Best Thread Bund Bobl and Schatz Thread

buy 'em

Active member
Jan 28, 2008
126
3
28
Iowa
#76
lol yeah im quick but sometimes being too quick can cause you to make a lot of mistakes lol!

With the ****ty yields the fixed income markets are giving investors they are better off sticking it under their mattress or at least using a portion of it to pick bottoms in the stock market. The poor demand for debt at the auctions is also a sign that people have bought all the bonds they need (im talking US treasury markets).

Thanks, feel free to shout as loud as you want to lol! My profit target on the S&Ps is 1300 and I think we could be even lower than that by the end of this week but im always a bear!
 
May 9, 2005
53
2
18
cologne
#77
The next area is to find out where is the paper giving up most of its edge?

In other words which is being hit more the bid or the offer and how aggressive are those market orders?

This is telling us people are not willing to wait around and hope to get filled on the bid/offer and instead are just taking the bid/offer.

The nice thing about actually looking at the transactions that are taking place on the bid/offer is that they cannot be manipulated like the bid/offer. Its easy to place a 2000 lot order on the bid and pull it right away but you cant just buy 2000 contracts and then cancel it!

Looking at the bid/offer transactions can also give you a good idea of the tempo of the market. Is it fast paced or slow paced? Are the offer transactions aggressive and the bid transactions less aggressive or the opposite?
Great stuff buy 'em. Thanks for this lesson.

A lot to think about, hopefully I interpret it te right way.
In general I tend to overcomplicate things.

If you talk about bid/offer transactions you refer to the tape?
Is it always the combination of tape and DOM you watch when you judge what happens in the market?

How do you recognize market orders? Orders on the tape below the bid or above the ask?

One thing I think I understood: If a big order stops the market, it will most likely turn and if it eats up the order, it breaks through...:p

Really a lot to think about and to watch in realtime.(y)
 

grantx

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2006
2,331
223
73
#78
Mckaldey,

I think that's the crucial point re buy 'ems post - we have to study the DOM (and Time and Sales) until we can recognise and interpret subtle shifts in sentiment or behaviour. The saying goes, "You have to put the screen-time in", ie watch and study hard for a long time. No short cuts in this business.

Grant.
 

buy 'em

Active member
Jan 28, 2008
126
3
28
Iowa
#79
Great stuff buy 'em. Thanks for this lesson.

A lot to think about, hopefully I interpret it te right way.
In general I tend to overcomplicate things.

If you talk about bid/offer transactions you refer to the tape?
Is it always the combination of tape and DOM you watch when you judge what happens in the market?

How do you recognize market orders? Orders on the tape below the bid or above the ask?

One thing I think I understood: If a big order stops the market, it will most likely turn and if it eats up the order, it breaks through...:p

Really a lot to think about and to watch in realtime.(y)

No problem, yeah overcomplicating things in this business can be fatal!!!

Bid/Offer transactions are just market orders. So say the market is 40 bid @ 40.25. So a market order is somebody just buying contracts at 40.25 or selling contracts at 40 So essentially they aren't waiting around and joining the bid/offer. They are just taking the best bid/offer out there at the moment.

The tape and DOM are the same thing. There is also time and sales but I don't use that.

Yeah thats exactly right. Locating the big bids/offers first is the foundation to everything else. You always want to be trading with the big boys and not against them.

I will try to make things a little more clear in my next post.
 

buy 'em

Active member
Jan 28, 2008
126
3
28
Iowa
#80
Ok guys i'm going to try to simulate a typical trade of mine during the day.

First I usually have the orderbooks up for bund, bobl and schatz up along with a 15 min chart of the schatz.

Next I'm looking for big bids/offers on the schatz book. The bids/offers that usually are the most honest are the ones that are farther out in the book (not the first 2 best bids and offers usually but not always). Also if there is a bid/offer at roughly the same level on one of the other contracts (bund or bobl) that is usually a good indication of an honest bid/offer. So say there is a nice size offer of 2000 contracts at the 8th best offer on the orderbook. Immediently I check out my 15 min chart and look to see if that is some sort of resistance level, if it is great if its not I still will lean on that size. I also check out the bund and bobl orderbooks and see if they have big size on the offer at roughly the same level in the orderbook.

Now I watch the market extremely close. If we are trading closer to that size is the offer getting bigger or is it getting weaker? If it is getting stronger I will sit tight and maybe add positions, if it gets substantially weaker then I remove my offer.

