I am at Schneider at the moment on their 1 month training/assessment. The difference between the two firms is that Futex pays £500 for the first 3 months but their split is 50/50 whereas Schneider is 70/30. Although the Futex desk fee is suppose to be cheaper.
I keep getting told at STA that the 90% of traders don't make it and it might take about 9 months to a year to master it when you are likely to make no money. Of about 20 - 30 people on the one months course about 4 - 6 become traders in the end.
Oh also, Futex is in Woking and STA is in Moorgate. I heard from someone that Futex *might* be moving to central london in the near future.
I keep getting told at STA that the 90% of traders don't make it and it might take about 9 months to a year to master it when you are likely to make no money. Of about 20 - 30 people on the one months course about 4 - 6 become traders in the end.
Oh also, Futex is in Woking and STA is in Moorgate. I heard from someone that Futex *might* be moving to central london in the near future.
Futex already have an office in London, near Fleet Street. They've had one for months. The turnover of personnel is far higher at Schneider, as they take a 'throw plenty of **** at the wall and see if some sticks' method, whereas Futex vet their recruits a lot more heavily. There are merits to both approaches.
If I was a new trader starting out, I'd go to Schneider's. If you're not a complete tool you've got a decent chance of being taken under the wing of one or more experienced traders, you might even be backed by them. Schneider also don't rip you off for your Eurex new blood rebate.
If I was a new trader starting out, I'd go to Schneider's. If you're not a complete tool you've got a decent chance of being taken under the wing of one or more experienced traders, you might even be backed by them. Schneider also don't rip you off for your Eurex new blood rebate.
Masquerade
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I've heard that Futex had an office in London for a few years now - I think it was near Liverpool st station, occupied by the BSD's of Futex. Both companies have their merits and flaws. Futex selection process isn't based on trading at all and is more like the selection process one would experience in more conventional jobs, whereas the Schneider is as you say "throw plenty of **** at the wall and see if some sticks", schneider process is based more on how well they think you'll fit into their model based upon how you adapt to all the things they teach you. However, it's pretty hard to tell after a few weeks who really can be a great trader and who has no chance.
Schneider do very well from their traders. You only have to look around at the location and their offices to know they're raking it in. I recall hearing how much the floor below cost to rent and it was a pretty staggering sum.
Schneider do very well from their traders. You only have to look around at the location and their offices to know they're raking it in. I recall hearing how much the floor below cost to rent and it was a pretty staggering sum.
I went to the Futex offices recently, based near Temple (more Blackfriars) the part of the trading floor i saw didn't look great, but they've apparently got some really good guys in the Co - maybe still in Woking. The guy who did the talking gave me the impression that they mainly do outrights, which doesn't sound right to me. The trainer sounded a bit like an NLP advocate, which made me think it was all a bit of a con. I think you're right, Futex definitely do more vetting at the start of the process, they determine whether they want to back you before the training. Schneiders seems a bit more Spartan (if Sparta was in Essex).
I only ever swing trade in small size, hold a position for a few days-weeks, both of these places make me think that i will seriously over-trade no matter what, has Schneiders got a hand in the clearing as well?
I only ever swing trade in small size, hold a position for a few days-weeks, both of these places make me think that i will seriously over-trade no matter what, has Schneiders got a hand in the clearing as well?
Having seen how many people they have on the main floor, and heard how many are going through the course every 2 weeks, i think 4 - 6 is a very high estimate. Probably closer to 0 than 1.
Main advantages of arcades are cheap roundturns, leverage, and fast connection. If you're swing trading, it's probably not worthwhile.
yeah i'd totally change what i do, i mean i would start from scratch completely. It's a bit of a leap of faith i guess you just have to trust the trainers that their methods are much more likely to prove profitable in that environment. To some extent they have your best interests in mind, but at the end of the day i suppose if you stall it's much cheaper for them to train up someone else rather than review what's going wrong.
Masquerade
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Futex = outright
Schneider = spreads. They won't let you put on an outright unless you're trading your own money.
If you're wanting to swing trade for a few days/weeks - they're not really interested in it. They want high volume traders. Paying your desk fee is one thing, but making money from the RT's is very helpful to hthe companies. It's why Schneider does so well, trading spreads you're doing at least double the RT's = double the money. Get people trading flys and even better.
I mean to say at the end of the one month's course, about 4 - 6 people from the group sign a contract to become a trader. As to how many of the 4 - 6 people that actually stay and stick to make a living as a trader I wouldn't know. I guess 0/1 is possible.
If you are only ever swing trading in small size, prop firms won't be for you. You would need to do enough volume to take advantage of the lower commission so it would be worth covering the desk fee of about £1500 - £2000 per month. I think I would be right in saying that Prop firms are for active day traders.
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Nah that was just my recent background i would learn whatever they taught me. I never got great results with my own trading let alone consistent, so i'd have to be pretty pig headed to tell them what i was going to do with their capital lol!
cheers for the input so far!
ooo really? That is interesting. For some reason I thought all prop firms do spread trading to lower the risk.
ah got you. I thought you wanted to swing trade your own money at a prop firm.
From what I have seen so far, I think spread trading is a good way to learn to be more consistently profitable. The only thing I am not too convince about is how to make serious money without sizing up big time. It is a bit of a mission with a half a tick here and a tick there whereas with outrights you can make a lot more getting it right.
idk, I have only been learning it for a few days so can't really say too much about it.
haha, yes clearly.
Although i've heard some atrocious things said by other candidates at these assessments. One guy sat through the whole presentation and still insisted that the orders get telephoned to the floor of the exchange. Everyone else seems over eager to show off their product knowledge of whatever CMC is selling.
o_0 Swing trading is just a term to describe trading on a timeframe from a day plus to weeks. Is not to do with prop trading but I can't see why Prop traders will label you a dick for saying you swing trade.
You should mention any experience you have in the financial markets at your interviews to show your interest in trading. Don't need to be OTT about it but just describe what you did, what you traded etc.
I wouldn't take in too many of the things the other candidates said at the first interviews. I think there is always a share of clueless people at first interviews for most jobs anyway considering a large numbers would be straight out of uni with little to no work experience and maybe on their first interview without doing any research and/or just there to get some interview experience.
Just concentrate on yourself, know your stuff and show your interest in the job I think is the best way to approach it.
You should mention any experience you have in the financial markets at your interviews to show your interest in trading. Don't need to be OTT about it but just describe what you did, what you traded etc.
I wouldn't take in too many of the things the other candidates said at the first interviews. I think there is always a share of clueless people at first interviews for most jobs anyway considering a large numbers would be straight out of uni with little to no work experience and maybe on their first interview without doing any research and/or just there to get some interview experience.
Just concentrate on yourself, know your stuff and show your interest in the job I think is the best way to approach it.
