Best Thread Capital Spreads

Crap Buddist said:
Does this right also include pulling all quotes on the platform, kind of like exercising the right to quote no prices when its deemed viable?

Do you have something like normal market size ? even pre market, so clients can just ask for a quoted spread without disclosing size, or their intention on direction beforehand.

Also given that situation if you then gave a firm phone quote within your normal market size, say ftse 6010/14 and then the client decides to say sell 100 at that point are you legally obliged to fill him at 6010 or could you still then pull the offer for them to trade ?

TIA.
Click to expand...

Capital Spreads T&C says the following;

4.14 A bet can only be placed on a current valid quote. A price may change at any time after it has been quoted and before you have traded. A quote made to you over the telephone is only valid for that conversation and may not be available on any subsequent telephone call. Quotes that have been given as 'indication only' are not valid and cannot be traded unless otherwise agreed by London Capital Group Ltd. Quotes that have been qualified or quotes that you have been told are no longer valid before you place your bet are also not tradable. For example, if, after the initial quote has been made, the phrases "change" or "off" or words to that effect are used by the London Capital Group employee these mean that the relevant quote is no longer valid. If you have ‘paused’ or ‘asked a question’ or ‘delayed’ in any manner after receiving ‘our quote’, said ‘quote’ may no longer be valid and London Capital Group Ltd reserves the right to amend the quote.


The following section is also applicable to your question;

7.1 Maximum and minimum stakes are set out in the Product Information Sheets or on the Online Trading Platform. At different times the maximum bet allowable for certain contracts may change (normally due to either extreme volatility or because the contract is being quoted out of market hours). Maximum and minimum stakes for new or one off markets will be quoted on request. Maximum and minimum stakes can vary accordingly to market conditions, including market volatility, closure or illiquidity. London Capital Group Ltd reserves the right to vary minimum/maximum stakes at any time. It is your responsibility to ensure that you know the current minimum and maximum stake applicable to any bet.


Steve.
 
Cheers Steve, I can see the min size it says £1 on all products, but cant see a max.

So for a client to execute a swift transaction on say FTSE daily in hours 1 point spread VIA the PHONE, they just need to phone dealing and ask for

"(within max size) daily ftse firm quote please" Now that will enable the bookie not to mess about he knows a punter wants to know a quote and for upto what size the bookie is quoting it for.

Then the punter can then decide if they want to accept the quote and then let the bookie know what whether they are buying and selling and what size. This way the bookie provides the client max info first and not the other way round, which is better for the client.

Is that correct ? Now that seems like a fairer deal to the client. A lot less hassle too by the sounds of it. Shame they cant offer that on the platform though , rather than play silly buggers.
 
You can see what a gravy train having that platform running is too, they quote you twice by the sounds of it :) makes sense to go straight to dealer on the phone so they cant back out of it. I suppose you can see why a lot of business is still done "offline" too.

Dodgy double quotes is not in the industry's best long term interest I dont think.
 
CB,

Excellent last 3 posts. Strictly speaking you should ask for a quote with size. I suspect if you have managed to get a two-way price, they will then wack the size right down.

Look here if you're fed up with amateurs (Deutsche Bank):

dbFX Online Foreign Exchange Currency Trading from Deutsche Bank. Free Demo Forex Trading Account.

I doubt DB will fck about with prices. Their execution software is pretty slick (firm prices). Min account is £2,500. Apart from my father being their largest shareholder, my brother on the senior management board, a cousin who is head of world-wide fixed income, an aunt who is PA to the chairman, and an uncle who is senior legal counsel; and apart from a brown envelope now and again, and use of the company jet, and use of the company mansion on the French Riviera, and all expenses paid, I have no connection to Deutsche Bank nor do I derive any benefit directly or indirectly from this recommendation.

Grant.
 
The good the bad and the bookie....

Cheers Grantx, its reassuring to see some of the T2W membership functioning with a sense of decency, fair values & principles as a matter or normality !