So say my order is still in place and I get filled. I will exit the market if we can break through that big order I leaned on so my risk is very little while at the same time im aiming for about 3-4 ticks so its a very good risk/reward setup.

A whole lot more goes into my decision making than that but at its most basic form that is what I am doing. Read over and over those posts I made about orderflow and watch the market continously while having no opinion what so ever. Just trade what you see not what you think.

Good Trading Guys
 

crude_lover

Active member
Nov 15, 2007
178
17
28
#81
Ok guys i'm going to try to simulate a typical trade of mine during the day.

First I usually have the orderbooks up for bund, bobl and schatz up along with a 15 min chart of the schatz.

Next I'm looking for big bids/offers on the schatz book. The bids/offers that usually are the most honest are the ones that are farther out in the book (not the first 2 best bids and offers usually but not always). Also if there is a bid/offer at roughly the same level on one of the other contracts (bund or bobl) that is usually a good indication of an honest bid/offer. So say there is a nice size offer of 2000 contracts at the 8th best offer on the orderbook. Immediently I check out my 15 min chart and look to see if that is some sort of resistance level, if it is great if its not I still will lean on that size. I also check out the bund and bobl orderbooks and see if they have big size on the offer at roughly the same level in the orderbook.

Now I watch the market extremely close. If we are trading closer to that size is the offer getting bigger or is it getting weaker? If it is getting stronger I will sit tight and maybe add positions, if it gets substantially weaker then I remove my offer.

So say my order is still in place and I get filled. I will exit the market if we can break through that big order I leaned on so my risk is very little while at the same time im aiming for about 3-4 ticks so its a very good risk/reward setup.

A whole lot more goes into my decision making than that but at its most basic form that is what I am doing. Read over and over those posts I made about orderflow and watch the market continously while having no opinion what so ever. Just trade what you see not what you think.

Good Trading Guys
in short figure out what the big guys are doing and follow behind them
 
Nov 23, 2007
2,778
789
123
#84
been watching the Schatz today... can anybody offer any insight into these 10K + orders that keep appearing?

Algo's or spoofing?
 
May 9, 2005
53
2
18
cologne
#85
A whole lot more goes into my decision making than that but at its most basic form that is what I am doing. Read over and over those posts I made about orderflow and watch the market continously while having no opinion what so ever. Just trade what you see not what you think.

Good Trading Guys
Fantastic, this opens a whole new world for me.

Every additional hints and help is highly appreciated.

I would like to ask which software/broker you use. Do you use X-Trader?

Myself I'm on the way to open my account with Velocity using Ninjatrader and TT feed.
 

buy 'em

Active member
Jan 28, 2008
126
3
28
Iowa
#87
been watching the Schatz today... can anybody offer any insight into these 10K + orders that keep appearing?

Algo's or spoofing?

Isn't it the same thing (algos and spoofing)?

They might seem like useless spoofs but watch em closely. If they stay there for a little while and somebody even hits a few of them you are best off hitting them also and they are usually good for a few ticks. So you don't want to be leaning on that, you want to be hitting that size if it stays there long enough.

Good Luck
 

buy 'em

Active member
Jan 28, 2008
126
3
28
Iowa
#88
Fantastic, this opens a whole new world for me.

Every additional hints and help is highly appreciated.

I would like to ask which software/broker you use. Do you use X-Trader?

Myself I'm on the way to open my account with Velocity using Ninjatrader and TT feed.

No problem, I am happy to help!

I am actually trading eurex through openecry (I use another broker which is a little more sophisticated for my position trade and other things) but to be honest they are pretty damn good. They have everything you need and the platform is simple to use and the best part is they don't fee you to death! Their platform is free, they don't charge for any charts or quotes, commisions are good if you do enough rts a day.

Something to think about.
 

grantx

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2006
2,331
223
73
#89
Buy 'em,

"you want to be hitting that size". Could you please clarify. Are you saying if there are, eg 10,000 on the bid, you should sell?

Re spoofs on the schatz, in my limited experience the schatz is the last place you'll see spoofs - the size of some trades is actually larger than many of the spoofs seen on the bund or bobl.

Grant.
 

grantx

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2006
2,331
223
73
#90
Buy 'em,

Looked at Openecry - looks a very slick setup. No indication of comm's. Can you give me an idea? Use my pm if more suitable.

Cheers,

Grant.