Noahedwinbeach2
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zambuck said:
What about the palestinians? There harboring terrorist as well. I am not familiar with Tibet.
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What about the palestinians? There harboring terrorist as well. I am not familiar with Tibet.
Noahedwinbeach2
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Perrington said:
who did appoint Saddam again? I thought it was a decided vote on Saddam's behalf. Funny how the other person ended up missing. I guess Saddam had no option but to win.
Perrington
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One thing to come out of the iraq fiasco is this...
Not a single person in the international community, will ever believe or support any US claims of countries harbouring terrorists or weapons of mass destruction for atleast the next 30 years.
I rest my case sir.
Not a single person in the international community, will ever believe or support any US claims of countries harbouring terrorists or weapons of mass destruction for atleast the next 30 years.
I rest my case sir.
It is sad that people are victimised for expressing their views, and worse still, the perpetrators are then hailed for such tasteless acts. One of the things we pride ourselves on is freedom of speech, even when the argument gets heated and insults are passed it still does not justify sending hate mail. There is no room for such cowardly acts in modern day society and those that have done such things should hang their heads in shame.
tradingknowledge
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Can you access Bush site from Great Britain because it is not accessible from France?
Bigbusiness
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Noahedwinbeach2 said:
How can a civil war be compared to an invasion of another country? I don't think there is any comparison. Some wars have clear objectives and can be justified. Others have no clear objectives and no justification.
tradingknowledge
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Why rightists cannot believe that America is imperialist
Typically a Rightist thinks that America is indeed acting for delivering the World and so will oppose more or less violently any Leftist that asserts the contrary.
It's true that it seems inconceivable that America which is democratic inside could be imperialist outside so that Imperialism would be just an appearance or a subjective interpretation of some inevitable and unhappy side-effects of war. As Jensen remarked in the Frontpagemag's debate
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/readarticle.asp?ID=15538&p=1
"I talk often about this contradiction in the United States: Internally, there has been considerable progress toward creating a more humane society, though the project is flawed and incomplete. At the same time, the United States has murdered and destroyed around the world. A friend of mine who grew up outside the United States said that she and her political allies abroad always assumed that, given the brutality of U.S. conduct in foreign policy, that the United States must be an incredibly repressive society internally. She was surprised to discover that it was a fairly free and open place. It was hard to reconcile, she said, that domestic reality with the ugliness of U.S. foreign policy. That’s one of the paradoxes of this country."
Some Leftists would pretend that America is not even democratic but let's admit that America's people enjoy much more democracy than any other country in the World so in this sense it is "democratic".
Now let's come back to the question of Imperialism. Is it only an appearance ? People can discuss during 1000 years about that it will just stay opinions and not factual proofs. So I'm not gonna refer to opinions any more. I'm gonna to refer to writings of some High Rank Gov official who was in charge of Foreign Policy.
The guy I'm gonna refer to is Brezinski. This guy when in Gov's administration, was responsible of pushing Ben Laden to the position of Power in CIA, this guy is also at the head of the Trilateral Commission which has been founded by David Rockfeller - the Rockfeller controls the Council Of Foreign Relation (CFR) which is a big Think Tank officially (financed with a lot of People Tax Money ) but insiders or let's say bad tongues assert that it is the CFR and not the President that really creates Foreign Policy. And if you know that Brezinski acted during a leftist Presidency, this shows at least that the President has not much power on a neo-facist-communist guy like him. I cannot qualify him with another word when his Philosophy is as revealed - not by some imaginative journalist but - by using his own writings:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/zbig.html
In his book the Grand ChessBoard Brezinski asserts this :
"the <font color=red><b>pursuit of power</b></font> is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a <font color=red><b>sudden threat</b></font> or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being." (p.35)
"Democracy is inimical to <font color=red><b>imperial mobilization</b></font>." (p.35)
"...To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more <font color=red><b>brutal age of ancient empires</b></font>, the three grand imperatives of <font color=red><b>imperial geostrategy</b></font> are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the <font color=red><b>vassals</b></font>" (p.40)
---------
I have put the words that prove Imperialism in RED, and it is his own words, and it is a guy that is not an obscure powerless guy, but a guy who is at the head of one of the most powerfull international organisation acting officially for "cooperation" but now you know what this term really means.
After that pretending that American Government - which I distinguish from America's People - is not conducting an Imperialist Policy would be really hypocrisis. And it can happen not only under Bush but also under any Leftist Gov, in fact did people remember that it was under Clinton than the first Irak War was commited ? As I said I won't put responsability on Clinton as I contend that it is the Administration that conducts the real policy and use the President only as a Front what I mean is that Leftists should be as vigileant with a leftist President than with a Rightist President. They seem to forget that using Honey Miel is a much efficient way to pass the most horrible things and Geostrategists like Brezinski clearly does not ignore this psychological factor. If a leftist faints to ignore this he is as hypocrit as his opponent.
Typically a Rightist thinks that America is indeed acting for delivering the World and so will oppose more or less violently any Leftist that asserts the contrary.