Now back to the standoff, Bookie v Client ,

The good the bad and the bookie. Wallets to be drawn at dawn....(The stink of cash,this time its personal!)


Bookie turn about please.

Client turn about please.

Both take one pace forward.

Gentlemen please, place your wallets

(ok now bookmaker and client are back to back one pace apart from each other with their wallets placed in their respective back pockets)

Bookmaker shake your touche

<delay>

Bookmaker shake your touche! Let the client know you've got some money in there!

<reluctant, not too sexy shake of bookies touche>

Client Shake you touche

<client shakes his little touche>

Client when your ready, REQUEST A QUOTE.

Client, <spits>" I'm a buyin 20 ftse I tell ya."

Bookie <titters,sniggers,burts into a raw of laughter> .

BANG! Your.........


Bookmaker now has already drawn the clients wallet from his back pocket and is now thumbing through its contents.

Diners, gym club membership card, visa, vince stanzione hot line number Gold Card with direct accesss to their Carribean Office.....

Bookmaker <with a sense of bloodlust> "ahhhh. £380 in 20's, thats what we've been lookin for." Now that "fair quote" you requested... hmmm yes, well, I mean , you see ,err, ummm....

THE NEXT.


Thank you .You have been participating in The good the bad and the bookie. Wallets to be drawn at dawn....(The stink of cash,this time its personal!)

But hang on when a client requests a quote isn't the bookie engaging in this ,does this or these terms fit on a regular basis ?

"change" or "off" ,‘paused’ ‘asked a question’ ‘delayed’ ,no longer be valid .


Fuuny the bookmaker isn't verbalising this to the client but its conducting business exactly in this way BEFORE the bookie has even given the INITIAL QUOTE. Is this what a client experiences, these words, their reality, how often ? once a year,week,day,hour? Is it normal practice?


Isn't it a wonder then if these principles are to be driven forward ,this Modus operandi, its no wonder the cleint base will be thinking "<something> Off".

Whats the sole purpose of the operation of this company ? is that being delivered?

"Yeeees... you've been living in a dream world Neo" Literally, actually.


NOW STAND & DELIVER!


I'M TOO SEXY FOR THIS THREAD.
 
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Crap Buddist said:
Now back to the standoff, Bookie v Client ,

The good the bad and the bookie. Wallets to be drawn at dawn....(The stink of cash,this time its personal!)

............. etc etc

NOW STAND & DELIVER!


I'M TOO SEXY FOR THIS THREAD.
Click to expand...


:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL: Excellent !
 
CB,

"Cheers Grantx, its reassuring to see some of the T2W membership functioning with a sense of decency, fair values & principles as a matter or normality !".

I think one should lead by example.

Grant.
 
Obviously all these comments about phone trades are made by people who have not done the boring job (errr ....that means work) of actually calling our phone line and asking a price.

we do not ask what you want to do when you call us..we do not ask your account number before we quote ... we do not ask the size etc ..we do not ask for anything until the deal has been confirmed. Then we will ask account number and name etc...

In pre-market out of hours quotes the dealer is likely to look at what other SB companies are quoting rather than our online quote to ensure that we are not out of line of current expectations. i.e exactly the same as you would expect when ringing a broker and asking for a 'market maker' stock price for a non SETS quoted LSE stock.

the rules over phone trading are there because markets move very quickly and by the time a dealer has finished quoting ..the price will almost certainly be different. (You try quoting a 1 pip wide FTSE price from our platform trade ticket such that the price is still the same by the end of the sentence as at the beginning and then waiting for even a very fast response from the client).

This delay between quote and response theoretically gives a phone client an advantage over an online one. For this reason we reserve the right to widen spreads over the phone.

This is not some conspiracy theory this is just 'market maker' practice the world over. No doubt some will see this as somehow 'unfair' but I would respectfully request that some of the more regular commentors actually try to think from our point of view for a change. How can we give a fixed price, for anything other than a tiny moment in time, on a fast moving market?

