Advice needed - which training scheme?

klee

Newbie
3 0
I was wondering if anyone could offer me advice. I've been offered a place on a training scheme to be a backed trader with Schneider. The training for this is three months. I'm also at the last interview stage with futex for their 6 month graduate training scheme to become a backed trader. I believe Futex's training is more thourough and that they encourage you to develope your own trading style, rather than telling you what and how to trade as it sounded at Schneider. Can anyone offer me advice on which offer to accept, if i do get offered the futex one. Does anyone know much about the two? If anyone could do so that would be very appretiated.
 

stevet

Established member
917 5
if its trading bonds - they all pretty much train you to trade the same way - but since you seem to feel futex is better - start your trading intuition now and go with them -either way - this is the only way you are going to learn to trade and exposure to either is going to give you the basis to go onto become a trader
 

TWI

Senior member
2,532 253
Have they told you what your costs will be yet?
I would give consideration to the one that offers the best transaction cost as this is key but agree with stevet that you should go with gut feel if they are the same.
 

stevet

Established member
917 5
they will probably both have around the same costs - and profit share opportunities - but the key is that regardless of anything - if they will spend time teaching you a usable methodology and provide support over months as you learn real trading and also underwrite your trading - this is the only way to really learn trading and to become a trader - so you need to look at it in the same way you would look at a university course - it takes a few years to learn the basics of trading and if you can do that without any cost to yourself - it does not matter who you go with

there will be some with opinions of specific companies -but be careful of anyone's specific views - since losing traders always blame someone else - and that is why they are losing traders -because if you dont blame yourself - you will never correct you mistakes
 

TWI

Senior member
2,532 253
There are arcades out there charging very high costs per side, with these costs you will greatly reduce your chances of making money and this can be very damaging for confidence. When people start on these schemes they have no idea what are good and bad costs. Forget the monthly rental, that will literally pay for you being in an office with your kit, it is unlikely you could do it cheaper from home. It is transaction cost you need to be aware of. I would think reasonable for starter would be around 50p/side.
All the arcades will teach you a methodology that will work, and after you know the basics the rest you will work out for yourself.
 

stevet

Established member
917 5
twalker

once you are in an arcade - you are gonna pretty soon get to know the right costs - regardless of what you start on - and you can normally see the rates on request and tney should be way below retail - what rates have you seen an arcade charge?
 

TWI

Senior member
2,532 253
stevet,
They vary and usually are on a declinign scale based on volume. Naturally each person take a cut. Take Liffe they charge 56p exchange fee, the rest is split between the clearer and the arcade and each deal is negotiated seperately. The clearing deals are obviously going to be based on how much volume you are likely to bring to the clearer.
I pay a reasonable rate, that I will not state here but I will say that most trainee schemes seem to charge between 90p and 120p/rt. This is generally more than is charged to self funded guys but is fair enough if funding somebody. thing is i think 120 will be prohibitive to profitability for most traders for a long time. Consider what 20p amounts to over 20,000 rt's.
 

stevet

Established member
917 5
twalker

the rates you are talking about are way better than retail and its just a way for the arcade to stand a chance of recouping some of the learning traders losses when the learner starts to get a positive p&l

my point is that if the arcade is responsible for the brokerage - it doesn't really matter what they charge as long as it aint too crazy - since it is giving someone the chance to learn at zero cost to them - and if they start on low volume - once they get good - they start playing some real size - and that should obliterate prior mistakes and prior fees

there are a lot on this forum pissing away fortunes to spreadbetting companies thinking that they are learning about trading - when they are really just learning to lose to spreadbetting companies - so that is the context of my remarks - if you can get professionally trained over a period of time and get underwritten to trade - grab the opportunity with both hands - even so the chance of real success is not that great - but sure beats mopping up in mcdonalds
 