It's true that it seems inconceivable that America which is democratic inside could be imperialist outside so that Imperialism would be just an appearance or a subjective interpretation of some inevitable and unhappy side-effects of war. As Jensen remarked in the Frontpagemag's debate
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/readarticle.asp?ID=15538&p=1
"I talk often about this contradiction in the United States: Internally, there has been considerable progress toward creating a more humane society, though the project is flawed and incomplete. At the same time, the United States has murdered and destroyed around the world. A friend of mine who grew up outside the United States said that she and her political allies abroad always assumed that, given the brutality of U.S. conduct in foreign policy, that the United States must be an incredibly repressive society internally. She was surprised to discover that it was a fairly free and open place. It was hard to reconcile, she said, that domestic reality with the ugliness of U.S. foreign policy. That’s one of the paradoxes of this country."
Some Leftists would pretend that America is not even democratic but let's admit that America's people enjoy much more democracy than any other country in the World so in this sense it is "democratic".
Now let's come back to the question of Imperialism. Is it only an appearance ? People can discuss during 1000 years about that it will just stay opinions and not factual proofs. So I'm not gonna refer to opinions any more. I'm gonna to refer to writings of some High Rank Gov official who was in charge of Foreign Policy.
The guy I'm gonna refer to is Brezinski. This guy when in Gov's administration, was responsible of pushing Ben Laden to the position of Power in CIA, this guy is also at the head of the Trilateral Commission which has been founded by David Rockfeller - the Rockfeller controls the Council Of Foreign Relation (CFR) which is a big Think Tank officially (financed with a lot of People Tax Money ) but insiders or let's say bad tongues assert that it is the CFR and not the President that really creates Foreign Policy. And if you know that Brezinski acted during a leftist Presidency, this shows at least that the President has not much power on a neo-facist-communist guy like him. I cannot qualify him with another word when his Philosophy is as revealed - not by some imaginative journalist but - by using his own writings:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/zbig.html
In his book the Grand ChessBoard Brezinski asserts this :
"the <font color=red><b>pursuit of power</b></font> is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a <font color=red><b>sudden threat</b></font> or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being." (p.35)
"Democracy is inimical to <font color=red><b>imperial mobilization</b></font>." (p.35)
"...To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more <font color=red><b>brutal age of ancient empires</b></font>, the three grand imperatives of <font color=red><b>imperial geostrategy</b></font> are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the <font color=red><b>vassals</b></font>" (p.40)
---------
I have put the words that prove Imperialism in RED, and it is his own words, and it is a guy that is not an obscure powerless guy, but a guy who is at the head of one of the most powerfull international organisation acting officially for "cooperation" but now you know what this term really means.
After that pretending that American Government - which I distinguish from America's People - is not conducting an Imperialist Policy would be really hypocrisis. And it can happen not only under Bush but also under any Leftist Gov, in fact did people remember that it was under Clinton than the first Irak War was commited ? As I said I won't put responsability on Clinton as I contend that it is the Administration that conducts the real policy and use the President only as a Front what I mean is that Leftists should be as vigileant with a leftist President than with a Rightist President. They seem to forget that using Honey Miel is a much efficient way to pass the most horrible things and Geostrategists like Brezinski clearly does not ignore this psychological factor. If a leftist faints to ignore this he is as hypocrit as his opponent.
Tradingknowledge,
The thread is about Messers Bush and Kerry, who should be the next president of America. This is not about imperialism or America spreading its tentacles across the globe. Neither is it about right wingers and or the CIA and their sinister objectives.
There are so many posts on this thread that have departed from the original theme that it is unbelievable, if there is a wish to discuss America, imperialism or Zionism; would it not be better and fairer to others if a new thread were started?
The thread is about Messers Bush and Kerry, who should be the next president of America. This is not about imperialism or America spreading its tentacles across the globe. Neither is it about right wingers and or the CIA and their sinister objectives.
There are so many posts on this thread that have departed from the original theme that it is unbelievable, if there is a wish to discuss America, imperialism or Zionism; would it not be better and fairer to others if a new thread were started?
Perrington
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Here Here, Ive been trying to bring some sanity to this thread for the last 2 days... 🙂
Sadly, a forlorn hope, Perrington? 😱
I think it must be some sort of '70s leftist revivalist movement? You know, this sort of stuff: http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/
God, help us.
Cheers
Mayfly
I think it must be some sort of '70s leftist revivalist movement? You know, this sort of stuff: http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/
God, help us.
Cheers
Mayfly
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Noahedwinbeach2
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Oh well guys there is no point in me going farthur. I am in the minority on this board. Luckily I am not in the minority in this country. Election day will show that. This board doesn't represent the people of this country think goodness or we would be in trouble.
...point is that by waging this illegal war and the way the issue has gone, Bush is unelectable as a president this time....LION63 said:
...but it would appear that perhaps he may be re elected looking at some posts...
it seems he has larger following in some quarters..!!
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