Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

[Atilla]

Thanks trendie and David.
A little background to the questions I've posed. . .
I'm a member of another forum (nothing to do with trading) and, like here, there's a coronavirus thread in their equivalent of our Foyer. As a lockdown sceptic, I've angered other members by suggesting that people have already died - and many more will die in the months ahead - due to serious illness such as cancer not being diagnosed and treated as promptly as it otherwise would. To my surprise, this has proved to be very controversial (I thought it's widely accepted to be the case) and my critics are demanding that I post evidence to support my claim. Needless to say, there aren't pretty bar charts from the likes of the ONS, NHS etc. showing these kinds of stats - so I'm struggling to find something that's likely to be acceptable as 'proof'.
Tim.

Hi Tim,

Just a quick cursory oogle and found this.

Cancer deaths in homes in England soar 50 per cent since start of Covid-19

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) has released startling figures looking at deaths in private homes in England and Wales since the start of the Covid-19 epidemic

www.mirror.co.uk

Some references in there for the ONS

 

[postman]

Thanks trendie and David.
A little background to the questions I've posed. . .
I'm a member of another forum (nothing to do with trading) and, like here, there's a coronavirus thread in their equivalent of our Foyer. As a lockdown sceptic, I've angered other members by suggesting that people have already died - and many more will die in the months ahead - due to serious illness such as cancer not being diagnosed and treated as promptly as it otherwise would. To my surprise, this has proved to be very controversial (I thought it's widely accepted to be the case) and my critics are demanding that I post evidence to support my claim. Needless to say, there aren't pretty bar charts from the likes of the ONS, NHS etc. showing these kinds of stats - so I'm struggling to find something that's likely to be acceptable as 'proof'.
Tim.

Cancer research.
Data on frequency.

• There are around 367,000 new cancer cases in the UK every year, that's around 1,000 every day (2015-2017).
• 164,900 people die

Cancer Statistics for the UK

The latest cancer statistics for the UK for Health Professionals. See data for Survival, Incidence, Mortality, Risk and more.

www.cancerresearchuk.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Lancet - Oncology.
The pre-eminent articles on cancer research in the UK are published here.

"Background​

Since a national lockdown was introduced across the UK in March, 2020, in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, cancer screening has been suspended, routine diagnostic work deferred, and only urgent symptomatic cases prioritised for diagnostic intervention. In this study, we estimated the impact of delays in diagnosis on cancer survival outcomes in four major tumour types.

Interpretation​

Substantial increases in the number of avoidable cancer deaths in England are to be expected as a result of diagnostic delays due to the COVID-19 pandemic in the UK. Urgent policy interventions are necessary, particularly the need to manage the backlog within routine diagnostic services to mitigate the expected impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on patients with cancer."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(20)30388-0/fulltext

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A substantial increase on PREVENTABLE deaths from cancer is expected!
Looking at the data up to 200,000 more people per year could die, (worst case scenario).

Covid testing centers are empty around the country.
Hospital beds are empty around the country.
Doctors, dentists ... the list of people being adversely affected by Government policy dwarfs the number of deaths due purely to covid.

The Governments response to this virus is sickening.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

Well @timsk
Here's some ammunition from the BBC, quoting the ONS as a source:

More than 26,000 extra deaths occurred in private homes this year, an analysis by the Office for National Statistics found.

Between March and September 2020, there were 24,387 more deaths in England than expected in private homes, and 1,644 in Wales. The large majority did not involve Covid-19.
Of these, an extra 1,705 men died from heart disease in their own homes in England compared with the average number over the previous five years.
This is 25% more than normal. In Wales there was a similar rise in male deaths from heart disease, of 22.7%.

During the pandemic, about 1,400 more women than usual died at home from dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

Compared with normal years, there were more deaths at home from a number of major causes including cancers and respiratory diseases.
The ONS figures show that deaths in private homes have been above the five-year average since the peak of the pandemic in early April, while deaths in hospitals have been lower than normal since the start of June.

Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, chairman of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said that equated to an extra 100 people dying at home every day.
"Usually around 300 people die each day in their homes in England and Wales," he commented.
"The latest ONS analysis confirms that even after the peak of the epidemic this has stayed at around 400 a day and shows no sign of declining. That's one third extra, very few of which are from Covid."
tha

All from official government data, so hard to dispute as propaganda.