TWI

Senior member
2,532 253
Stevet,
Depends what style of trading you employ.
Rates need to be far better than retail for locals in the arcades as we rely on scalping.
You have to realise that tick value determines what is reasonable cost. If you trade Euribor for example you have a ~£8.60 per tick. It is a case of how many spreads you can trade and still take a profit bearing in mind that a lot of trades will be scratched for zero PnL and so costs mount up.
Believe me I have been in this game long enough to know that costs are the most important component. Every month my costs are more than my net PnL. The real winners in the market are the Exchange and clearer, not the locals.
If I was paying 1.20/rt my PnL would be substantially reduced. If I look back at my trading records for the first 6 months- 1 year I am sure I would have lost money every month.
Fortunately there are plenty of arcades who are not that greedy and these are the ones I would be recommending. Try to find one with costs around £1 or less and make sure there is a sliding scale with volume.
 

stevet

Established member
917 5
if you are a learner - get trained and get backed

if you are a trader at an arcade - leave the arcade and get your own account with a professional broker and/or get your own seat

you'll soon eat the T1, charting etc costs
 

klee

Newbie
3 0
thanks for the advice guys. I think i'm going to pick schneider on the basis that i'd prefer not to relocate to Surrey, and that the cummute would be too much and that if i've got what it takes to become a good trader then i should make it regardless of who i choose, and as you said either one will provide me with useful training for free. My initial worry with Schneider was that they take on a lot of people without trying as hard as futex do to select the right people, and then, as i have heard, drop people every month. At Futex i'm sure since they've had such a long recruitment process, that they'll offer the trainees more encouragement and support, and care more about whether they succeed or not. But i don't think that this should be a worry, because it should only motivate me more to try to do well at Schneider, and that i'll get out of the training what i put in. It's totally up to me whether i'll be good enough to do well out of trading. The other thing that had drawn me towards Futex was that the training is twice as long, and so i can only imagine that you learn more. You learn about trading different things, and different markets and are encouraged to develope your own trading style. Schneider's scheme is for trading futures in bonds only, but i'm thinking if I can get good at this and make money out of this, then later on down the line I can start thinking about what else I can trade and be in a position to find out about that. Also since the training period for Schneider is shorter, i should start earning earlier, so there will be less of a strain financially on me. I don't know what rates either charge, but I do remember Schneider saying there's were reasonable. Their desk fee was £1800/mth i think, and the split was initially 70/30 in my favour, rather than 50/50 at Futex. So should I get an offer from Futex, I think i'll turn it down in favour of Schneider, based on all these reasons. Thanks very much for helping me, and if you could let me know what you think of my decision and the reasoning behind it that would be appretiated as well cheers
 

klee

Newbie
3 0
Also can you recommend any reading that I can do to prepare myself, any good books and/or websites. My knowledge is pretty limited thus far, as i have only read a few books.
 

stevet

Established member
917 5
if you feel schneider is best - go with it - and then learn learn learn

it will take 3 years of day in day out trading before you can really start to call yourself a trader - like everyone - you will feel that you will be hot stuff in months - but you wont! so dont try -just try not to lose too much each day, then try to just make a small consistent amount each day, and then over time try to raise that amount bit by bit - but always consistent

and forget asking adice on here about reading - most books are written by losers and then recomended by people who are beginers and dont have a clue -so reading books can get some real bad stuff into your head

just ask the people hiring you what if anything you should read
 
Last edited:

oatman

Senior member
2,879 22
it will take 3 years of day in day out trading before you can really start to call yourself a trader - like everyone - you will feel that you'l feel that you will be hot stuff in months - but you wont!
How very true.
After 2 years you'll think you know it all. After 3 you'll realise how little you knew ;)
 

Buddhist

Junior member
31 0
And *that* my friend, is a really good piece of insight, which (putting my philosopher's hat on) applies to life in general as well. I am sure I knew much more when I was young, but perhaps I was just more certain that I knew it all... I know this applies to my first year of trading (last year), which is no doubt why I lost my money!

The only sure thing about life is you won't get out of it alive.

D

oatman said:
How very true.
After 2 years you'll think you know it all. After 3 you'll realise how little you knew ;)
 
 
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

But it's thanks to our sponsors that access to Trade2Win remains free for all. By viewing our ads you help us pay our bills, so please support the site and disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock