Best Thread Capital Spreads
Spreadbetteur
Active member
- Messages
- 174
- Likes
- 3
Entries Which Are Dealt With Late
Simon
1. The other day I entered a trade on Rolling Cable and it did not get confirmed until the price had moved 5 or 6 pips against me. Luckily it came back and I had the option to get out at B/E.
Assuming it was not an Internet delay, if your traders confirm with delay, should they not fill me at a better (current) price. I note that often, especially in a fast moving market, if there is a delay and the price moves in my favour I do not get entered and get the "Price has expired" note. Though I only gte this when there is a move in my favour.
2. If cable is at 1.8260 and I place a order long at 1.8250. Then price creeps to 1.8245 and your dealers have not filled me am I able to cancel the order ?
In both the above the problem is placing an entry, then sometimes it is not confirmed (10 seconds) and I am left unable to exit or adjust the position. If there is a move in my favour I am likely to get the 'Price Expired' though if agaist me I am left watching the market without being able to exit or adjust and end up "live in a negative position.
Hope the above makes sense. Written after 9 hours at the screen.
I am trading usually with a stop of between 10 and 15, so it makes a difference to get quick fills.
Have a good weekend.
Simon
1. The other day I entered a trade on Rolling Cable and it did not get confirmed until the price had moved 5 or 6 pips against me. Luckily it came back and I had the option to get out at B/E.
Assuming it was not an Internet delay, if your traders confirm with delay, should they not fill me at a better (current) price. I note that often, especially in a fast moving market, if there is a delay and the price moves in my favour I do not get entered and get the "Price has expired" note. Though I only gte this when there is a move in my favour.
2. If cable is at 1.8260 and I place a order long at 1.8250. Then price creeps to 1.8245 and your dealers have not filled me am I able to cancel the order ?
In both the above the problem is placing an entry, then sometimes it is not confirmed (10 seconds) and I am left unable to exit or adjust the position. If there is a move in my favour I am likely to get the 'Price Expired' though if agaist me I am left watching the market without being able to exit or adjust and end up "live in a negative position.
Hope the above makes sense. Written after 9 hours at the screen.
I am trading usually with a stop of between 10 and 15, so it makes a difference to get quick fills.
Have a good weekend.
Spreadbetteur
Active member
- Messages
- 174
- Likes
- 3
Simon
Just to add to my last post, I seem to remember from my Deal4 free days, that if they delay and want to fill you at a lesser price, they give you the option to accept or cancel.
The issue is I am uncomfortable with a entry in limbo, while price moves against me.
Spread
Just to add to my last post, I seem to remember from my Deal4 free days, that if they delay and want to fill you at a lesser price, they give you the option to accept or cancel.
The issue is I am uncomfortable with a entry in limbo, while price moves against me.
Spread
Simon, can you explain how the rolling costs are calculated for forex? I was charged 3 pounds for a one dollar buy of EUR/USD, which by my calculations puts the interest at 9%. I thought it would be lower than that, or have I done something wrong? (It's a demo account)
F = [(1.2247/.0001) * 1*.0918]/365 = 3.08
F = [(1.2247/.0001) * 1*.0918]/365 = 3.08
Last edited:
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
Spreadbetteur
we only reject trades in currencies if the price that you are trying to trade is ouside the spread by the time we get it to confirm. for example if you buy at 1.8250 and the market is 1.8251-54 when we receive the instruction.
Orders... yes if we have not yet filled an 'order' and it is in your interest to cancel it .. then you can do so.. but please check that we have not activated it at the same time as your cancellation. We will not come back to you and say "Oi" you cancelled an order that was going against you. If we cannot fill the order in time then you are entitled to try and cancel it !!! (though of course we would prefer that you didnt! we have to make our money somewhere.)
sbguy
you are confusing the normal day cost with a weekend rollover. The weekend has 3 days so the cost (or income) is trebled.
