Brexit Remain Rage

[sminicooper]

The membership vote will be decisively in favour of the Brexit candidate. And that is how Leadsom becomes PM.

Look at the demographics of Conservative party membership: they are mainly the older generation who feel they have been deceived by joining something originally good which has morphed into a totally different entity.

My money is on Leadsom – Conservative party political history also shows that the favourite doesn't usually get it.

Give me trading any day – it's so much easier to see where you are going!


===============

Of course, there is a further possible scenario:

Theresa May gets overwhelming backing of the MPs, she does a deal with all the other contenders to pull out i.e. she offers them jobs (Leadsom – Chancellor, Gove – in charge EU negotiations for Brexit, Fox - Defence, Crabb - something to keep him happy) and thereby she could be a "Coronation" Prime Minister within a week. No hassle, no waiting till September, no argy-bargy amongst the party membership at large. If she rounded off with some kind of job for Boris perhaps everyone be happy (except for the politburo Remainers).

Quite a decent hypothetical outcome in my opinion – UK could then get on with its life.

 

[Atilla]

Gove is a man of integrity and has love of GB in him. He spear headed the leave campaign and we should listen to him as he knows what he is talking about

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...igorous-denies-wanting-to-be-pm-archive-video

 

[Atilla]

It’s gripping, of course. Game of Thrones meets House of Cards, played out at the tempo of a binge-viewed box-set. Who could resist watching former allies wrestling for the crown, betraying each other, lying, cheating and dissembling, each new twist coming within hours of the last? And this show matters, too. Whoever wins will determine Britain’s relationship with Europe.

And yet it can feel like displacement activity, this story of Michael Gove, Boris Johnson and Theresa May – a distraction diverting us from the betrayal larger than any inflicted by one Tory bigwig on another. Now that the news cycle is measured in seconds, there’s a risk that 23 June might come to feel like history, that we might move on too soon. But there can be no moving on until we have reckoned with what exactly was done to the people of these islands – and by whom.

This week’s antics of Gove and Johnson are a useful reminder. For the way one has treated the other is the way both have treated the country. Some may be tempted to turn Johnson into an object of sympathy – poor Boris, knifed by his pal – but he deserves none. In seven days he has been exposed as an egomaniac whose vanity and ambition was so great he was prepared to lead his country on a path he knew led to disaster, so long as it fed his own appetite for status.

He didn’t believe a word of his own rhetoric, we know that now. His face last Friday morning, ashen with the terror of victory, proved it. That hot mess of a column he served up on Monday confirmed it again: he was trying to back out of the very decision he’d persuaded the country to make. And let’s not be coy: persuade it, he did. Imagine the Leave campaign without him. Gove, Nigel Farage and Gisela Stuart: they couldn’t have done it without the star power of Boris.

He knew it was best for Britain to remain in the EU. But it served his ambition to argue otherwise. We just weren’t meant to fall for it. Once we had, he panicked, vanishing during a weekend of national crisis before hiding from parliament. He lit the spark then ran away – petrified at the blaze he started.

He has left us to look on his works and despair. The outlook for the economy is so bleak, the governor of the Bank of England talks of “economic post-traumatic stress disorder.” The Economist Intelligence Unit projects a 6% contraction by 2020, an 8% decline in investment, rising unemployment, falling tax revenues and public debt to reach 100% of our national output. No wonder George Osborne casually announced that the central aim of his fiscal policy since 2010 – eradicating the deficit – has now been indefinitely postponed, thereby breaking what had been the defining commitment of the Tories’ manifesto at the last election, back in the Paleolithic era known as 2015.


Perhaps headlines about Britain losing its AAA credit ratings don’t cut through. Maybe it’s easier to think in terms of the contracts cancelled, the planned investments scrapped, the existing jobs that will be lost and the future jobs that will never happen. Or the British scientific and medical research that relied on EU funding and European cooperation and that will now be set back “decades”, according to those at the sharp end.

And what was it all for? For Johnson, it was gross ambition. Gove’s motive was superficially more admirable. He, along with Daniel Hannan and others, was driven by intellectual fervour, a burning belief in abstract nouns such as “sovereignty” and “freedom”. Those ideas are noble in themselves, of course they are. But not when they are peeled away from the rough texture of the real world. For when doctrine is kept distilled, pure and fervently uncontaminated by reality, it turns into zealotry.

So we have the appalling sight of Gove on Friday, proclaiming himself a proud believer in the UK even though it was obvious to anyone who cared to look that a leave vote would propel Scotland towards saying yes in a second independence referendum. The more honest leavers admit – as Melanie Phillips did when the two of us appeared on Newsnight this week – that they believe the break-up of the union is a price worth paying for the prize of sovereignty. But what kind of patriotism is this, that believes in an undiluted British sovereignty so precious it’s worth the sacrifice of Britain itself?

