2nd of September was the day!

Well...we can all argue about the fundamentals and have opinions until the cows come home. At best its only for entertainment purposes.

Anyone who takes others opinions seriously is a moron.:rolleyes:

Personally i'm happy trading what the price tells me to trade...fundamentals, opinions , economics, govt's, politicians, experts, talking heads and forum members suck and none of it has anything whatsoever to do with trading.

Good weekend to all.
 
All their investments are not in dollars. Yes they are holders of some of the biggest dollar based subsidization of a consumption economy in the form of T-Bills.

But they are invested in future commodity and resource supply across the world, they are domesticically invested in their own productive capacity which far exceeds their own consumption and thereby future cashflow inbound.

Further to this they will not ad finitum subsidize such a reckless economy that is so bust and committed to wars and health care they can't afford after subsidizing and socialising the most epic bank failures ever had.

The notion that because they will take a hit on their dollar based assets is sufficient for them to continue to sustain the unsustainable forever with out seeking a change is stupid.

A revaluation has to come one way or another and it will be dollar downwards, there is no arguement for the physics of a dam wall of growing IOU notes. The borrowing required just to pay Britains interest bill alone in 2 years time will be the cost of the expanded Olympics bill doubled each month ie £16 Billion that would amount to £192 Billion pa in a few years time, in interest payments on IOU's alone, hello?

For perspective In the past 1p tax rise in UK raised approx £1 billion over a course of a year.

The US's position is far worse as they have not amortisised the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac in their numbers, they already exceed $12 trillion in debt before medicare and other welfare programs.

$/£ devaluation will mean relative upward valuation of the saver economies currencies.

It is not wealth destroying the paper value of these assets were over valued, like house prices in the first place when the 'Greenspan productivity miracle ' gave us the most epic liquidity and borrowing binge ever, starting from Clintons first term to today still.

Too many peoples eyes, just glaze over at these numbers, they are not wished away to a paralell universe, they are now so chronic they are the elephant in the room in every G8 meeting, I have watched insiders the dutch finance minister report that every meeting the greatest topic of concern is the dollar imbalance, search you tube for it.

The Buying power of the future lies in the East, they will be buying up New York and London with their mega currencies and will cease to be so outright cheap to westerners as they once were.

Its called Market Forces and it will not be held back for ever, Greenspan helped take the ponzi scheme to the brink, and the interest bills are too big and the political will to small to make brutal enough cuts to stave the debt demon off.

I concur 100% Baptist...

Regarding gold - Asians have more gold tucked away under their mattresses and as jewellery than any Western government or bank.

As for wars, the decline of the British Empire in space of 60 years was precisely because of two very costly wars. Colonies were lost one by one as independence was gained. We've won the wars in name and lost in cost and lives...

No fighting country ever wins any war. It's the countries on the sidelines watching and supplying that are the victors.

If US can't win wars in Iraq and Afghanistan what serious chance does it have of winning any significant war against are far more unified oponent?

US only has ability to destroy. Destroy it self it will in due course unless it reverts back to being an economic power.

Gold on its next run up will breach 1030 and head towards 1250. If not by xmas then by middle of next summer... Recent 1030 was a test...
 
I concur 100% Baptist...

Regarding gold - Asians have more gold tucked away under their mattresses and as jewellery than any Western government or bank.

As for wars, the decline of the British Empire in space of 60 years was precisely because of two very costly wars. Colonies were lost one by one as independence was gained. We've won the wars in name and lost in cost and lives...

No fighting country ever wins any war. It's the countries on the sidelines watching and supplying that are the victors.

If US can't win wars in Iraq and Afghanistan what serious chance does it have of winning any significant war against are far more unified oponent?

US only has ability to destroy. Destroy it self it will in due course unless it reverts back to being an economic power.

Gold on its next run up will breach 1030 and head towards 1250. If not by xmas then by middle of next summer... Recent 1030 was a test...

iraq and afghan cant be used as examples. Completely different to an all out war.

And yes ww1 and 2 bankrupted the UK stopping ze germans we couldnt sustain an empire anymore... america rose out of it as the world superpower. America doesnt have an empire like the UK did to sustain.
 
I concur 100% Baptist...

Regarding gold - Asians have more gold tucked away under their mattresses and as jewellery than any Western government or bank.