Hope this will add some grist to your mill.

😁

 

[timsk]

Thanks MOC - do you have a link please?
Cheers,
Tim.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

Thanks MOC - do you have a link please?
Cheers,
Tim.

Happy to oblige

Here you go:

Deaths at home: More than 26,000 extra this year, ONS finds

Far more people are dying at home in England and Wales than normal from heart disease and dementia.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[David Knight]

A favour from subscribers to this thread, pretty please . . .
Is anyone able to provide links to a credible source (e.g. ONS, NHS or PHE etc.) that shows:
1. The drop off in numbers of hospital appointments for cancer screening, diagnosis and treatment since the onset of Covid and associated restrictions.
2. The decline in treatments for diseases like cancer, pneumonia and heart disease etc. since the onset of Covid, and the likely impact this has on the annual death toll? I.e. how many excess deaths are there due to the current policies than would otherwise be expected to die in a 'normal' (i.e. non Covid) year.
3. The decline in death toll in hospitals from diseases such as cancer, pneumonia and heart disease etc. this year since the onset of Covid and subsequent restrictions.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Tim.

​

COVID-19 disruption will lead to 28 million surgeries cancelled worldwide​

...In the United Kingdom, the National Health Service advised hospitals to cancel most elective surgeries for 12 weeks. It is estimated that this will result in 516,000 cancelled surgeries, including 36,000 cancer procedures. These cancellations will create a backlog that will need to be cleared after the COVID-19 disruption ends.

If, after the disruption ends, the NHS increases the number of surgeries performed each week by 20% compared to pre-pandemic activity, it will take 11 months to clear the backlog. However, each additional week of disruption will lead to the cancellation of an extra 43,300 surgeries, significantly extending the period it will take to clear the backlog.

source

I would emphasise that this plandemic is planned to go for several years-(I'll provide something further to illustrate that) so the figures could probablly get worse.

I would also take this opportunity to share the followng. You may have noticed many staged photos of people being tested with nasal swabs while seated in their car as if at a checkpoint. Probably predictive programming to get people used to the idea of being tested.

On mentioning this to my partner she asked a friend who is a UK nurse whether they are testing in this way before carrying out ops. Yes they are and (not surprisingly) it's uncomfortable as it also includes throat swabs. No test, no OP. A simple saliva test would suffice even if the test was valid which it can't be since covid 19 has never been isolated (see vid)

 

[David Knight]

Top doctor shortage is risking 'catastrophe': Hospitals urgently need more consultants as they face huge backlog of treatment, medical union warns​

Hospitals are battling a 'potentially catastrophic' shortage of consultants, as they face a huge backlog of treatment because of the pandemic, the British Medical Association warns today.

BMA
‘It’s not just the BMA who has highlighted these problems, but a gamut of some of the country’s most respected medical bodies and the Government must listen. It is crucial that our recommendations are thoroughly considered, and detailed plans are drawn up to address this crisis both for now and in the future.'

(Ignoring for now, that the BMA believes there's a pandemic when there clearly is not)

 

[timsk]

I never watch breakfast TV, so Richard Madeley isn't really on my radar. My mistake. Given what he says here and in other interviews I've heard that he's given to TalkRadio - he deserves to be taken seriously. I can't fault anything he says. Enjoy . . .

 

[new_trader]

I never watch breakfast TV, so Richard Madeley isn't really on my radar. My mistake. Given what he says here and in other interviews I've heard that he's given to TalkRadio - he deserves to be taken seriously. I can't fault anything he says. Enjoy . . .

More and more people are abandoning the doomsday cult. I was never a member. Also, more and more people at work, and other places are saying to me, what I was saying months ago:

I DON'T KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS HAD COVID-19!​

 

[cantagril]

More and more people are abandoning the doomsday cult. I was never a member. Also, more and more people at work, and other places are saying to me, what I was saying months ago:

I DON'T KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS HAD COVID-19!​

Interesting. I suppose this must be partly geographical. After all the current surges are not widely distributed. That said, I'm in South London atm and I know three people in the UK who had the virus* and two of them are dead.

*several more in Europe

 

[timsk]

Of all the articles I've read, posts on here and elsewhere that I've viewed and countless YouTube videos watched, the podcast below is perhaps the most revelatory and, without wishing to sound too tabloid hyperbole - explosive. It's very long, so I'll outline what you'll hear to help you decide whether or not it's worth listenning to.

