Darwinex and UK taxation

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Blonde_Angel

Junior member
41 1
Hiya,



Is Darwinex offering Financial Spread-betting and how is the position fills on FX-Majors?


Tnx and best of luck
 

CavaliereVerde

Experienced member
1,602 2,076
Darwinex is an OTC DMA broker with forex and CFDs.
The execution is similar to other mainstream brokers like Tickmill and IC-Markets.
 

IlIlIlIlI

Established member
647 615
there is no Financial-Spreadbetting in Darwinex?
Maybe you should define better or more detailed what you really mean with "Financial-Spreadbetting".
Tax free trading as betting depends on your domestic laws - Darwinex will create a tax report for your accounts.
They use LMAX and SAXO as markets - but if there would be a problem on these markets you're not refunded. :D
Spreads were always better than offered at LMAX to direct clients and always inside the LMAX offer when I checked it out.
You can open a demo account and start comparing, :) there is no difference between demo and live accounts on the quotes.
 
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Blonde_Angel

Junior member
41 1
Maybe you should define better or more detailed what you really mean with "Financial-Spreadbetting".
Tax free trading as betting depends on your domestic laws - Darwinex will create a tax report for your accounts.
They use LMAX and SAXO as markets - but if there would be a problem on these markets you're not refunded. :D
Spreads were always better than offered at LMAX to direct clients and always inside the LMAX offer when I checked it out.
You can open a demo account and start comparing, :) there is no difference between demo and live accounts on the quotes.
Hiya @IlIlIlIlI



Thanks. Financial spread betting means the Financial-SB concept that is tx free trading for UK residents in some asset class. I'm looking for a Financial-SB with the best of the best fill for FX-Major pairs. I want to keep trading with near to ECN price feed, spread and position fills and gets the advantage of UK tx free Financial-SB trading?

And about the spread of Darwinex that is from SAXO and LMAX, do you mean the best premium account from SAXO and LMAX can't beat the Darwinex spread? Do you tested with the SAXO and LMAX's best ECN account and checked spread in that account with Darwinex?
Overall I'm looking to trade Financial-SB in the UK as long as it does not involve in tx filing as the Financial-SB law allows the UK clients. Do you know if the LMAX or SAXO have any Financial-SB account that works tx free for UK clients, please? I'm looking to keep trading with near to ECN price feed, spread and position fills and gets the advantage of UK tx free Financial-SB trading?

Tnx and best of luck 😇
 

IlIlIlIlI

Established member
647 615
Thanks. Financial spread betting means the Financial-SB concept that is tx free trading for UK residents in some asset class. I'm looking for a Financial-SB with the best of the best fill for FX-Major pairs. I want to keep trading with near to ECN price feed, spread and position fills and gets the advantage of UK tx free Financial-SB trading?
First you should know that there is no regulated common market for Forex trading. That means that there is no common ECN price feed, the feed comes from the market and ECN just means that the trade is directly filled the market without an approval by the broker.

It also makes more sense to compare broker quotes than broker spreads, as quotes can differ significantly in the main market direction. Unfortunately the page linked does not show quotes realtime for all brokers and often does not work. Yes, it's a mess.

And about the spread of Darwinex that is from SAXO and LMAX, do you mean the best premium account from SAXO and LMAX can't beat the Darwinex spread? Do you tested with the SAXO and LMAX's best ECN account and checked spread in that account with Darwinex?
No, I didn't test SAXO and LMAX directly. I'm satisfied with Darwinex and their London broker company Tradeslide.
Do you know if the LMAX or SAXO have any Financial-SB account that works tx free for UK clients, please?
No, I don't know that as I'm not a resident in the UK.
As Darwinex has their licence in London via their trading company Tradeslide, I'm sure they know it much better and they will file only statements to the authorities which they have to file to them. And I'm also sure all the others will do the same.
They all do what they have to do.
If FX trading is tax free in the UK you don't pay taxes regardless with which broker you are trading - highly legitimate brokers in Europe have their licence in London.
As the UK and 96 other countries signed the CRS, since 2017 it's a child's dream to think the domestic authorities cannot know it when a new account is opened in another country with higher legal standards.
 
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Blonde_Angel

Junior member
41 1
First you should know that there is no regulated common market for Forex trading. That means that there is no common ECN price feed, the feed comes from the market and ECN just means that the trade is directly filled the market without an approval by the broker.

It also makes more sense to compare broker quotes than broker spreads, as quotes can differ significantly in the main market direction. Unfortunately the page linked does not show quotes realtime for all brokers and often does not work. Yes, it's a mess.


No, I didn't test SAXO and LMAX directly. I'm satisfied with Darwinex and their London broker company Tradeslide.