As for wars, the decline of the British Empire in space of 60 years was precisely because of two very costly wars. Colonies were lost one by one as independence was gained. We've won the wars in name and lost in cost and lives...

No fighting country ever wins any war. It's the countries on the sidelines watching and supplying that are the victors.

If US can't win wars in Iraq and Afghanistan what serious chance does it have of winning any significant war against are far more unified oponent?

US only has ability to destroy. Destroy it self it will in due course unless it reverts back to being an economic power.

Gold on its next run up will breach 1030 and head towards 1250. If not by xmas then by middle of next summer... Recent 1030 was a test...

a test? oh i thought it was up up and away never to be seen again? :rolleyes:
 
yeh china will take over the world! shame MOST of china still lives in total poverty and the gdp per cpaital is like $4,000. America will come out of this mess on top as always, end of!

This not just China vs US - I emphasized, saver or net production nations vs net consumption nations.

This is a far broader net whose currencies may secure increased buying power.

To your point ref Ref Chinese poverty, you are right imagine when that GDP becomes just $5000 per capita and then project equally modest gains from there.

Especially when there work is leading to no net lifestyle improvements because there surpluses are being transferred to a consumption nation, who keeps spending on lifestyle consumption on an ever extending overdraft. How long do you think they want that deal.

5 people stranded on an Island, one fat American Kid tells the other four kids some of whom are Asian, You are to fish, you hunt all day and you cook all day, you make my clothes and I will just sit here and eat 4.5 portions and at the end of the day, while the rest of you can split the final 0.5 portion between you all.

The Fat American also points out as I get fatter my need to eat increases and you will need to produce more.

Unsustainable in the long run, I am amazed you can't see it.

This is not just a beat up on the US comment at the moment no economy for now creates entrepreneurship, to create say a Google, and one of the few reasons, this investment of extending the US's overdraft continues is for the new business and tech innovation, however the GDP contribution from all these are insufficient to counteract the ever increasing net lending, eventually the interest payments, become disproportionately to big for other government expenditure.

California has always been the US in the future, it is/was the 5th biggest economy at one point and home to all the best IT companies, yet it is utterly bust, you can't sustain a screwy model just because you think you are sexier than the rest, you already have an example within the ranks going tits up.

Consumption is not a wealth creating, economic factor, savings , Investment in production/plant is. You need to visit economics one and one all over.

US bragged always of higher growth rates always incorrectly comparing itself to the EU, all this while between 0.5 - 1% of their growth was Consumption GNE = GDP ?
 
as for debt, yeh 12tril is alot of money..its not even 100% of GDP like most countrys, america could probably run 150% debt ratio before it got into trouble.

150% of GDP? at what interest rate would you like that sir, do you think you would be paying 0.5% by the time it reached that level? In fact how long can we sustain this level of rates at all.

Dear, dear.. just factoring in the worst kept secret of impending collapse I actually can only wonder what levels interest would be at?

America is the worlds super power, its not just gona sit back and hand over the rains to a second rate power.

I am not sure any one nation is yet fully ready to snatch reins but influence and 'superiority' complexes, don't last for ever ask the English, the Americans had their century at the turn of the millenium, before the British the chinese had the 3000 years before that.

As long as the US war machine still draws breath the dollar will rule the world, if you doubt that..then maybe you should think outside the box a bit, away from just "finance".

Russia had 2nd best Military clout at one point, may still do, it does not substitute for economics just threat value!

If america was serisouly in danger of loosing its grip on the world it would put that war machine to work..and go threw anyone like a blow touch threw butter!

That is something I fear especially over resources, as for the 'like butter', are you referring to afghanistan, Vietnam or Iraq as examples? We have not had major conventional warfare against massive nations since WWII? Certainly hope you don't see nukes as Knife through Butter they are pretty polarised nation enough after Bush!

Im not saying war is going to happen or is the answer to anything, but this is why america will not fall plain and simple. Look at the state of the world before WW2...the great despresion..yet allies still rose up and crushed nazi Germany..regardless of fiscal cost.

Virtually every active economic nation in the world was involved in WWII, so the assessment has to be relative to others.

Britain carried the Loan for that one and it blighted its ability for the 40's, 50' and through the 60@s and 70's and only inflation made the last payment recently a non-event in which case I assume you accept my position on gross indebtnedness of a nation leading to thrift and hardship for decades and only Inflation being the only mitigator then?