Just look at what this act of vandalism has wrought. There has been a 500% increase in the number of hate crimes reported, as migrants are taunted on the street, told to pack their bags and get out – as if 23 June were a permission slip to every racist and bigot in the land. And for what? So Boris could get a job and so Gove, Hannan and the rest could make Britain more closely resemble the pristine constitutional models of the nation-state found in 17th-century tracts of political philosophy, rather than one that might fit into the interdependent, complex 21st-century world and our blood-drenched European corner of it.

They did it with lies, whether the false promise that we could both halt immigration and enjoy full access to the single market or that deceitful £350m figure, still defended by Gove, which tricked millions into believing a leave vote would bring a cash windfall to the NHS. They did it with no plan, as clueless about post-Brexit Britain as Bush and Blair were about post-invasion Iraq. They did it with no care for the chaos they would unleash.

Senior civil servants say Brexit will consume their energies for years to come, as they seek to disentangle 40 years of agreements. It will be the central focus of our politics and our government, a massive collective effort demanding ingenuity and creativity. Just think of what could have been achieved if all those resources had been directed elsewhere. Into addressing, for instance, the desperate, decades-long needs – for jobs, for housing, for a future – of those towns that have been left behind by the last 30 years of change, those towns whose people voted leave the way a passenger on a doomed train pulls the emergency cord. Instead, all this work will be devoted to constructing a set-up with the EU which, if everything goes our way, might be only a little bit worse than what we already had in our hands on 22 June.

This week of shock will settle, eventually. Events will begin to move at a slower pace. We will realise that we have to be patient, that we need to wait till France and Germany get their elections out of the way, and hope that a new future can be negotiated – one that implements the democratic verdict delivered in the referendum, but which does not maim this country in the process. But even as we grow calmer, we should not let our anger cool. We should hold on to our fury, against those who for the sake of their career or a pet dogma, were prepared to wreck everything. On this day when we mourn what horror the Europe before the European Union was capable of, we should say loud and clear of those that did this: we will not forget them.



https://www.theguardian.com/comment...and-michael-gove-betrayed-britain-over-brexit

 

[forker]

Gove is a man of integrity and has love of GB in him. He spear headed the leave campaign and we should listen to him as he knows what he is talking about

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...igorous-denies-wanting-to-be-pm-archive-video

I wouldn't trust a man that stabs his colleague behind his back in public. He is no leader and the EU will walk all over him. We need a tough team to use our cards effectively and use our advantage.

 

[Atilla]

I wouldn't trust a man that stabs his colleague behind his back in public. He is no leader and the EU will walk all over him. We need a tough team to use our cards effectively and use our advantage.

You did believe his every word during the Brexit campaign did you not? Where's your loyalty to your leader now?

How about Boris? Did you trust him too?

Some people are so quick to abandon their leaders

Think Gove and Boris both earned their 30 pieces of silver? Would you agree it was money well spent?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...son/news/76802/ken-clarke-michael-gove-should


I like Ken Clarke. One of the old good'ns. Now listen to what he has to say.

 

[Erasmus]

I assume Gove was put up as the 'stop Boris' candidate by party grandees. He'll get a decent cabinet post afterwards for his sacrifice...

 

[Signalcalc]

The remainians protests do make me laugh, if you were really angry and not just Facebook angry you would not be holding peaceful protests that will illicit no change whatsoever. You would be smashing and burning things to show your displeasure.

 

[forker]

You did believe his every word during the Brexit campaign did you not? Where's your loyalty to your leader now?

How about Boris? Did you trust him too?

Some people are so quick to abandon their leaders

Think Gove and Boris both earned their 30 pieces of silver? Would you agree it was money well spent?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...son/news/76802/ken-clarke-michael-gove-should


I like Ken Clarke. One of the old good'ns. Now listen to what he has to say.

How do you know who I do or don't believe? Are we back at this chestnut!

 

[Mr. Charts]

The remainians protests do make me laugh, if you were really angry and not just Facebook angry you would not be holding peaceful protests that will illicit no change whatsoever. You would be smashing and burning things to show your displeasure.

