Could the Weimar Hyperinflation Happen Again in America?

If you can't work it out for yourself I am not sure I should bother, especially when you post like ipso facto you are correct.

Modern definition is that inflation and deflation tend to relate to prices. In the long run changes in the money supply tend to equate to changes in price, but the modern definition relates to prices.

Older economics textbooks refer to the money supply. I buy into this definition. If we look at the last three decades then there has been plenty of inflation (increase in the money supply) but prices for things like computers, plasma tv's, calculators etc. has been falling due to advances in technology. These prices would suggest a deflationaty environment by the modern definition, whereas if you look at the money supply you would see that we were in an inflationary environment during the last 3 decades.

Well this is where NRs arguement fails.

To explain these discrepancies in Ms and prices and nominal and real inflation etc etc one must consider economic activity the frequency of exchange of money from one hand to another as well as increase in productivity and output for goods and services.

Then one can see the economy and transaction mechanism how money feeds into prices at work.

EG.

Ms rises x frequency of exchange stays same = Output rises x prices remain same.

In electronic items if Output of these items due to mass production rises ie

OUTPUT > Ms

then for the equation to balance prices must fall.

HIGH OUTPUT x FALL IN PRICES.
 
Also to flip the question over, seeing you think i am wrong in my theory and views. Why is it i make a living from trading and do rather well from it? Another pondering for your glass of scotch..
 
Uh huh, care to hazzard a real guess? or do you not know? Did they not teach you that as part of your supply and demand equations?
 
Well this is where NRs arguement fails.

To explain these discrepancies in Ms and prices and nominal and real inflation etc etc one must consider economic activity the frequency of exchange of money from one hand to another as well as increase in productivity and output for goods and services.

Then one can see the economy and transaction mechanism how money feeds into prices at work.

EG.

Ms rises x frequency of exchange stays same = Output rises x prices remain same.

In electronic items if Output of these items due to mass production rises ie

OUTPUT > Ms

then for the equation to balance prices must fall.

HIGH OUTPUT x FALL IN PRICES.

Right so, let me get this right..if production of electornic items increase, supply icnreases, prices fall? yeh? sweet.

So where does the producer get the money to pay for the increase in production.. bank loans? Sale? Etc? But if there is no money in the system to lend how is this company going to start mass producing **** to increae supply and make prices fall? They dont. :rolleyes: And if the consumer has no money to buy said items, prices will far regardless of supply.
 
Uh huh, care to hazzard a real guess? or do you not know? Did they not teach you that as part of your supply and demand equations?

Stop blowing your trumpet and going off on tangents.

You haven't dealt with

Ms fall = Price fall yet???

On balance yes true correlation but not always. WAY TOO SIMPLISTIC.

Your dinky winky formula doesn't explain Jimmy's observation does it?
 
If you answer the yield question it will unravel the rest, and i asked first, manners please..

Go just admit you dont know? Then we can put this to bed that while you may have a good grasp of text book economics you dont know how things REALLY work, which we have actually proved time and time again in the various threads regarding your lack of understanding in money creation and the credit markets.

And i will admit you seem to be more clued up on the supply demand ratios etc than i am, but it would seem i know more about the parts that matter! (hence being a proftible trader and you not)
 
Stop blowing your trumpet and going off on tangents.

You haven't dealt with

Ms fall = Price fall yet???

On balance yes true correlation but not always. WAY TOO SIMPLISTIC.

Your dinky winky formula doesn't explain Jimmy's observation does it?

as i stated in earlier post, jimmy observation is completely incorrect.
 
Right so, let me get this right..if production of electornic items increase, supply icnreases, prices fall? yeh? sweet.

So where does the producer get the money to pay for the increase in production.. bank loans? Sale? Etc? But if there is no money in the system to lend how is this company going to start mass producing **** to increae supply and make prices fall? They dont. :rolleyes: And if the consumer has no money to buy said items, prices will far regardless of supply.

Good point!

So what happens if the producers have productivity improvements?

Before we used to have wage inflation.

Reason why inflation avoided this time round is due to migrant labour preventing wage inflation and increased productivity improvements. Thus you can maintain higher output at stable prices with changes in Ms or economic activity.

You capiche?
 
Good point!

So what happens if the producers have productivity improvements?

Before we used to have wage inflation.

Reason why inflation avoided this time round is due to migrant labour preventing wage inflation and increased productivity improvements. Thus you can maintain higher output at stable prices with changes in Ms or economic activity.

You capiche?

Wrong, well partly right. But not the real reason for lack of inflation, or to be correct, the disinflation that has occurred over the last 2 decades.
 
Anyway im off to 2 get proper pissed. Lets agree to disagree and you go back to losing money with your correct theory and i will go back to making a living trading with my oh so flaud theory...m'kay?

ciao x
 
Wrong, well partly right. But not the real reason for lack of inflation, or to be correct, the disinflation that has occurred over the last 2 decades.

What is the real reason then?

Also deflation to me is -ve figures.

If inflation falls from 5% to 1% to me that is a slowing down of inflation.

Disinflation - I guess you mean -ve figures again.

I'm not sure we've had deflation or disinflation.

In fact valuing the DOW indeces in gold paints a whole different picture on value of such companies represented in the DOW in real terms as opposed to monetary nominal values...
 
Disinflation is falling inflation. As apposed to deflation which is negative inflation.

And if you really want to educate yourself on disinflation and liquidity, may i recomend "New Monetarism" by david roche.
 
you do realise bond yields are gona be pushed to near 0 soon yeh?

And i can think it though, perhaps better than you? Hence i dont follow the main stream internet forum, youtube theory of hyperinflation.

