Traders Psychology and why 90% of traders fail

Trade really, really small for a bit till you get your confidence in your system and skills back again, but keep trading. (Provided of course you have a system with an edge.)

In psychology the best way to overcome ones fears is by confronting them.

Fall off the bike, and you have to start jumping straight back on again if you don't want to develop some dysfunctional phobia.
 
Trade really, really small for a bit till you get your confidence in your system and skills back again, but keep trading. (Provided of course you have a system with an edge.)

In psychology the best way to overcome ones fears is by confronting them.

Fall off the bike, and you have to start jumping straight back on again if you don't want to develop some dysfunctional phobia.


good post & thoughts BSD


"ACT IN SPITE OF FEAR
By T. Harv Eker
The formula for manifestation in our physical universe is known to be "thoughts lead to feelings, which lead to actions, which lead to results." Most people have plenty of thoughts and feelings, but the breakdown for many seems to be the ability to take "action." The culprit, of course, is fear. That is why to succeed in life you must cultivate the trait of courage.
Courage is "taking action is spite of fear." In fact, you can only experience courage in the face of fear. Fear is our greatest obstacle to living happy, peaceful and powerful lives. The true definition of fear is "anticipation of pain." Since anticipation is based in the future and the future only exists in our imagination, fear does not exist in reality. It only lives in our head.
Therefore, it is our own protective mind that prevents us from taking the actions necessary to attain our dreams. As the cartoon character Pogo so appropriately states, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
The protective mind is like an over worried mother; it is constantly creating "doom and gloom" scenarios, trying to scare the heck out of us, in the hopes that we won't try anything new. Its favorite words are "what if." "What if this happens? What if that happens?" Even though none of these things have actually happened, and chances are none of these things will ever happen, this "soap opera" script continues to blare loudly in our head.
Unfortunately, we tend to take this mind trick as gospel and our wonderful ideas of growth and opportunity, become full of uncertainty and doubt. Recognize that our protective mind is not necessarily to be believed; its agenda has nothing to do with making us happy or successful, but only keeping us in a place that is safe, secure and familiar.
Unfortunately many people wait for their fear to subside before taking action. Big mistake! It is not necessary to get rid of fear in order to act. It’s not necessary to “kill” the cobra! The more effective strategy is to learn to "tame" the cobra of fear by acknowledging the feelings and then taking action anyway. Fear itself holds no real power over you. You and you alone give fear its power. If you allow fear to stop you, it will. If you recognize it as the protective part of you, doing it's job (far too well), you can simply say to your mind, "thank you for sharing" and then proceed into action.
Realize that successful people have fear. Successful people have doubts and successful people worry. The only difference between those who succeed and those who don't is that successful people act in spite of their fear, doubt, and worry. So can you!
The darkness of fear begins to disappear in the light of action. Because your protective mind (where fear resides) lives only in the past or future, fear cannot exist in the present moment. Actions, however, only exist in the present moment, meaning that in the midst of focused action, fear dissipates.
The voice of fear is not you. It is only a conditioned "recording" from the past projecting into the future. Once you can recognize that you are the one playing the tape and not the tape itself, you are free!
Ask yourself, "What would I do, if I absolutely knew I could not fail?" The answer will give you a good indication of what you would do and who you would become if you lived based in heart and spirit vs. fear! "


"A trader may hesitate or abandon entering a trade because he senses his own fear. His conscious or unconscious interpretation is, “If I am sensing fear, then I should not be doing this trade.” The bottom-line reason why a trader hesitates is because he is not totally confident in his trading strategy or in himself. He can change this by properly researching and understanding his trading strategy "

By Daniel M. Gramza


Andy
 
That's an excellent article there Andy.

I've always been convinced that the biggest obstacle one has to overcome to achieve ones objectives - provided one belongs to the minority that have even gotten so far as to know what they want - is overcoming the initial inertia one has because one doesn't want to experience failure.

People are more afraid of failing - and being seen to fail -, than they are motivated to keep trying until they get what they defined as their goals.

Screw It, Let's Do It

Good and fitting read in this regard.

It's easier to stay in ones comfort zone being a failure and having fun moaning with others about all sorts of invented reasons why ones life isn't going according to plan, than simply going out there, maybe failing repeatedly, but doggedly continuing down ones road until success ultimately sets in.

