Autotrading systems and Best Setups

[NVP]

Hi All....

Not sure if this is right place to post this as It concerns Techie / Hardware stuff........however I am still very much on my 1st steps so it goes here !!

Assuming one can Autotrade the market (using 24/7 hardware with live Market feeds and software to manage buy/sell signals) I would like some advice on following questions :-

1) Are there any recommended setups/combos re above that are robust enough to work but economic enough to purchase & run daily (eg I cant afford NASA Mission Control !)

2) to what level of sophistication can you programme "affordable" trading software ? (eg I would like to utilise software/system that allows me to monitor a few simple indicators re entry point, and then some possibly more slightly complex exit criteria that would involve a trailing stop loss.....all this in and out of market on single contract/bet basis as required 24/7)

3) are there any intruments/markets this is more popular/usual with ? - eg can it be done with SB companies or is it more usual for CFD's,EFT's Options etc etc ??

4) what are the common pitfalls / risks re above ? (aside from an unprofitable strategy !!)

I work a long day (dont we all !!!) and if I can set something up along the lines above it will be better for me initially than an hour or so a day in the evening trading markets I probably dont want to (+ may instigate incorrect trades due to time constraints/frustration)... ...also I recognise I could Position Trade but so far the initial experimentation/research performed has lead me more towards more short term, real time based trading..........

Thanks in advance !
NVP

 

[Strategic Trader]

the biggest pitfall is to believe that by having a computer and some software and a bit of spare time - that you can make money trading

but it is easy to make money trading though - you just need to sit in front of a trading screen day in day out for a year and spend every second of the day analysing what happened in the markets that day - and then start trading for another year or so - and at the end of that time - you will be on the first step of the ladder - but its worth it though - its a real high ladder - and unlike most ladders - the higher you go - the safer it is - its getting to the first rung that normally cracks skulls

or take the short cut and start sellling trading systems for $24.99 that will make people millions - and let the money roll in

 

[JonnyT]

NVP, drop me a PM

 

[NVP]

the biggest pitfall is to believe that by having a computer and some software and a bit of spare time - that you can make money trading

but it is easy to make money trading though - you just need to sit in front of a trading screen day in day out for a year and spend every second of the day analysing what happened in the markets that day - and then start trading for another year or so - and at the end of that time - you will be on the first step of the ladder - but its worth it though - its a real high ladder - and unlike most ladders - the higher you go - the safer it is - its getting to the first rung that normally cracks skulls

or take the short cut and start sellling trading systems for $24.99 that will make people millions - and let the money roll in

I totally agree ST .....I am not envisaging it will be easy at all or that I will even last the course........ "autosystem" methodology for me personally creates the discipline I need not to follow more subjective systems that look good after eyeballing charts for a while.

I'll let you know re the Black box systems though !!

Regards
NVP

 

[shogun]

nvp what is your javascript like, do you understand it can you write it if not are you prepared to learn it , if the answer is yes then you have a chance others may disagree but for a learner i would say the best route to automated trading is using the following setup

1/ esignal so you can write your own trading program with there .efs editor,
you can program any indicator you can think of , ( ma,rsi,bollinger bands, stochastic,volume ) you can even think up your own and program them as well,

2/ Dynaorder so you can process the orders ( this also has a papertrade facility so you can test your strategy before you put down your hard earned money.

3/ Interactive Brokers account this is the cheapest way to get your order to the market ,

there are others who offer all in systems like Tradestation but you will have to stump up $25000 to open a account with them , as for using the spreadbet companies that is not a option with auto trading .
hope this helps ,

i would issue a word of warning with autotrading if you are going to leave it running when you are not there you are liable for all losses if any part of the system fails so test test test before you use it,

 

[mr_cassandra]

Excellent post

Good content, useful to the person who asked a question.