Simon
 
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Simon,

I read your latest annual report including the biographies of the key people (including yourself) - very impressive, impeccable. The problem I have is reconciling these high levels of expertise with what you say on your posts. Your last post is an example. I can only conclude you are taking the p1ss out of your gullible clients.

It's depressing.

Grant.
 
gratx
typical of the type of comment I have to answer

exactly what is wrong, misinformed or 'taking the p*ss' with the previous post.........exactly ... not with stupid innuendos or unproven claims blah blah blah.... ...

please forward every single answer of mine made on this forum to the FSA or the Financial Ombudsman...... if anything I have ever said is incorrect ...unfair to clients.....misinformed ......etc etc I am sure that they will come down like a ton of bricks.......


as I said ... we may check our competitors....I assume they sometimes do the same for us.... with no underlying market, of course our price is sometimes incorrect !!!.... do you think that my dealers, or anyone elses, has a crystal ball sitting in front of them telling them the opening level on the FTSE.

Sometimes the other SB companies prices change to match us... perhaps you would like to ask them if their price was 'incorrect'. We must take into account what our competitors are doing. As does every buisiness in the world no matter what they are selling.

This morning at 07.30 our price was 6124-6128 it actually opened at around 6110 ...were we (and every other SB company) incorrect? Yes ....did we reject sellers/buyers before the open? No

I would happily (as would my dealers) never quote out of hours markets as they are nothing but trouble but the clients ...YOU... demand it. If we removed it we would lose clients to competitors. If people want to trade out of hours (or trade in markets that have an out of hours component) then we will do our best to accomodate them.

Simon
 
Simon,

I don’t make “claims”, I make observations and ask questions (in vain). “Stupid innuendo”? WTF are you on about?

“This delay between quote and response theoretically gives a phone client an advantage over an online one. For this reason we reserve the right to widen spreads over the phone... How can we give a fixed price, for anything other than a tiny moment in time, on a fast moving market?”

Keep quoting the (changing) price until the client accepts or rejects. I think that’s better for your side.

“look at what other SB companies are quoting rather than our online quote to ensure that we are not out of line.”

In other words, you really don’t want to trade here, do you? So don’t. The mm who wants the business will give the best bid or offer; if he doesn’t want the business, he doesn’t give the best price.

“to ensure that we are not out of line of current expectations.”

I think you and your staff are sufficiently qualified to determine your own prices. Doesn’t competitive advantage ever enter the equation? Probably not, because Joe Schmuck doesn’t know any difference, and therefore you can’t fail.

Market-maker practise? You’re not running book are you? Think I’ll become a mm and clean up.

The FSA has got absolutely fck all to do with any of the issues raised. MiFid, “Best execution” are irrelevant if you determine your own prices. Ethics is not within the remit of the FSA.

Grant.
 
So the short answer to my question was "No.. there was nothing wrong with my statements"

Nice to see you trying to bluster your way out of a straight question.

keep changing the quote?? you obviously do not have an account with us.... I am looking at the FTSE 1 pip price as I write ... I cannot even vaguely keep up with the changing price VERBALLY in even a calm'ish' market period ..........and clients would be very intimidated by a one way stream of price comment of this fashion (not everyone is used to old style FX quoting)

competitive advantage? wow... apart from the fact that we quote 4 pips wide on the out of hours FTSE 100 compared to the six points almost universally offered elsewhere. or did you miss that bit? £40 bet? ... already 80 quid better off with us...

As Steve said in an earlier comment 'we will probably know who is calling' .. I would wonder at the intelligence of my dealers if they could not deduce the identity of a client after only a few calls. BUT this is a long way from knowing what he wants to do and we still have to quote a twoway price.


I do not deny that being the MM is a better start point than being the client (that is how we make our money in the long run) ..we will nearly always be on the right side of the trade on its initiation......but this is the same no matter who you trade with. SB CFD DMA etc etc You will always be trading on other peoples prices and will therefore (almost) always start from a losing or flat valuation.