No, I don't know that as I'm not a resident in the UK.
As Darwinex has their licence in London via their trading company Tradeslide, I'm sure they know it much better and they will file only statements to the authorities which they have to file to them. And I'm also sure all the others will do the same.
They all do what they have to do.
If FX trading is tax free in the UK you don't pay taxes regardless with which broker you are trading - highly legitimate brokers in Europe have their licence in London.
As the UK and 96 other countries signed the CRS, since 2017 it's a child's dream to think the domestic authorities cannot know it when a new account is opened in another country with higher legal standards.
Hiya @IlIlIlIlI


Thanks. I wanted to say only Financial Spread-betting is tx free in the UK but Spot-FX trading is tx-ed. Thus I'm looking for the best of the best ECN (No Dealing Desk) Financial Spread-betting broker that offers this service for UK resident in a tx-free scheme. (Term of contract in Financial SB is different but they can be the same concept in the big picture).

Tnx and bets of luck
 

IlIlIlIlI

Established member
647 615
I wanted to say only Financial Spread-betting is tx free in the UK but Spot-FX trading is tx-ed.
If you take this definition, every Forex broker - including Darwinex - must be tax free for UK residents as the trader does not enter the spot market, not even the future market with any Forex trades or owns any currencies but his account currency.
At most Forex markets you trade with the liquidity providers and never with regulated markets or other clients.
Maybe you made it more complicated than necessary ;)
 
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Blonde_Angel

Junior member
41 1
If you take this definition, every Forex broker - including Darwinex - must be tax free for UK residents as the trader does not enter the spot market, not even the future market with any Forex trades or own any currencies but his account currency.
At most Forex markets you trade with the liquidity providers and never with regulated markets or other clients.
Maybe you made it more complicated than necessary ;)
Hiya @IlIlIlIlI



Thanks. Account shall be opened under terms of Financial Spread-betting otherwise it's not under this tx-advantage. I mean I can't find on the Darwinex website about Financial Spread-Betting and I expected maybe an official support staff can join this public post and answer this from the company's perspective.
But if the account is not opened under Financial Spread-Betting, then it's not the Financial Spread-Betting, as Financial Spread-Betting have different position sizing than FX, e.g. in Financial SB the GBP/USD is 13777.0 Sell/13778.5 Buy but the Spot-FX is different than this pricing.
I know some companies offering Financial SB in the UK, but I don't know if they are the best of the best, and pricing and order management look like ECN(NDD) or not? The ones that I know they are maybe MM(DD) broker and they are not ECN(NDD) ones. As I heard a good thing about Darwinex, I thought they may have this, but I can't find it on their website?

I couldn't find Financial SB on the LMAX website either?

I expected a professional trader from the UK could clarify this or someone from the broker's staff? But there is no one here and the forum looks so empty for me?


Tnx and best of luck
 
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IlIlIlIlI

Established member
647 615
Hiya @IlIlIlIlI



Thanks. Account shall be opened under terms of Financial Spread-betting otherwise it's not under this tx-advantage. I mean I can't find on the Darwinex website about Financial Spread-Betting and I expected maybe an official support staff can join this public post and answer this from the company's perspective.
But if the account is not opened under Financial Spread-Betting, then it's not the Financial Spread-Betting, as Financial Spread-Betting have different position sizing than FX, e.g. in Financial SB the GBP/USD is 13777.0 Sell/13778.5 Buy but the Spot-FX is different than this pricing.
I know some companies offering Financial SB in the UK, but I don't know if they are the best of the best, and pricing and order management look like ECN(NDD) or not? The ones that I know they are maybe MM(DD) broker and they are not ECN(NDD) ones. As I heard a good thing about Darwinex, I thought they may have this, but I can't find it on their website?

I couldn't find Financial SB on the LMAX website either?

I expected a professional trader from the UK could clarify this or someone from the broker's staff? But there is no one here and the forum looks so empty for me?


Tnx and best of luck
They call it professional accounts. If I were you, I would call them and ask for a spread-betting account.
As most brokers they are looking for international clients and do not target on UK tax regulations.
I also assume that they are not allowed to write a word about tax regulations.
 
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Blonde_Angel

Junior member
41 1
They call it professional accounts. If I were you, I would call them and ask for a spread-betting account.
As most brokers they are looking for international clients and do not target on UK tax regulations.
I also assume that they are not allowed to write a word about tax regulations.
Hiya @IlIlIlIlI



Thanks. I'm developing strategies and EA/Robot and my associate placing trades by my ideas through the confidential corporate account as I gathered some professional legal team and solicitors/attorney-in-law to help me with my goals, but it's not the best of the best and most cost-effective way that exists, thus I'm looking to improve my scheme if I get a better idea for implementing my business plan. Thus I believe I or the company associated with me will qualify for the professional account(with higher leverage) for Financial SB trading for the UK individual. But as per my knowledge, Financial SB for UK individuals does do not have tx advantage if you trade by a corporate account? Thus I need strategy for tx minimization alongside this.

I emailed the LMAX and Darwinex about UK Financial SB account availability, but I couldn't find the email for SAXO to email them. They only have a phone number, thus is anyone have an email for the SAXO UK, I appreciate it if they can share it?