Germany and Japan where assisted back on their feet for infrastructure rebuild, who was the 'sick man of Europe for so long again? Answer: The indebted Nation?

But it will be different this time! :rolleyes:

Is the US not picking up the lions share of the Bill for Iraq, Afghanistan etc..

No matter what happens in the US, it will happen everywhere and it will be worse! Europe is in much worse economic shape they just better at hiding it! Look at the debt ratios for god sake and people are saying america is gona default? yeh better join the que..

In my view the Euro experiment has structural issues with Southern Meditteranean and eastern Europe, and I consider the Euro overvalued, so does the big Mac index incidentally :LOL:. Having said that, which one always needs to borrow more every month, ie expanding net borrowing and which one net produces, ie who is cashflow positive relatively and who is not?

Also seeing you love your gold baptist..who has the worlds largest gold resrves by FAR..need a clue?

I don't Love Gold, I like reality and truth and respond accordingly, when Gold will outperform I want it when not, I want to be underweight, simple really. Fort Knox holds a lot of Gold, of far more relevance is gold value per number of notes issued, having 3x the next nations Gold Haul is a poor position to be in if your currency and notes are proliferated around the world and IOU's in the form of T-Bills to the tune of 20X times your nearest indebted nation.

On this point apparently there are a growing number of Rumours that Comex, the actually custodian of deliverable Gold, in conjuction with Bankers (The pro paper anti Gold crowd).

In a bid to get yield out of the carry cost and no income characteristics of the metal, Have lent out and net sold short, a massive multiple of that held and that were a small percentage seek to claim actual delivery, another highly leveraged,with poor risk managed Ponzi scheme would be unravelled as Comex would have to become huge net purchasers too cover and are not equipped to do so at current levels.

On this point recently China has built there own vault in HK and instead of having vault agreements with the Swiss and in London. They have now demanded delivery on all purchasers on the basis they wish to retain there own bullion, talk about a statement of intent.

Further to this since announcing they wish to establish a serious position in bullion they have ramped there holding from 600 Tons to 1000 in a few months, you see a net saving nation with a surplus can build reserves really quickly and sensing what's coming, wants it right under its own nose! More similar purchases at this rate are expected.

China also announced an official edict to its population to Buy Gold and Silver, in there country team ethos comes well before the individual and these 'requests' are acted on.

The state would not hesitate to leverage private holdings for state benefit should push come to shove. Americans individualistic approach of everyman for himself will not match 1.1 Billion peasants no matter how slowly, nibbling at little bits of bullion continually.

China plays the long game, the saying goes you will never do business with me but establish ties and maybe your Grandson may do business with my Grandson applies.

So lets say the dollar falls apart, fiat currencey as a whole colapses, we return to a gold standard. Where is asia gona be then? They have no gold..

So from the above you will realise they do in fact have Gold, further to this they are accumulating it at a state level at an unparalleled rate, and as for there populace who are relatively poor, but epic savers we have no manner of knowing at what level they will now be hordeing, but my guess is substantially so.

As they become incrementally more wealthy, I would expect at the margin a disproportionate amount of that margin would go there, as opposed to 1 in 10 'enlightened ' Americans who may put 10% of his net disposable after costs in Bullion based investment, not that he would lend it to his government if they were on fire :cheesy:


Oh yes and as a Final point as Someone regularly in Africa, The Chinese are all over the continent, South Africa, Zimbabwe and are pulling strings in Central Africa though Mugabe, Ndjoma of Namibia. Congo, C.A.R are the hottest current Gold prospective areas and are war torn over it.

China are behind the scenes there in a big way (So much so some African leaders are getting quiet Vocal on the new economic imperialism, the Dalai Lama's visa to RSA, to pass a blessing at the Football world Cup in 2012 was cancelled at the local Chinese embassy's request) so for controlling future production and purchase thereof, they are going where the Americans haven't cared to tread.
 
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why do people persist in using iraq and afgahn as examples of american military power lol. If you think that is a good example you obvisouly dont understand the situation very well! Iraq 1 and 2..how quick was the actual WAR over? very.. the fall out is a different story...fighting a guerrilla war is almost impossible..as we are seeing. Say the taliban decided to show them selves and make one stand it would be over in time for tea and crumpits
 
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Well...we can all argue about the fundamentals and have opinions until the cows come home. At best its only for entertainment purposes.

