I was wondering if anyone could offer me advice. I've been offered a place on a training scheme to be a backed trader with Schneider. The training for this is three months. I'm also at the last interview stage with futex for their 6 month graduate training scheme to become a backed trader. I believe Futex's training is more thourough and that they encourage you to develope your own trading style, rather than telling you what and how to trade as it sounded at Schneider. Can anyone offer me advice on which offer to accept, if i do get offered the futex one. Does anyone know much about the two? If anyone could do so that would be very appretiated.
if its trading bonds - they all pretty much train you to trade the same way - but since you seem to feel futex is better - start your trading intuition now and go with them -either way - this is the only way you are going to learn to trade and exposure to either is going to give you the basis to go onto become a trader
they will probably both have around the same costs - and profit share opportunities - but the key is that regardless of anything - if they will spend time teaching you a usable methodology and provide support over months as you learn real trading and also underwrite your trading - this is the only way to really learn trading and to become a trader - so you need to look at it in the same way you would look at a university course - it takes a few years to learn the basics of trading and if you can do that without any cost to yourself - it does not matter who you go with
there will be some with opinions of specific companies -but be careful of anyone's specific views - since losing traders always blame someone else - and that is why they are losing traders -because if you dont blame yourself - you will never correct you mistakes
there will be some with opinions of specific companies -but be careful of anyone's specific views - since losing traders always blame someone else - and that is why they are losing traders -because if you dont blame yourself - you will never correct you mistakes
TWI
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There are arcades out there charging very high costs per side, with these costs you will greatly reduce your chances of making money and this can be very damaging for confidence. When people start on these schemes they have no idea what are good and bad costs. Forget the monthly rental, that will literally pay for you being in an office with your kit, it is unlikely you could do it cheaper from home. It is transaction cost you need to be aware of. I would think reasonable for starter would be around 50p/side.
All the arcades will teach you a methodology that will work, and after you know the basics the rest you will work out for yourself.
All the arcades will teach you a methodology that will work, and after you know the basics the rest you will work out for yourself.
twalker
once you are in an arcade - you are gonna pretty soon get to know the right costs - regardless of what you start on - and you can normally see the rates on request and tney should be way below retail - what rates have you seen an arcade charge?
once you are in an arcade - you are gonna pretty soon get to know the right costs - regardless of what you start on - and you can normally see the rates on request and tney should be way below retail - what rates have you seen an arcade charge?
TWI
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stevet,
They vary and usually are on a declinign scale based on volume. Naturally each person take a cut. Take Liffe they charge 56p exchange fee, the rest is split between the clearer and the arcade and each deal is negotiated seperately. The clearing deals are obviously going to be based on how much volume you are likely to bring to the clearer.
I pay a reasonable rate, that I will not state here but I will say that most trainee schemes seem to charge between 90p and 120p/rt. This is generally more than is charged to self funded guys but is fair enough if funding somebody. thing is i think 120 will be prohibitive to profitability for most traders for a long time. Consider what 20p amounts to over 20,000 rt's.
They vary and usually are on a declinign scale based on volume. Naturally each person take a cut. Take Liffe they charge 56p exchange fee, the rest is split between the clearer and the arcade and each deal is negotiated seperately. The clearing deals are obviously going to be based on how much volume you are likely to bring to the clearer.
I pay a reasonable rate, that I will not state here but I will say that most trainee schemes seem to charge between 90p and 120p/rt. This is generally more than is charged to self funded guys but is fair enough if funding somebody. thing is i think 120 will be prohibitive to profitability for most traders for a long time. Consider what 20p amounts to over 20,000 rt's.
twalker
the rates you are talking about are way better than retail and its just a way for the arcade to stand a chance of recouping some of the learning traders losses when the learner starts to get a positive p&l
my point is that if the arcade is responsible for the brokerage - it doesn't really matter what they charge as long as it aint too crazy - since it is giving someone the chance to learn at zero cost to them - and if they start on low volume - once they get good - they start playing some real size - and that should obliterate prior mistakes and prior fees
there are a lot on this forum pissing away fortunes to spreadbetting companies thinking that they are learning about trading - when they are really just learning to lose to spreadbetting companies - so that is the context of my remarks - if you can get professionally trained over a period of time and get underwritten to trade - grab the opportunity with both hands - even so the chance of real success is not that great - but sure beats mopping up in mcdonalds
the rates you are talking about are way better than retail and its just a way for the arcade to stand a chance of recouping some of the learning traders losses when the learner starts to get a positive p&l
my point is that if the arcade is responsible for the brokerage - it doesn't really matter what they charge as long as it aint too crazy - since it is giving someone the chance to learn at zero cost to them - and if they start on low volume - once they get good - they start playing some real size - and that should obliterate prior mistakes and prior fees
there are a lot on this forum pissing away fortunes to spreadbetting companies thinking that they are learning about trading - when they are really just learning to lose to spreadbetting companies - so that is the context of my remarks - if you can get professionally trained over a period of time and get underwritten to trade - grab the opportunity with both hands - even so the chance of real success is not that great - but sure beats mopping up in mcdonalds
TWI
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Stevet,
Depends what style of trading you employ.
Rates need to be far better than retail for locals in the arcades as we rely on scalping.
You have to realise that tick value determines what is reasonable cost. If you trade Euribor for example you have a ~£8.60 per tick. It is a case of how many spreads you can trade and still take a profit bearing in mind that a lot of trades will be scratched for zero PnL and so costs mount up.
Believe me I have been in this game long enough to know that costs are the most important component. Every month my costs are more than my net PnL. The real winners in the market are the Exchange and clearer, not the locals.