Simon
 
capitalspreads said:
So the short answer to my question was "No.. there was nothing wrong with my statements"

Nice to see you trying to bluster your way out of a straight question.

keep changing the quote?? you obviously do not have an account with us.... I am looking at the FTSE 1 pip price as I write ... I cannot even vaguely keep up with the changing price VERBALLY in even a calm'ish' market period ..........and clients would be very intimidated by a one way stream of price comment of this fashion (not everyone is used to old style FX quoting)

competitive advantage? wow... apart from the fact that we quote 4 pips wide on the out of hours FTSE 100 compared to the six points almost universally offered elsewhere. or did you miss that bit? £40 bet? ... already 80 quid better off with us...

As Steve said in an earlier comment 'we will probably know who is calling' .. I would wonder at the intelligence of my dealers if they could not deduce the identity of a client after only a few calls. BUT this is a long way from knowing what he wants to do and we still have to quote a twoway price.


I do not deny that being the MM is a better start point than being the client (that is how we make our money in the long run) ..we will nearly always be on the right side of the trade on its initiation......but this is the same no matter who you trade with. SB CFD DMA etc etc You will always be trading on other peoples prices and will therefore (almost) always start from a losing or flat valuation.

Simon
Click to expand...

The point which I was trying to make in the post where caller ID was mentioned was an attempt to demostrate how the phone deaing option would give the client greater 'protection' than using the online system. This is a point which you (Simon) now seem to be underlining in the last few posts. It seems strange that you would allow this to happen?

You mention a saving of £40 (ie 2 points x 2 contracts) but this saving is not made if the online price is 'tweeked' on each trade attempt. You mention your '4 point spread' but in a previous post admit that you massage the spread to 6 - this personally makes no sense to me?? Firstly, your massage of the spread is actually making the spread 8 not 6..... you are adding 2 points to each end of your 4 point quote. Secondly you mention a £40 saving having previously admitted that an attempt to trade two contracts on a 4 point spread makes your dealers feel like they are making a pricing error.

Your comments on 'phone dealing' appear somewhat out of context in relation to what was being discussed. The discussion was on pre market where the spread is advertised as 4 points. I would agree with you that phone dealing isn't suited to a single point spread on FTSE during normal market hours but the situation is clearly different in out of hours trading. Between 7am and 8am not only is the quote 4 wide but there is no real volatility - this makes a phone quote about as easy as it is ever going to get.

All I was ever trying to get across was that your methods of dealing with online trades could not be replicated if a client used the phone based service. As you yourself have pointed out; on the phone the two way quote is given before a clients instruction on trade direction is given. Can you see that this means than you are never able to massage the quote in the same way that you do when a client tries a trade online? Effectively you are creating an 'online price' which is 8 wide whilst the 'phone price' will only be 4 wide.

Steve.
 
Hi Simon, can you open up spot gold for 24 hours trading like the forex pairs are, I believe you said in this thread last year that you'd be opening up more things to 24 hours trading soon but nothing has happened since? Also with your foreign currency accounts the maximum bet size is set at the same as your pound accounts which means for a Swedish krona account I can only bet 150 kronas which comes to a pathetic 12 pounds per point, could you sort that out please?
 
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Out of interest do the ticket numbers correspond to the number of trades you've had, i.e. we're currently on ticket number 563XXXX... does this mean you've had 5.6 million trades?
 
Arabian,

Their ticket numbers correspond to their cumulative spreads/profit share ratio.

Grant.
 
grantx said:
Arabian,

Their ticket numbers correspond to their cumulative spreads/profit share ratio.

Grant.
Click to expand...

:LOL:

Actually I now have a "complaint" about Capital Spreads, albiet mild as it didn't cost me any money in the end. Today and yesterday I've been playing about trading the dow in the afternoons and evenings (slightly profitably somehow :D - getting my account back into net profit after bonuses given the loss I took on a market I actually trade) and the feed cut out for 3 or 4 minutes... put it this way, it was enough time for me to log in remotely to reuters, check that the underlying was still trading, check the levels and think "bugger, I'm short and it just rallied a few ticks"...

Any reason for that Simon?
 
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