Happily most people are non-violent.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Gove is a man of integrity and has love of GB in him. He spear headed the leave campaign and we should listen to him as he knows what he is talking about

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...igorous-denies-wanting-to-be-pm-archive-video

 

[Atilla]

Hang on just a minute MrCharts, don't be too hasty like our politicians. There is more :whistling

Michael Gove said the legal notification won’t be made this year if he becomes prime minister, echoing comments made by Theresa May. The foot-dragging sets up a clash with the 27 remaining heads of government, who said this week that the U.K. needs to move “as quickly as possible” to start the two-year Brexit process.

“We control the timing of when we trigger Article 50, and we will do it when we’re good and ready,” Gove, the justice secretary in Cameron’s government, told reporters in London on Friday as he set out his bid for the leadership of the ruling Conservative Party. He said his government would conduct “extensive preliminary talks” before invoking the article, adding: “We need to make sure we have the best possible deal.”

This is like telling the Europeans, we now going to hold you over the barrel and probe you to see what you can give us to stay in. Otherwise we will withdraw. :whistling

 

[mike.]

It appears even the EU dont know the brexit procedure...Cecilia Malmström EU trade commissioner said the other day in an interview that "trade negotiations will only begin to take place 2 years after article 50 has been triggered and the uk has officially left the EU", yet Juncker has said he wants article 50 triggered asap so trade negotiations can begin...

 

[Splitlink]

It appears even the EU dont know the brexit procedure...Cecilia Malmström EU trade commissioner said the other day in an interview that "trade negotiations will only begin to take place 2 years after article 50 has been triggered and the uk has officially left the EU", yet Juncker has said he wants article 50 triggered asap so trade negotiations can begin...

I'm surprised at that. I thought that talks started as soon as notification was received by Brussels andv that they would end, whether completed, or not, two years later with the UK's exit from EU.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Good to see EU politicians/bureaucrats are also pig ignorant.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Split,
And I thought Spanish practices were confined to the UK

 

[mike.]

I'm surprised at that. I thought that talks started as soon as notification was received by Brussels andv that they would end, whether completed, or not, two years later with the UK's exit from EU.

Yes, she possibly hasnt been informed that the scaremongering has stopped just yet or she doesn't talk to Mr.Juncker.....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36678222

This is how Liam Fox reacted to her comments....,

Quote:
" the Leave campaigner criticised the EU's top trade official Cecilia Malmstrom after she told the BBC's Newsnight programme the UK cannot begin trade talks with the bloc until after it has left.Dr Fox warned that the EU Commission needs to take a "sensible approach", describing Ms Malmstrom's comments as the most "bizarre and stupid position" which would harm all EU countries."

 

[Splitlink]

Split,
And I thought Spanish practices were confined to the UK

Oh, no. You should not have left. Spain can teach British politicians a lot. To come back to Pujol. In his case we are talking about hundreds of millions of Euros. Barcenas, a measly forty odd...

 

[Atilla]

English is not her main language. Perhaps she's been miss quoted or she meant something else.

Alternatively, it could mean the first two years covers disengaging bureaucracy and then once UK is out then trade negotiations can start.

I don't understand what our politicians playing at.

Cameron calls opportunistic referendum to sort out Tory party.

Goes to negotiate with referendum hanging over EU club.

Comes back with essentially 4 year deal for controlling migrants inflows.

UK votes - led by politicians to curb free movement of labour, cutting EU bureaucracy and giving £350m to save our NHS and schools so they don't have to wait in queues.

EU accepts and says let's do this!

UK (ie Gove one of two referendum leader) says one minute old chaps let us all have one last “extensive preliminary talks” before invoking the article, adding: “We need to make sure we have the best possible deal.”


That's real funny! What clowns do we have here?

I'm struggling to know what the two ladies in the house will be able to deliver. Norway deal or the door. I'm sure some rabbits must be loitering in their hair do.

Very enjoyable. The Aussies with their 6th election in 6 years apparently find UK politics more interesting.

Well we've found our match for Berlusconi and Mitterrand. Boris and Gove. The Laurel and Hardy of UK politics. Although that's not fair on Laurel and Hardy as everyone loved them.

 

[donaldduke]

I listen with incredulity at some of the morons on the radio who now say they didn't really want to Brexit even though they voted to do so – until now I couldn't believe there are people that stupid.

In trading people make emotional decisions all the time, especially when starting out.
Who hasn't placed a trade they knew they shouldn't be making?
Who hasn't revenge traded with huge size relative to account equity?

 

[tomorton]

Seems likely we're going to become "associate" members of the EU and will abide by some directives / treaty conditions and be exempt from others. If all goes well.

So maybe the fact that we have a referendum majority for exit makes for a stronger hand when we re-negotiate with Brussels, i.e. its clear we're not bluffing, the majority did vote out. Maybe this could work out OK long-term.