1% inspiration, 99% perspiration, that sort of stuff.

If Edison hadn't had conviction and above all great stamina in enduring failure after failure we'd still be sitting in the dark.

Well, ok, probably not, but that's another story.

Good trading :)
 
Hi Neo - Actually, yes, I have to say I think you're right, and I DO think trading can define a person's whole being. But it can scale back organically, to minimise effort whle maximising gain, in a way that working, say, as a farmer, can not. The most successful trader by definition has greater funds and needs risk less in real terms and put in less time and effort to make a living income. The most successful conventional business must grow, it must employ more people, shift more product, operate more premises, demand more man-hours from the workforce. Trading is like running a business only in that that is the right attitude to adopt, its a business, treat it seriously, but its not like a business in physical terms. Trading might be the only business that should get smaller as it develops.

Another way of seeing that a job is never just a job - back to the example of the farmer. We don't even say in English, 'He works AS a farmer' or 'His JOB is farming' or 'He is self-employed in farming'. A farmer either is a farmer, or he is not a farmer. Now that's job-definition.

But all the real differences between these things come from attitude to each of them. The only difference between gambling and trading is attitude to what you're doing. Its what's in your head that's real, everything out there is a 3D image built on a perception.
 
Good piece there TenBob, I was trying to come up with a 'contra definiton' to fear a few weeks back in relation to trading; Face, Embrace, Accept Results...is as good as it got, any advance? :)
 
possible fix

somebody posted this some time back ~

ANNA ... Anticipate, Notice, Name, Address.

Anticipate the emotion/feeling (plan for when it will occur and expect it)
Notice (it when it happens)
Name it (and keep naming it ... this moves the processing to your forebrain and away from the emotional fear centres ... recently proven scientifically, old buddhist practice).
Address it. Have a plan for what you will do when you experience the emotion ... emotions are not bad, its what people do when they happen ... maybe do 20 pushups if you feel jittery then come back).

Courtesy of Denise Shull.

don"t forget that ~

"TRADING PSYCHOLOGY: Once you have your system parameters set, all else is psychology. That having been said, most traders have emotional problems in the market because they are undercapitalized and/or do not have parameters set. Most traders take on more risk than their capital prudently allows for the same reason that most traders don’t research or set parameters: they are trading to meet needs other than profitability. A successful trader is rule-governed. If a trader does not have explicit rules to guide entries, money management / position sizing, and exits, all the therapy in the world won’t bring a positive slope to the P/L curve."

by Brett


latter

Andy
 
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little e-book I found on my travels
 

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Reality Check


by Teresa Lo
Written March 31, 2002.


This is an essay that addresses what we consider to be the top myth in the world of trading. This myth continue to be perpetuated by the brokerage and the trader education community. Fortunes can be made by peddling �advice� or �support� because traders are willing to pay anything in the belief that �the edge� can be bought. While this may be true to some extent, as there is no substitute for knowledge, most often overlooked is the fact that trading is a business, one that demands a certain amount of capital. It takes money to make money. There is no way around this. The majority of would-be professional traders begin trading with accounts much too small, profit goals much too large, and immediately experience psychological difficulties of every kind.

Another common reason why traders fail � perhaps the root cause of it all � is the motivation to go into trading in the first place is to get away from some other problem such as a bad job. We have seen this over and over, people becoming traders as an escape from something else. The urgency to escape generally gets the trader into the market before he is fully prepared and dooms him from the start. The mad rush typically leads to trading before one has acquired the necessary skills, before one has amassed sufficient capital, and most importantly, before one has organized the family�s financial affairs to weather the ups and downs of the market.

Rather than acknowledge this as the reality of why many traders experience extreme psychological difficulties, we find that the majority of those who are in the for-fee advisory or support business continue to pretend that winning traders have some sort of magical personality profile or special indicator. Paying admission to see the show or gaining an audience with the guru will not solve the problems of undercapitalization, which is a business issue. No amount of positive thinking or mental exercises will make this go away.
 
If 90% of traders are losing money, and those traders have common beliefs with respect to the mechanics and approaches to trading, then to adopt those common beliefs for yourself is to make the conscious decision to be a loser.
 