The thing is, assuming I can trade and I can be in black while trading with a broker like IB, while IB does not have a Financial Spread-Betting account for UK residents, I'm thinking if I trade with a Financial SB account for UK individuals from a different broker, will my same successful trades can still be successful if I use the Financial SB account for trade instead of the premium ECN(NDD) account with a broker like IB? If yes, this will reduce my costs, and technically is tx efficient plan that minimizes the unnecessary costs like tx?

And the thing is, who offers the best of the best Financial SB account for UK individuals that are regulated and reputable broker as well as there shall be no price manipulation at all?

Also I want to estimate if I can make money by corporate account with a broker like IB in X% annually, how much can I make with the best of the best Financial SB broker account? Can I make the same X% with the Financial SB account for UK individuals? I heard that the Financial SB brokers are not in the grade of trustability par with a broker like IB, but I want to be sure if there is the possibility to make consistent money through them while if I potentially can place the same trades in an ECN(NDD) broker and make a profit, will same profitable trades make a profit if I use a Financial SB broker?


Tnx and best of luck 😇
 

IlIlIlIlI

Established member
647 615
They only have a phone number, thus is anyone have an email for the SAXO UK, I appreciate it if they can share it?
try this ;) - they prefer to chat, but you need a login for that chat or an installed trading platform.
I've read they are still a 4 digit broker, I would ask for that if you call them. They also have an own trading platform, so I would also ask for support of the platform you prefer to choose.
For the rest of the questions I would ask Darwinex first, maybe you don't need answers from others.
IMO the Darwinex accounts meet the criteria for a Financial SB accoount as they don't have any own liquidity accounts and you don't own any of the traded currencies. They protect traders against their liquidity providers on the highest level I know.
You can tell them that I wrote that, I assume they know me (for sure some individuals there do) ;)
Maybe you need a tax consultant to explain the FSB details to your financial authorities.
 

Blonde_Angel

Junior member
41 1
try this ;)- they prefer to chat, but you need a login for that chat or an installed trading platform.
I've read they are still a 4 digit broker, I would ask for that if you call them. They also have an own trading platform, so I would also ask for support of the platform you prefer to choose.
For the rest of the questions I would ask Darwinex first, maybe you don't need answers from others.
IMO the Darwinex accounts meet the criteria for a Financial SB accoount as they don't have any own liquidity accounts and you don't own any of the traded currencies. They protect traders against their liquidity providers on the highest level I know.
You can tell them that I wrote that, I assume they know me (for sure some individuals there do) ;)
Maybe you need a tax consultant to explain the FSB details to your financial authorities.
Hiya @IlIlIlIlI



Thanks. I don't think UK authorities in tx purpose will listen to anyone. They are mad and they are rude and they just threaten and send bills.

I Just noticed your signature with Strategy and I have personal questions about it. I'm just asking for my own information, if you don't mind answer me here, or if you don't want to answer publicly, you may PM me the answers, please?

About your signature Robot 'ILR', hypothetically users of that Robot that projected 32.55% annual return have a fee to apply, the breakdown of the fee is:
1.2% annual fee + 20% Performance fee= Total charge of 21.2% annual charge whether strategy makes any profit or not?
May I ask if their % of loss and % that you may not able to reach the goal of 32.55% is calculated anywhere and is it presented to the customer? And customer knows in what percentage you may succeed and meet the goal of 32.55% and in what percentage you may not?
Risk assessment is a sophisticated finance topic, have you professionally calculated this risk assessment and presented it to customers?
Is this claim for the profitability of the strategy and projection for-profit and % of possibility for loss presented professionally to Risk assessment auditing company and they approved these figures?
I mean is this All the charges Total as 21.2% or your share as strategy developer is extra over these fees or it's inside the 20% Performance fee or is the actual 20% Performance fee is totally yours?
e.g. If someone invests a 1Million EUR for one year, there is a 21.2% charge for adding your strategy to er/his portfolio whether this strategy reaches the projected profit of 32.55% or not? I mean what if invested 1Million EUR annually:
1- It made 21.2% profit in total?
2- It made 25% profit in total?
3- It made 15% profit in total?
4- It made 5% profit in total?
5- It made 0% profit in total?
6- It made a -10% loss in total? (Profit+loss= -10% loss in total means strategy made 10% of capital loss without making any profit)

May please explain what would happen for the investor by reference to the numbers in m query, in each case?


Tnx and best of luck 😇
 

IlIlIlIlI

Established member
647 615
Thanks. I don't think UK authorities in tx purpose will listen to anyone. They are mad and they are rude and they just threaten and send bills.
I also found this comment to the UK tax regulations which sound logically and I think these SP accounts are just a marketing gag of bad brokers and don't work for the clients.
It's more a question of the trading style (short or long term) and other criteria (like other income sources) whether they can charge taxes or not a question of a account type. I would be tax free in the UK as I'm only trading short term and not investing with my trading account but unfortunately I'm not in my country.

For your questions about Darwinex investments and my Darwin ILR answer later when I have enough time for a qualified answer.
 
 
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