If I was paying 1.20/rt my PnL would be substantially reduced. If I look back at my trading records for the first 6 months- 1 year I am sure I would have lost money every month.
Fortunately there are plenty of arcades who are not that greedy and these are the ones I would be recommending. Try to find one with costs around £1 or less and make sure there is a sliding scale with volume.
Depends what style of trading you employ.
Rates need to be far better than retail for locals in the arcades as we rely on scalping.
You have to realise that tick value determines what is reasonable cost. If you trade Euribor for example you have a ~£8.60 per tick. It is a case of how many spreads you can trade and still take a profit bearing in mind that a lot of trades will be scratched for zero PnL and so costs mount up.
Believe me I have been in this game long enough to know that costs are the most important component. Every month my costs are more than my net PnL. The real winners in the market are the Exchange and clearer, not the locals.
If I was paying 1.20/rt my PnL would be substantially reduced. If I look back at my trading records for the first 6 months- 1 year I am sure I would have lost money every month.
Fortunately there are plenty of arcades who are not that greedy and these are the ones I would be recommending. Try to find one with costs around £1 or less and make sure there is a sliding scale with volume.
thanks for the advice guys. I think i'm going to pick schneider on the basis that i'd prefer not to relocate to Surrey, and that the cummute would be too much and that if i've got what it takes to become a good trader then i should make it regardless of who i choose, and as you said either one will provide me with useful training for free. My initial worry with Schneider was that they take on a lot of people without trying as hard as futex do to select the right people, and then, as i have heard, drop people every month. At Futex i'm sure since they've had such a long recruitment process, that they'll offer the trainees more encouragement and support, and care more about whether they succeed or not. But i don't think that this should be a worry, because it should only motivate me more to try to do well at Schneider, and that i'll get out of the training what i put in. It's totally up to me whether i'll be good enough to do well out of trading. The other thing that had drawn me towards Futex was that the training is twice as long, and so i can only imagine that you learn more. You learn about trading different things, and different markets and are encouraged to develope your own trading style. Schneider's scheme is for trading futures in bonds only, but i'm thinking if I can get good at this and make money out of this, then later on down the line I can start thinking about what else I can trade and be in a position to find out about that. Also since the training period for Schneider is shorter, i should start earning earlier, so there will be less of a strain financially on me. I don't know what rates either charge, but I do remember Schneider saying there's were reasonable. Their desk fee was £1800/mth i think, and the split was initially 70/30 in my favour, rather than 50/50 at Futex. So should I get an offer from Futex, I think i'll turn it down in favour of Schneider, based on all these reasons. Thanks very much for helping me, and if you could let me know what you think of my decision and the reasoning behind it that would be appretiated as well cheers
if you feel schneider is best - go with it - and then learn learn learn
it will take 3 years of day in day out trading before you can really start to call yourself a trader - like everyone - you will feel that you will be hot stuff in months - but you wont! so dont try -just try not to lose too much each day, then try to just make a small consistent amount each day, and then over time try to raise that amount bit by bit - but always consistent
and forget asking adice on here about reading - most books are written by losers and then recomended by people who are beginers and dont have a clue -so reading books can get some real bad stuff into your head
just ask the people hiring you what if anything you should read
it will take 3 years of day in day out trading before you can really start to call yourself a trader - like everyone - you will feel that you will be hot stuff in months - but you wont! so dont try -just try not to lose too much each day, then try to just make a small consistent amount each day, and then over time try to raise that amount bit by bit - but always consistent
and forget asking adice on here about reading - most books are written by losers and then recomended by people who are beginers and dont have a clue -so reading books can get some real bad stuff into your head
just ask the people hiring you what if anything you should read
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And *that* my friend, is a really good piece of insight, which (putting my philosopher's hat on) applies to life in general as well. I am sure I knew much more when I was young, but perhaps I was just more certain that I knew it all... I know this applies to my first year of trading (last year), which is no doubt why I lost my money!
The only sure thing about life is you won't get out of it alive.
D
The only sure thing about life is you won't get out of it alive.
D
oatman said:How very true.
After 2 years you'll think you know it all. After 3 you'll realise how little you knew
minx
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I've heard a few bad things about the Schnider training program- fill the room and then start chopping people every fortnight until it's whittled down to one or two. I'd question them in depth about the stages of the training, their weeding out policy and the average life-span of their recruits. be careful.....
On the otherhand I've never heard of futex so cant compare really. Also are they going to pay you while you're training?
On the otherhand I've never heard of futex so cant compare really. Also are they going to pay you while you're training?
Klee,
You seem to have made you mind up regarding which company you will choose.
I know people who work on both Futex and STA. Futex has very good training, basically it does not compare with STA, It is longer and you will have a chance to learn to trade in a market that you are good. The only Drawback of their business model is that the splitts are not very competitive, but hey when you start making money and are confident in your skills you can go to another arcade.
STA is better on slitts but their training is not really a training, and they have high sit down fees. By the way the training is actually 1 month.
I would advise to go with Futex get the experience and the training cheaply and once you have acheived that then you are free to choose any company you like.
You seem to have made you mind up regarding which company you will choose.
I know people who work on both Futex and STA. Futex has very good training, basically it does not compare with STA, It is longer and you will have a chance to learn to trade in a market that you are good. The only Drawback of their business model is that the splitts are not very competitive, but hey when you start making money and are confident in your skills you can go to another arcade.
STA is better on slitts but their training is not really a training, and they have high sit down fees. By the way the training is actually 1 month.
I would advise to go with Futex get the experience and the training cheaply and once you have acheived that then you are free to choose any company you like.