It's on James Delingpole's YouTube channel, 'The Delingpod' and is an interview with Dr. Mike Yeadon. For those of you not familiar with him, he is a scientist with a degree in biochemistry and toxicology, a research-based PhD in respiratory pharmacology, has spent over 30 years leading new medicines research in the pharmaceuticals industry, culminating in being Vice President & Chief Scientist for Allergy & Respiratory at Pfizer, before leaving to found his own biotech company, Ziarco, which he sold to the world’s biggest drug company, Novartis, in 2017. Suffice to say, he's a highly qualified and very experienced scientist and not just some flaky conspiracy theorist seeking the limelight.

I've posted TalkRadio interviews with Yeadon on Julia Hartley-Brewer's show and commented that I like him because he pulls no punches and doesn't shy away from calling people out. And boy oh boy does he do that here. He explains in detail how and why SAGE have got the situation completely wrong. That in itself is an eye openner. But he reserves his main criticism for Sir Patrick Vallance, who he accuses of knowingly and deliberately lying. Not only that, he actually invites Sir Patrick to sue him over his comments because he's very confident that if it went to court that he would win.

He further postulates that Sir Patrick won't commence legal poroceedings against him for three reasons:
1. Vallance will just ignore Yeadon's accusations in the hope and expectation that nothing will come of them. To sue Yeadon would provide him with publicity and a media furore would likely result.
2. Vallance doesn't realise what he's said and done is wrong, which would render him totally incompetant and unfit for the job.
3. Vallance knows that Yeadon is right and, not only would he would lose the case but, with it, his career and reputation.

If Vallance were to sue Yeadon and he won, it's probable that Yeadon could afford to pay for damages. The financial details of the sale of Ziarco to Novartis were not disclosed, but estimates suggest the deal might be worth up to $1 billion through a combination of upfront payments, milestones and royalties.

Anyway, I hope that serves as a useful introduction for the podcast. During the interview, Yeadon refers to an article by him published on Lockdown Sceptics, which can be found here: What SAGE Has Got Wrong

 

[David Knight]

Thanks trendie and David.
A little background to the questions I've posed. . .
I'm a member of another forum (nothing to do with trading) and, like here, there's a coronavirus thread in their equivalent of our Foyer. As a lockdown sceptic, I've angered other members by suggesting that people have already died - and many more will die in the months ahead - due to serious illness such as cancer not being diagnosed and treated as promptly as it otherwise would. To my surprise, this has proved to be very controversial (I thought it's widely accepted to be the case) and my critics are demanding that I post evidence to support my claim. Needless to say, there aren't pretty bar charts from the likes of the ONS, NHS etc. showing these kinds of stats - so I'm struggling to find something that's likely to be acceptable as 'proof'.
Tim.

What feedback have you had Tim, can you give us an update?

 

[timsk]

What feedback have you had Tim, can you give us an update?

Hi David,
I've had it in mind to do this for a few days now, mainly out of courtesy to you and the others who kindly helped me out. However, such is the nature of online community forums, there's no neat solution. There's a surprise, not! Essentially, there's a cabal on the forum in question (BuildHub - it's for DIYers and self-builders) who act as self appointed gatekeepers to protect the mainstream narrative. They criticise anyone who deviates from it without saying what they would do to improve the dire state of affairs we're all in. Its very negative. One of my critics dismissed Prof. Sunetra Gupta and her fellow signatories to the Great Barrington Declaration as a "maverick band of cocksuckers"! Heaven only knows what he'd make of you David!


I don't recommend it, but if anyone is interested, here's a link to a post of mine that is at the start of the altercation:

https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/13843-covid-19all-things-coronavirus/?do=findComment&comment=274368

The two main usernames of the people who've taken umbrage at my posts are 'SteamyTea' and 'kxi'. I'd like to post a duplicate of the one from this morning to the Yeadon interview with James Delingpole, but the fuss from last weekend has subsided now and a post like that will be a red rag to a bull. I'm afraid I can't be doing with the grief. I know, I'm pathetic, but hey ho!

Anyway, thanks once again for your support chaps - much appreciated.
Tim.