The calculation is for a long EURUSD position is
stake*(price / 0.0001)*((USD rate - EUR rate)+2)/36500
say the price is 1.2250......USD rates are 3.0%..... EUR rates are 2.0% and stake is £1
1*(1.2250/0.0001)*((3.0-2.0)+2)/36500 =1.0068 or £1.01
and for a weekend £3.02
hope this helps
bobmick
all of our prices come from the exchanges and at the close most equities now go into an auction process. Once the auction is over the remaining bids and offers are left up on the screens, Sometimes these are a long way out from the close.
Although this affects the overnight P/L it is just a cosmetic effect which will correct on the open the next day and does not actually impact on your trading resources etc.. If you want to move a stop or place an order in these markets then you can ring us up and we will do it at this end.
good luck everyone
Simon
we only reject trades in currencies if the price that you are trying to trade is ouside the spread by the time we get it to confirm. for example if you buy at 1.8250 and the market is 1.8251-54 when we receive the instruction.
Orders... yes if we have not yet filled an 'order' and it is in your interest to cancel it .. then you can do so.. but please check that we have not activated it at the same time as your cancellation. We will not come back to you and say "Oi" you cancelled an order that was going against you. If we cannot fill the order in time then you are entitled to try and cancel it !!! (though of course we would prefer that you didnt! we have to make our money somewhere.)
sbguy
you are confusing the normal day cost with a weekend rollover. The weekend has 3 days so the cost (or income) is trebled.
The calculation is for a long EURUSD position is
stake*(price / 0.0001)*((USD rate - EUR rate)+2)/36500
say the price is 1.2250......USD rates are 3.0%..... EUR rates are 2.0% and stake is £1
1*(1.2250/0.0001)*((3.0-2.0)+2)/36500 =1.0068 or £1.01
and for a weekend £3.02
hope this helps
bobmick
all of our prices come from the exchanges and at the close most equities now go into an auction process. Once the auction is over the remaining bids and offers are left up on the screens, Sometimes these are a long way out from the close.
Although this affects the overnight P/L it is just a cosmetic effect which will correct on the open the next day and does not actually impact on your trading resources etc.. If you want to move a stop or place an order in these markets then you can ring us up and we will do it at this end.
good luck everyone
Simon
Last edited:
Spreadbetteur
Active member
- Messages
- 174
- Likes
- 3
Quoting Simon ..."we only reject trades in currencies if the price that you are trying to trade is ouside the spread by the time we get it to confirm. for example if you buy at 1.8250 and the market is 1.8251-54 when we receive the instruction. "
Simon
Thanks for the reply. I know you do that when the price moves for the trader but if it moves out of the spread against the traders direction somehow you manage to fill it ! Surely it should be the same effect both ways ? Or at least you could fill the trader at a better (Current Price at time of fill). Or you could requote the trader to see if the trader wants to take the better fill, which unless there has been a sudden big move the trader is likely to accept.
When the price moves out of the original offered spread, if you decline the trade when in the traders favour though fill it when against that is clearly shifting the odds and adding cost. So surely you should have a policy of either filling or declining either way. Or offering a requote.
When the traders clicks to trade he is only clicking on the price you are offering !
Perhaps there should be a button so the trader can cancel a trade which has not been confirmed, in the same way that you could cancel an order if it has not been executed your end.
Simon
Thanks for the reply. I know you do that when the price moves for the trader but if it moves out of the spread against the traders direction somehow you manage to fill it ! Surely it should be the same effect both ways ? Or at least you could fill the trader at a better (Current Price at time of fill). Or you could requote the trader to see if the trader wants to take the better fill, which unless there has been a sudden big move the trader is likely to accept.
When the price moves out of the original offered spread, if you decline the trade when in the traders favour though fill it when against that is clearly shifting the odds and adding cost. So surely you should have a policy of either filling or declining either way. Or offering a requote.
When the traders clicks to trade he is only clicking on the price you are offering !
Perhaps there should be a button so the trader can cancel a trade which has not been confirmed, in the same way that you could cancel an order if it has not been executed your end.
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
Spreadbetteur
i know it sounds unfair, but if you can imagine trading in the real exchange based market (i.e the futures markets) ........ if you tried to hit a price and it moved away from you before being filled you would just miss the deal and nothing would be done. But if you traded and the market moved against you at the same moment, you would just be filled straight away.
