametime.

Usually i make 2-3 trades per day max with a 6 - 8 point profit target wether long or short depending upon what my setup is telling me. My broker charges me $6 per round turn. I set my stops usually between 3-4 points, sometimes wider, also otherwise you'll get stopped out too soon.

This is a highly volatile time and market to trade. Just what we like! I use ninjatrader as my platform with a zenfire feed, works well for me.

As we speak, just picked up a quick 4 points long as the market heads upto my 1150 resistance. I'll take this thankyou very much! Just to contradict myself as we daytraders always do, i am trading before the US open as i have seen an opportunity but the big moves will come when the US wakes and starts trading. Just dont trade the open, wait until 3pm min, you'll miss a move but hopefully see the retracement and catch it for a good few points. This is what i do and as i say, touch wood, i,m picking up on average about 5 points per day per contract, and i just trade the one contraqct right now.

This market requires you watch it daily. You dont have to sit in front of the screen all day, boring! I usually trade about 3-4 hours a day but have been known to study charts and market flow for days! just watching how things develop.
Not all my trades are winners but expect that, just ensure your winners are better than your losers.

This market can wipe you out quickly so study it, watch, sim trade, place trades as if you were trading live and dont fluctuate. Keep a record and see how you would have done on a daily/weekly base.

All the info provided by the guys/girls in the forum is invaluable, listen & heed. It has helped me 100% otherwise i would still be trying to spreadbet using fake charts and losing my shirt every day!

Best of luck

Renato

 

[timsk]

My broker charges me $6 per round turn.

Hi Renato,
You don't mention who your broker is - but this is a little on the long side IMO. Talk to Markus Zielbauer at Infinity Futures and he'll take a minimum of $1.20 off your comm's per r/t and maybe even a tad more if you mention me! And yes, you can trade using the NJ platform, although their own TransactAT platform is very good and just as quick.

Tim.

 

[pboyles]

Also try Global Futures, $6 is a ripoff nowadays

 

[TheDuder_69]

i'm on US$4 with IB for a round and fine with it as long as I am on SIM .

 

[Renatogrant]

Thankyou guys, I will certainly have a word with Markus at Infinity & Global. I trade with AMP futures right now and there was me thinking this was a fair deal! Advice from you guys is invaluable!

Loving this volatility in ES right now! Thankfully i have learned a lot and my strategy keeps me out of the market more than in these days ( I was over trading like a madman in my earlier days!) I,m finding i,m picking up between 4-5 points per trade which is nice. Dont get me wrong, i have losing trades too but learning to keep these tight. Really like NT. easy platform to use and learn & develop.

 

[Trader333]

Go away you persistently annoying multi-nicking spamming prat No-one is going to click your links because we all know you are an utter moron who keeps coming on here posting nonsensical rubbish

 

[DionysusToast]

Go away you persistently annoying multi-nicking spamming prat No-one is going to click your links because we all know you are an utter moron who keeps coming on here posting nonsensical rubbish

Don't hold back there, Paul... tell him what you REALLY think...

 

[pssonice]

crocodiles like meat. u r meat.this is not a game of give and take !

wrong, wrong, wrong, true,wrong
+ different ways of day trading
+ has caused me to start thinking
+ I believe that the reasons why over 90% of people lose is due to our human nature
+ what is really happening.
+ at this game. "

u r lost If u dont understand what s behind the movement in price !

 

[DionysusToast]

Short term - buying/selling pressure is what moves price
Long term - fundamentals move price

First - decide what you want to be.

Second - whatever chart pattern/fib level/S&R or whatever you are looking at, know one thing - there is an equal chance of it doing what you think it will do OR exactly the opposite.

These levels are known by all. For example - let's say that you had a high of the day already on the ES at 9:45, 1 hour later, we are approaching that high again. You have a choice now - you can trade this level totally blindly OR you can use the DOM/T&S to see if someone is attempting to manipulate the price in the short term or if there is what appears to be genuine buying/selling pressure there.

Some people say this is a game of probability. That a specific setup has a probability of being right & wrong. The problem with this is that some people don't know that in many cases, they were enticed into taking the position you took by someone who knew what setup they were looking for.

At the high of the day for instance, someone may build up a long position whilst creating the appearance of weakness. What this does is to get you short with your stop loss just above the high of the day (duh!). When the traders that do this are fully positioned, they'll pull their spoof orders from the ask, thicken up the bid and the price will go up, forcing you to cover and bringing in other buyers.

Obviously, this has nothing at all to do with probability. So - when you lose, consider the fact that whilst it could have been probability, there is an equal chance that you got suckered in.

People that build these positions know exactlty what levels you are looking at:

S/R
Fibs
Pivots
High of day/yesterday
Low of day/yesterday

These are the areas around which people are likely to attempt to play chart-only traders.

This is not dissimilar to the longer term accumulation/distribution that occurs in stocks but I don't trade based on that, so someone else will have to chime in.

 

[Renatogrant]

Hope your not refering to me there trader 333!!!