 

[David Knight]

Hi David,
I've had it in mind to do this for a few days now, mainly out of courtesy to you and the others who kindly helped me out. However, such is the nature of online community forums, there's no neat solution. There's a surprise, not! Essentially, there's a cabal on the forum in question (BuildHub - it's for DIYers and self-builders) who act as self appointed gatekeepers to protect the mainstream narrative. They criticise anyone who deviates from it without saying what they would do to improve the dire state of affairs we're all in. Its very negative. One of my critics dismissed Prof. Sunetra Gupta and her fellow signatories to the Great Barrington Declaration as a "maverick band of cocksuckers"! Heaven only knows what he'd make of you David!


I don't recommend it, but if anyone is interested, here's a link to a post of mine that is at the start of the altercation:

https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/13843-covid-19all-things-coronavirus/?do=findComment&comment=274368

The two main usernames of the people who've taken umbrage at my posts are 'SteamyTea' and 'kxi'. I'd like to post a duplicate of the one from this morning to the Yeadon interview with James Delingpole, but the fuss from last weekend has subsided now and a post like that will be a red rag to a bull. I'm afraid I can't be doing with the grief. I know, I'm pathetic, but hey ho!

Anyway, thanks once again for your support chaps - much appreciated.
Tim.

'Heaven only knows what he'd make of you David'!

fair play mate

I think videos of people testing apples or nothing at all and getting back positive results are the best way to reach people who can't see anything wrong. Or follow the money re vax and things of that nature etc.

You tried Tim, so good for you. Never know how many were reading silently in the background.

 

[Pat494]

It amazes me that Vietnam is claiming that nobody there has died from The Virus.
Are they fiddling the figures ? If not then the other countries ought to take note at what they did right.

 

[David Knight]

Coronavirus: Test centres across UK hotspot appear virtually empty​

March= empty hospitals
October= empty test centres

 

[Pat494]

I see The Virus is making a comeback in the North of England.
Probably not too surprising when they are shown on telly partying in the street unmasked and hugging each other.

 

[barjon]

Funny isn’t how the internet with its wealth of information seems to have polarised argument and closed minds rather the other way round. Perhaps there’s too much information out there - it’s so easy to find “facts” that support ones own view and “eminent people” who share that view, as it is to do the same for supporting the opposing view. Then, of course, many share the Trump method of argument by pounding away with the “facts” and “views” that suit them whilst dismissing all else as “fake news” or “lies”. Worse, even, is that it all becomes quite vicious (as Tim has found elsewhere).

As with most things I guess the truth rests somewhere in the grey and not at the black or white edges and can be found by civilised and open minded debate.

 

[Atilla]

Funny isn’t how the internet with its wealth of information seems to have polarised argument and closed minds rather the other way round. Perhaps there’s too much information out there - it’s so easy to find “facts” that support ones own view and “eminent people” who share that view, as it is to do the same for supporting the opposing view. Then, of course, many share the Trump method of argument by pounding away with the “facts” and “views” that suit them whilst dismissing all else as “fake news” or “lies”. Worse, even, is that it all becomes quite vicious (as Tim has found elsewhere).

As with most things I guess the truth rests somewhere in the grey and not at the black or white edges and can be found by civilised and open minded debate.

I don't see have that invalidates opinions.

Before people were led. Now 'the people' can judge and determine for them selves what they believe. They have a choice what to read and believe. News is news. Whether it comes from the BBC or some small media outlet.

Those who can't be asked to look into the detail will still blindly follow what is said to them by those dressed in big fancy robes and head gear, living in big magnificent buildings. There is an innate tendency to dress up simple beings to a grandiose stature. Giving them a stick helps as well. Also sitting them in big elevated chairs.

You get the picture.

 

[counter_violent]

Funny isn’t how the internet with its wealth of information seems to have polarised argument and closed minds rather the other way round. Perhaps there’s too much information out there - it’s so easy to find “facts” that support ones own view and “eminent people” who share that view, as it is to do the same for supporting the opposing view. Then, of course, many share the Trump method of argument by pounding away with the “facts” and “views” that suit them whilst dismissing all else as “fake news” or “lies”. Worse, even, is that it all becomes quite vicious (as Tim has found elsewhere).

As with most things I guess the truth rests somewhere in the grey and not at the black or white edges and can be found by civilised and open minded debate.

Individuals are now charged with finding truth, since MSM gave up on that a long time ago.