The SB companies are just that , exchanges, every trade made is made with 'the exchange' (in our case Capital Spreads) and as with exchange trading your risk is not the person who sold to you but the exchange itself (i.e substitute LIFFE and CME for Capital Spreads)
Simon
i know it sounds unfair, but if you can imagine trading in the real exchange based market (i.e the futures markets) ........ if you tried to hit a price and it moved away from you before being filled you would just miss the deal and nothing would be done. But if you traded and the market moved against you at the same moment, you would just be filled straight away.
The SB companies are just that , exchanges, every trade made is made with 'the exchange' (in our case Capital Spreads) and as with exchange trading your risk is not the person who sold to you but the exchange itself (i.e substitute LIFFE and CME for Capital Spreads)
Simon
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
Verno
this is something that is on the drawing board but is still a considerable distance away. IG and City have the same problem in that the computing power of the avaerage mobile is tiny compared to a PC and thus the price action can be delayed. This makes it difficult for the companies concerned to give as tight a price on the mobiles as on the main trading platform... and I understand that the incidence of rejected trades is much higher as well.
Simon
this is something that is on the drawing board but is still a considerable distance away. IG and City have the same problem in that the computing power of the avaerage mobile is tiny compared to a PC and thus the price action can be delayed. This makes it difficult for the companies concerned to give as tight a price on the mobiles as on the main trading platform... and I understand that the incidence of rejected trades is much higher as well.
Simon
Spreadbetteur
Active member
- Messages
- 174
- Likes
- 3
Simon
Any chance of removing the time out on the trader button order ticket, which was added when you upgraded some weeks ago.
It is nice to be one click away .
What is the argument to have a time out ? Nothing that I can think of ? Irritating for this end.
Have a good w end.
Any chance of removing the time out on the trader button order ticket, which was added when you upgraded some weeks ago.
It is nice to be one click away .
What is the argument to have a time out ? Nothing that I can think of ? Irritating for this end.
Have a good w end.
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
verno
Yes I have answered this one. at the moment we have no plans to add it but when we come to arrange our new upgrade priorites we will certainly be looking at it.
Spreadbetteur
nice to notice that people realise that we are also a one click dealing platform as this appears to be the new big selling point for D4F.
Unfortunately the time out will remain until we do our next upgrade.. the reason for this is very simple... web based viewers take no load off our platform but as soon a ticket is opened this creates a small load. We found that a significant number of our clients were opening a deal ticket and just leaving it open for days on end. This was affecting the speed of transaction for our active clients and so we put a four minute cutoff for our tickets. We may look at this again and maybe increase the cutoff time as our platform is now more efficient.
Simon
Yes I have answered this one. at the moment we have no plans to add it but when we come to arrange our new upgrade priorites we will certainly be looking at it.
Spreadbetteur
nice to notice that people realise that we are also a one click dealing platform as this appears to be the new big selling point for D4F.
Unfortunately the time out will remain until we do our next upgrade.. the reason for this is very simple... web based viewers take no load off our platform but as soon a ticket is opened this creates a small load. We found that a significant number of our clients were opening a deal ticket and just leaving it open for days on end. This was affecting the speed of transaction for our active clients and so we put a four minute cutoff for our tickets. We may look at this again and maybe increase the cutoff time as our platform is now more efficient.
Simon
Simon,
I would like your comment on a small matter, if you don't mind.
I have a small (!) position on Light Crude (Aug) and have just seen the lows of the day been registered at 5895 at market, though I have not seen CS's prices in that region. While I conceede that these have been fairly fast spikes, I have been hovering over my Buy-button when the prices where in that area, not all fast spikes, though finding CS relieably some 10 to 20 pts above what I have on market - not an ideal situation for someone wanting to get out of a position, I am sure you will agree.
Please understand that this is not a complaint per se, though it is a cause for some concern to me.
All the best...
CJ
I would like your comment on a small matter, if you don't mind.