Axiom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The Axiom of the Small Edge:

A trader's long run edge is smaller than he thinks; it is much more akin to a card-counting blackjack player's edge of 1% due to variance, ever-changing cycles, and fear-induced losses.

The Postulate of Trading the Small Edge:
Given The Axiom of the Small Edge, what really matters in money management is that a trader always be prepared, always be able to hold a position with a positive edge that goes against him, and always be able to take the next trade:


Imagine
The worst trading day you've ever had. The seconds ticking by, the disaster scenarios playing vividly out.
Imagine
The blackjack player. His edge is 1% or 2 hands/100.
Imagine
The pressure.
Imagine
The public speaker. Stammering, nervous, unpracticed and unprepared.
Imagine
The blackjack player, the public speaker and the trader as one.
Imagine
Once per month being unprepared: 12 hands Once per quarter succumbing to the pressure: 4 hands Once per quarter not taking the next trade, not betting the correct size: 4 hands
Imagine
The blackjack player giving up 20 hands to the house:

His edge is now -18%
Imagine
The blackjack player and the trader as one.

"His edge is now -18%."

The Axiom of the Small Edge and The Postulate of Trading the Small Edge say that what really matters in money management is that a trader always be prepared, always be able to hold a position with a positive edge that goes against him, and always be able to take the next trade.
 
Reality Check


by Teresa Lo
Written March 31, 2002.


This is an essay that addresses what we consider to be the top myth in the world of trading. This myth continue to be perpetuated by the brokerage and the trader education community. Fortunes can be made by peddling �advice� or �support� because traders are willing to pay anything in the belief that �the edge� can be bought. While this may be true to some extent, as there is no substitute for knowledge, most often overlooked is the fact that trading is a business, one that demands a certain amount of capital. It takes money to make money. There is no way around this. The majority of would-be professional traders begin trading with accounts much too small, profit goals much too large, and immediately experience psychological difficulties of every kind.

Another common reason why traders fail � perhaps the root cause of it all � is the motivation to go into trading in the first place is to get away from some other problem such as a bad job. We have seen this over and over, people becoming traders as an escape from something else. The urgency to escape generally gets the trader into the market before he is fully prepared and dooms him from the start. The mad rush typically leads to trading before one has acquired the necessary skills, before one has amassed sufficient capital, and most importantly, before one has organized the family�s financial affairs to weather the ups and downs of the market.

Rather than acknowledge this as the reality of why many traders experience extreme psychological difficulties, we find that the majority of those who are in the for-fee advisory or support business continue to pretend that winning traders have some sort of magical personality profile or special indicator. Paying admission to see the show or gaining an audience with the guru will not solve the problems of undercapitalization, which is a business issue. No amount of positive thinking or mental exercises will make this go away.

If 90% of traders are losing money, and those traders have common beliefs with respect to the mechanics and approaches to trading, then to adopt those common beliefs for yourself is to make the conscious decision to be a loser.

Axiom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The Axiom of the Small Edge:

A trader's long run edge is smaller than he thinks; it is much more akin to a card-counting blackjack player's edge of 1% due to variance, ever-changing cycles, and fear-induced losses.

The Postulate of Trading the Small Edge:
Given The Axiom of the Small Edge, what really matters in money management is that a trader always be prepared, always be able to hold a position with a positive edge that goes against him, and always be able to take the next trade:


Imagine
The worst trading day you've ever had. The seconds ticking by, the disaster scenarios playing vividly out.
Imagine
The blackjack player. His edge is 1% or 2 hands/100.
Imagine
The pressure.
Imagine
The public speaker. Stammering, nervous, unpracticed and unprepared.
Imagine
The blackjack player, the public speaker and the trader as one.
Imagine
Once per month being unprepared: 12 hands Once per quarter succumbing to the pressure: 4 hands Once per quarter not taking the next trade, not betting the correct size: 4 hands
Imagine
The blackjack player giving up 20 hands to the house:

His edge is now -18%
Imagine
The blackjack player and the trader as one.

"His edge is now -18%."

The Axiom of the Small Edge and The Postulate of Trading the Small Edge say that what really matters in money management is that a trader always be prepared, always be able to hold a position with a positive edge that goes against him, and always be able to take the next trade.