Anyone who takes others opinions seriously is a moron.:rolleyes:

Personally i'm happy trading what the price tells me to trade...fundamentals, opinions , economics, govt's, politicians, experts, talking heads and forum members suck and none of it has anything whatsoever to do with trading.

Depends on your style of trading.
 
why do people persist in using iraq and afgahn as examples of american military power lol. If you think that is a good example you obvisouly dont understand the situation very well! Iraq 1 and 2..how quick was the actual WAR over? very.. the fall out is a different story...fighting a guerrilla war is almost impossible..as we are seeing. Say the taliban decided to show them selves and make one stand it would be over in time for tea and crumpits

Thing is many conventional 'Victories' then face Phase II, the Guerilla element.

As you have stated it is virtually impossible to win that. As the 'enemy' is the civilians or behind them.
 
Thing is many conventional 'Victories' then face Phase II, the Guerilla element.

As you have stated it is virtually impossible to win that. As the 'enemy' is the civilians or behind them.

Ominously the fall of the USSR financially followed a long and expensive war in Afghanistan.
 
Thing is many conventional 'Victories' then face Phase II, the Guerilla element.

As you have stated it is virtually impossible to win that. As the 'enemy' is the civilians or behind them.

True of Afghanistan, but I don't think you can necessarily generalise it. The resistance movements in occupied countries in WWII didn't score many if any strategic victories, the exception that I can think of being the destruction of the heavy water plant in Norway. Norway has some comparisons with Afghanistan i.e. remoteness, wide area and potentially hostile terrain/weather conditions. Places like Denmark and Holland were more compact and more easily controlled. The resistance movements were heavily infiltrated, plus there was a small but significant element in the population actually sympathetic to the invaders.

I don't think the French resistance was so heavily infiltrated but it was divided. Similar story in Yugoslavia and I think Greece.

But the big difference between occupied Europe then and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan is that there were not as huge cultural and linguistic differences between occupier and occupied. The vast majority of American (and British) occupiers of Iraq and Afghanistan will have next to no understanding of the people they are fighting.
 
lets also not forget that targeting civilians is no longer practiced like the good old days of carpet bombing!
 
Good for you glad we flipped you sunny side up, Gilt edged cloud lining.

The P&F - called the pace of decline from $1032 precrunch to a sell target of $700 - It subsequently has posted mostly met targets on the upside last major one around $700's level was $1023.

This perfectly nipped the first stage upper leg, Pre current consolidation.

The final note here then is $1,323 is projected off the latest upbreak (2nd Sept 962 BO) off a rel low (the only place P&F Targets apply) and $2,398 off the initial run up to $1032's Rel High leg gave as a target, even I don't expect that one tomorrow.

Clear as mud?
 
All their investments are not in dollars. Yes they are holders of some of the biggest dollar based subsidization of a consumption economy in the form of T-Bills.

Further to this they will not ad finitum subsidize such a reckless economy that is so bust and committed to wars and health care they can't afford after subsidizing and socialising the most epic bank failures ever had.

The notion that because they will take a hit on their dollar based assets is sufficient for them to continue to sustain the unsustainable forever with out seeking a change is stupid.

$/£ devaluation will mean relative upward valuation of the saver economies currencies.

It is not wealth destroying the paper value of these assets were over valued, like house prices in the first place when the 'Greenspan productivity miracle ' gave us the most epic liquidity and borrowing binge ever, starting from Clintons first term to today still.

The Buying power of the future lies in the East, they will be buying up New York and London with their mega currencies and will cease to be so outright cheap to westerners as they once were.


I don't think you really get my overall point. You're calling for an end to the reckless U.S. economy but are failing to see the repercussions of that.

China relies on exports. No exports = no domestic spending = rising social unrest.

China has also relied on a manipulated currency to sell to it's main trading partners in the west. If this ends; again there is no more exports and no more money coming into the coffers. The few trillion they have won't go very far when the assets bubbles in China pop. Some economists are calling China the mother of all bubbles.

My point is that overcapacity has been built up so if the U.S. goes down, it's taking the world with it and China will crumble with the rest.

It may APPEAR that they are growing miraculously from the ashes and brink of depression, but they are printing money just like the west. Some of this money is feeding into the equity and land markets, which is almost identical to Japan pre-90s.

They were meant to become the no.1 economy then too.
 
Gold to EUR

I have a feeling we may have a nice uptick on this one soon.

EUR my be weaker than many for a bit.
 
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