I have a small (!) position on Light Crude (Aug) and have just seen the lows of the day been registered at 5895 at market, though I have not seen CS's prices in that region. While I conceede that these have been fairly fast spikes, I have been hovering over my Buy-button when the prices where in that area, not all fast spikes, though finding CS relieably some 10 to 20 pts above what I have on market - not an ideal situation for someone wanting to get out of a position, I am sure you will agree.
Please understand that this is not a complaint per se, though it is a cause for some concern to me.
All the best...
CJ
Simon,
In relation to this I would also like to ask a question. Today I was short USD/CHF with an order to buy at 1.2759. At the time I was watching the market and saw the spread on the front screen go 1.2755 - 1.2759. It was only at this level for a few seconds before going 1.2756 - 1.2760 and I pulled my order because I thought I would execute manually rather than rely on an automation. In the end I got out at 1.2756 so made an extra 3 pips and I am not complaining.
My question is are orders automatically executed or do they rely on the dealers noticing them? ie if there are 20 orders at 1.2759 do the dealers work through them and if the price changes then thats unfortunate for those who don't get filled?
Again not a critisism just a question so I can potentially chose to manually execute rather than rely on an order where possible.
Thanks
Verno
In relation to this I would also like to ask a question. Today I was short USD/CHF with an order to buy at 1.2759. At the time I was watching the market and saw the spread on the front screen go 1.2755 - 1.2759. It was only at this level for a few seconds before going 1.2756 - 1.2760 and I pulled my order because I thought I would execute manually rather than rely on an automation. In the end I got out at 1.2756 so made an extra 3 pips and I am not complaining.
My question is are orders automatically executed or do they rely on the dealers noticing them? ie if there are 20 orders at 1.2759 do the dealers work through them and if the price changes then thats unfortunate for those who don't get filled?
Again not a critisism just a question so I can potentially chose to manually execute rather than rely on an order where possible.
Thanks
Verno
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
Dear All
Simon is on holiday this week - spot of golf in sunny Spain. He'll get back to you all on his return.
If you do have any urgent queries, please do contact us directly - [email protected] or telephone +44 (0)20 76000122.
Many thanks
Rachel
Simon is on holiday this week - spot of golf in sunny Spain. He'll get back to you all on his return.
If you do have any urgent queries, please do contact us directly - [email protected] or telephone +44 (0)20 76000122.
Many thanks
Rachel
Simon,
Its a shame that u arent open 24hrs....... I am getting forced to trade with another SB becxause of this. I trade forex which is a 24hr mkt and also looking to swing trade dow, but even there cant do it with u guys. I am not sure how others treat this, but if we have another 9/11, but in the middle of the night, i think people will be caught out.
I take it most of ur clients must be day traders, so perhaps they are not bothered. fair enough
Al
Its a shame that u arent open 24hrs....... I am getting forced to trade with another SB becxause of this. I trade forex which is a 24hr mkt and also looking to swing trade dow, but even there cant do it with u guys. I am not sure how others treat this, but if we have another 9/11, but in the middle of the night, i think people will be caught out.
I take it most of ur clients must be day traders, so perhaps they are not bothered. fair enough
Al
Hi Simon, I hope you would have had a good holiday by the time you get back!
On another thread (Tighest bid/ask spread?) you posted the following:
"When I read their brochure ( a while ago admitedly) it seemed that you were only filled if their corresponding trade was done in the market ( I may be wrong here). If not then you miss the deal. With the SB companies in the Wall Street you will nearly always get your deal done even if the market has pipped in your favor."
My question is this - if you are a market maker offering dealing prices to clients both online and over the telephone, are you not obliged to honour any price that you give?
Having been rejected a number of times (not just by yourselves!)
I find it a little frustrating not getting into the market...
How's the tan?
On another thread (Tighest bid/ask spread?) you posted the following:
"When I read their brochure ( a while ago admitedly) it seemed that you were only filled if their corresponding trade was done in the market ( I may be wrong here). If not then you miss the deal. With the SB companies in the Wall Street you will nearly always get your deal done even if the market has pipped in your favor."