I grow discouraged sometimes when I see how many people seem to enjoy thinking up a pithy comment when someone asks a legitimate question.

nvp what is your javascript like, do you understand it can you write it if not are you prepared to learn it , if the answer is yes then you have a chance others may disagree but for a learner i would say the best route to automated trading is using the following setup

1/ esignal so you can write your own trading program with there .efs editor,
you can program any indicator you can think of , ( ma,rsi,bollinger bands, stochastic,volume ) you can even think up your own and program them as well,

2/ Dynaorder so you can process the orders ( this also has a papertrade facility so you can test your strategy before you put down your hard earned money.

3/ Interactive Brokers account this is the cheapest way to get your order to the market ,

there are others who offer all in systems like Tradestation but you will have to stump up $25000 to open a account with them , as for using the spreadbet companies that is not a option with auto trading .
hope this helps ,

i would issue a word of warning with autotrading if you are going to leave it running when you are not there you are liable for all losses if any part of the system fails so test test test before you use it,

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Useful thread from another board about the practicalities of this approach . . .

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=49093&perpage=6&pagenumber=1

 

[Directional]

for testing an idea, Tradestation is a great route and their Easylanguage programming script for defining setups is quite easy to learn, and as you get more advanced it is also capable of some very complex strategies.

It is available without an account as a subscription only, though I think this costs extra - but you will probably want an account if you plan to make use of the built in order automation features. For futures accounts, you only need $5000 / £3000 to start your account off with.

Disadvantages of tradestation are that it currently only caters for US markets.

Common pitfalls with any strategy are curve fitting, using limit orders, and failing to account for slippage or commissions in your results.

 

[commanderco]

Hi NVP,

What you are looking for is called a "shortcut" and so having cleared that up, let us assume that you are interested in trading for a living.
Firstly you need a plan ... this has got to come from you and you will need some knowledge of the markets to write the plan ... a bit of a catch twenty two really.
What markets do you plan to trade?
What time periods?
Trend trader or momentum?
I can go on and on ..... however this is what you need to do before you open an account.
For what it is worth I am a REFCO / E Signal boy because it suits me.
Naturally, you are going to ask me if I would walk out the door and leave an automated system running.
NO!!! ... I simply know too much and most particularily I know what happens when things go wrong. I and all other successful treaders can write the book on "what happens when things go wrong"
Hope this helps

 

[jmreeve]

Automated trading is actually a long cut.

Putting together a system that can automatically trade anything other than the most simple strategy is a very difficult thing to do.

If you are not able to trade during the day because you are doing a job and are not proficient at writing software then the best thing you can do to save yourself a lot of wasted time and money is to concentrate on using end-of-day systems and trading them by hand.

Automation is really only useful for getting better faster execution on short term trading systems and not for overcoming the fact you are unable to trade because you are doing something else.

 

[TWI]

I started fully automated on Tradestation about 18 months ago. Previous to that I had run systems and entered orders manually. There were many issues to overcome with the automation and even today I have some issues such as missed executions or loss of connection or unexplained things. Only 2 weeks ago, came in one morning to find that a exit (market) order had not been filled and that ended up costing me $1000. So you have to account for this in your slippage. Overall I am happy to leave it running 24hrs but I have to keep size in any single market fairly small in order to feel comfortable while I am not at my desk. If I had a full time job outside of trading I would not feel too good about doing this at all.
Other issues are with the code. Easylanguage has limitations which are hard to work around. Fortunately there are some very good developers on the TS forum who have written some great solutions but it has taken a long time to integrate this to solve some fairly easy problems such as exiting on the close of day. To be fair to TS they are continually updating things and have improved EL a lot over the last 2 years but I still found the biggest obstacle was taking what was a profitable portfolio of systems and making them into something which could be executed automatically. The entire process cost me considerable PnL as the only way to test things in this environment is to actually run them.
Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

If you buy an Up-index Fund and buy a Down-index Fund and then alternate buying and selling them, and compound the profits, it is like an automatic account increase. But it takes many years to build up an account that way.

If you are in a hurry to build up your resources you need 2 contracts with correlation 1. But if you lack the facilities, or have insufficient funding it may be a problem. Not impossible just takes longer.

 

[xux99]

CMS Forex offers VT Trader as a trading platform. It is free for the clients and has the option to autotrade its built-in systems. You can also make your own systems. There are no additional fees for auto trading.