Hmmm.

Reuters have reported no less a figure than Alan Greenspan saying that:

" Greenspan said the subdued symptoms of fiscal excesses is fostering a sense of complacency that could have dire consequences for the U.S. economy.

U.S. Treasuries are nevertheless free of credit risk. However, they are not free of interest rate risk, according to Greenspan, who is no longer a policy maker but is still listened to by the markets.


"If Treasury net debt issuance were to double overnight, for example, newly issued Treasury securities would continue free of credit risk, but the Treasury would have to pay much higher interest rates to market its newly issued securities," he said.

Greenspan, who was the chairman of Federal Reserve for about 19 years until his retirement in 2006, said he agreed that low long-term interest rates could continue for months.

"But just as easily, long-term rate increases can emerge with unexpected suddenness," he added.

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-49437420100618

Now Nigel, you are possibly thinking that the current artificially low interest rates are an attempt to fight off deflation, and you are correct. No argument about that. But where your half-pissed and fuzzy reticular system is letting you down, is in the insight stakes.

Do you think the USA and the UK (to name just 2 of the posse) will be successful in their use of interest rates to defeat deflation?

Is that a "yes" I hear, or a "dunno".

If it is a "dunno" then you may phone a friend, but a grade four pupil could tell you that once a number reaches zero(such as current interest rates) then that's about the limit.

The only tool left for them is Quantitative Easing. The lowering of interest rates did not help Japan and it won't help the USA. Of course I hear your foggy response, that Japan has had a protracted period of deflation - you can read that in any Economics 101 text.

The USA (and vicariously the UK) wish to avoid that, so they are attempting to stimulate the economy before deflation sets in, or whatever name you want to give it to display your economic literacy. The problem is that all the money printed will have to be sucked up again at some stage, and as Al Greenspan says, they will not want to raise taxes to do that.

Now, Nigel, pay attention for a bit mate.

Greenspan again:

U.S. Treasuries are nevertheless free of credit risk. However, they are not free of interest rate risk ... If Treasury net debt issuance were to double overnight, for example, newly issued Treasury securities would continue free of credit risk, but the Treasury would have to pay much higher interest rates to market its newly issued securities," he said.


Now what do you suppose the higher interest rates might be that the G-O-V-E-R-N-M-E-N-T might have to pay would be called?

If you answered "Higher Bond Yields" then you may move forward to the next round, and you have locked in $100 dollars.

You see, recently, Bond Yields began to rise, and currently are settling a tad, as the Eurozone is having a bit of a tiff with their own yields a la Greece.

Greenspan said:

"Long-term rate increases can emerge with unexpected suddenness. Between early October 1979 and late February 1980, for example, the yield on the 10-year note rose almost four percentage points."

Yes. Plus, in the same year, 30-year Treasury bond yields rose five percentage points; Treasury bill rates catapulted from 6 percent to 16 percent in six months; and the prime rate hit 21.5 percent.


It is unlikely that yields would catapult that far, that quickly, but its a possibility we need to consider. If Bernanke and Geithner-guts get it wrong, then it's "game-on".

Don't be too short-sighted Nigel - just because there has been a bit of a contraction lately, don't think Yields can't blow out - you need to understand that the long term inflation rate is joined at the hip with the long term Bond rate.

If you are so confident, then you don't need to use another lifeline.

But you may need to ask the audience.
On this question, you do not have the 50:50 option, because to get it wrong would be catastrophic, and you must leave the show with the $100 that is locked in.

Before we go to the question, I bet you didn't even listen to this valuable interview, posted by Bevok:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/5/28_Felix_Zulauf.html

The question:

"If Treasury Bonds are so safe, and yields are rising to entice buyers to loan governments money, doesn't this paradoxically imply increasing risk of sovereign default, no matter how small, in purchasing Government Bonds?"

To help you, I would add: "Treasury yields increase, in order to attract purchasers, and long term inflation is linked solidly to the long term Bond rate. Given that the USA has precious little cash left to stimulate their economy, (though they do have more reserves than the UK) then the rising Bond Yields will indicate an increasing risk of sovereign default - regardless of the country selling the Bond."

Oh - and by the way - the USA has borrowed externally to fund their excesses, while Japan has drawn on the savings of their citizens to effect the same stimulus (which also failed), so you may not use that as a part of your answer.

Think carefully, Nigel.

Your time starts ... now!

If this chart does not chill you, then you are out of the next round, and can leave.
 

Attachments

  • growth-of-private-debt-burden.jpg
    growth-of-private-debt-burden.jpg
    70.8 KB · Views: 235
your quoting greenspan to back up your argument? I think we are done here.

And who the hell is nigel

And you still failed to answer the question of why they need to push interest rates to near 0, despite all your lovely paraphrasing. Heres a hint, has nothing to do with inflation.
 
your quoting greenspan to back up your argument? I think we are done here.

And who the hell is nigel

And you still failed to answer the question of why they need to push interest rates to near 0, despite all your lovely paraphrasing. Heres a hint, has nothing to do with inflation.

Bye - the rest of us can now continue, Yorrick.
 
Anyway i dont really care what you think, you can all go back to thinking your right, thats fine by me. Enjoy your trading.
 
"Originally Posted by LondonJimmy View Post
If we look at the last three decades then there has been plenty of inflation (increase in the money supply) but prices for things like computers, plasma tv's, calculators etc. has been falling due to advances in technology. These prices would suggest a deflationaty environment by the modern definition, whereas if you look at the money supply you would see that we were in an inflationary environment during the last 3 decades."



Product life cycle costing
Competition
Growth and globalisation
Aging population
Higher disposible income
Gadget culture
 
Top