My question is this - if you are a market maker offering dealing prices to clients both online and over the telephone, are you not obliged to honour any price that you give?
Having been rejected a number of times (not just by yourselves!)
I find it a little frustrating not getting into the market...How's the tan?
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
Jyde
I am not sure what the difference in this case is as our prices come straight from the electronic pit contract and should match them pretty much exactly. Are u sure that you are looking at the electronic market and not the 'open outcry' pit. If you notice it again can you call us and we will try to see what is wrong.
Verno
yes all orders have to be confirmed by a dealer (stops/limit/new) this enables our dealers to filter out incorrect price action. It also has the side effect of allowing clients to change orders (or cancel them etc) but you must check that the dealer has not activated the order whilst you were amending it! In normal price activity you will still be filled at your order price even if we take some time to activate it.
John 8888
prices offered online are in most cases good at all times ..... but although you call us a market maker we are actually a kind of cross between a market maker and an exchange. A good analogy would be in the direct access futures (or level two LSE) and you see a bid of say 5125 for 20 FTSE sep contracts and you sell 5 at that price. If somebody else hits the price before you you have nothing done and you sit there on the offer. So although you saw the bid and you, in good faith, hit it.. it does not mean that the LIFFE exchange is duty bound to fill you. With Capital Spreads in the Wall Street contract unless you are trading over a US number or announcement you will be filled on your price almost every single time. The FX market is the only one where price movements are more random and deals may be rejected more frequently. If you phone you will always (barring quote errors or slow client reaction) get your price no matter what the market.
All
we are working on a 24 hr FX platform but it is taking longer to build than expected. Wall street quoting 24 hours is not so urgent as the market is truly very quiet out of hours. To be absolutely brutal ...if a 9/11 occured out of hours and we had a 24 hour desk we would almost certainly go to telephone trading only...as I suspect would everybody else. Remember the Dow and S&P were actually closed for seven days after 9/11 including futures markets, outside of some SB companies quoting over the phone there were no US markets at all for the whole week !!
simon
I am not sure what the difference in this case is as our prices come straight from the electronic pit contract and should match them pretty much exactly. Are u sure that you are looking at the electronic market and not the 'open outcry' pit. If you notice it again can you call us and we will try to see what is wrong.
Verno
yes all orders have to be confirmed by a dealer (stops/limit/new) this enables our dealers to filter out incorrect price action. It also has the side effect of allowing clients to change orders (or cancel them etc) but you must check that the dealer has not activated the order whilst you were amending it! In normal price activity you will still be filled at your order price even if we take some time to activate it.
John 8888
prices offered online are in most cases good at all times ..... but although you call us a market maker we are actually a kind of cross between a market maker and an exchange. A good analogy would be in the direct access futures (or level two LSE) and you see a bid of say 5125 for 20 FTSE sep contracts and you sell 5 at that price. If somebody else hits the price before you you have nothing done and you sit there on the offer. So although you saw the bid and you, in good faith, hit it.. it does not mean that the LIFFE exchange is duty bound to fill you. With Capital Spreads in the Wall Street contract unless you are trading over a US number or announcement you will be filled on your price almost every single time. The FX market is the only one where price movements are more random and deals may be rejected more frequently. If you phone you will always (barring quote errors or slow client reaction) get your price no matter what the market.
All
we are working on a 24 hr FX platform but it is taking longer to build than expected. Wall street quoting 24 hours is not so urgent as the market is truly very quiet out of hours. To be absolutely brutal ...if a 9/11 occured out of hours and we had a 24 hour desk we would almost certainly go to telephone trading only...as I suspect would everybody else. Remember the Dow and S&P were actually closed for seven days after 9/11 including futures markets, outside of some SB companies quoting over the phone there were no US markets at all for the whole week !!
simon
Last edited:
capitalspreads said:
Simon, at least that is a reassuring answer. I did notice that on that particular day, prices just seem to be a bit 'off' (few points here and there). Of course, it feels more frustrating when it goes against one self.
If I see it again, I will give you a call. Thanks for answering.
All the best.