"William Eckhardt:

The Win/Loss Ratio

“One common adage on this subject that is completely wrongheaded is: You can’t go broke taking profits. That’s precisely how many traders do go broke. While amateurs go broke by taking large losses, professionals go broke by taking small profits. The problem in a nutshell is that human nature does not operate to maximize gain but rather to maximize the chance of a gain. The desire to maximize the number of winning trades (or minimize the number of losing trades) works against the trader. The success rate of trades is the least important performance statistic and may even be inversely related to performance."


"What really matters is the long-run distributions of outcomes from your trading techniques, systems, and procedures. But, psychologically, what seems of paramount importance is whether the positions that you have right now are going to work. Current positions seem to be crucial beyond any statistical justification. It’s quite tempting to bend your rules to make your current trades work, assuming that the favorability of your long-term statistics will take care of future profitability. Two of the cardinal sins of trading - giving losses too much rope and taking profits prematurely - are both attempts to make current positions more likely to succeed, to the severe detriment of long-term performance.

Market Wizards"

above 2 quotes reproduced from old BSD post



good signature Rath ~

if u can't accept that only 2 or 3 trades out of 10 will be small winners, & that 2 or 3 will be scratched for even & that 3 or 4, even 5 will be losers, with possibly only 1 in 10 trades being "payday" then u shouldn't even consider trading



build your own method and mind how you go, if your in a rush - take your time

in my experience I would have to say you have three fully loaded emotional banks to work with

use them with care, not sure they can ever be replaced :!:

latter


Andy
 
Love to see the long time forum participants "shooting straight" about self-reflection and the necessity of a method that pays off statistically over time. I would certainly have appreciated hearing these thoughts in the beginning of my "journey." I can tell their comments are from veterans seasoned from many campaigns. Fwiw, my "trading psychology" improved drastically with a provable methodology and a broker function that would stop me out per my risk management formula. That took years and lots of dead ends and an amount of capital I'm embarrassed to divulge. Though I don't follow them now, I did at last find mentors and traders who took an interest in me personally. Naturally it cost money, but not the onerous amounts that trading "educators" so often charge the novice trader.
en tous cas, I'm looking forward to being member of this forum!
 
possible fix

somebody posted this some time back ~

ANNA ... Anticipate, Notice, Name, Address.

Anticipate the emotion/feeling (plan for when it will occur and expect it)
Notice (it when it happens)
Name it (and keep naming it ... this moves the processing to your forebrain and away from the emotional fear centres ... recently proven scientifically, old buddhist practice).
Address it. Have a plan for what you will do when you experience the emotion ... emotions are not bad, its what people do when they happen ... maybe do 20 pushups if you feel jittery then come back).

Courtesy of Denise Shull.

don"t forget that ~

"TRADING PSYCHOLOGY: Once you have your system parameters set, all else is psychology. That having been said, most traders have emotional problems in the market because they are undercapitalized and/or do not have parameters set. Most traders take on more risk than their capital prudently allows for the same reason that most traders don’t research or set parameters: they are trading to meet needs other than profitability. A successful trader is rule-governed. If a trader does not have explicit rules to guide entries, money management / position sizing, and exits, all the therapy in the world won’t bring a positive slope to the P/L curve."

by Brett


latter

Andy

Forgotten what a great thread this was, anyhow I've been giving thought to facing up to the F.E.A.R. factor (just before entering a trade), how about:

Focus, Engage, Adapt, React...:)
 
So You Want To Be A Futures Day Trader ?

"You wake up one morning with a really BAD idea – you have decided to start making your living by becoming a futures day trader. BUT how can this be such a bad idea, don’t people get rich day trading futures? Where did that idea come from? Did you see one of those ‘work’ for 10 minutes a day and make $4200, ‘get rich quick never lose’ hype system ads? Or did you visit a chatroom, and the ‘resident guru’ made it all sound so easy? Maybe, the title of this article should have been – How To Die A Painful Death Chasing A Carrot.
Get real. IF systems like that really were available, or if day trading really was that easy, wouldn’t everyone be a rich day trader instead of being a statistic in the 90 percent of all day traders fail club? IF you can’t be truly realistic regarding this, truly believing and understanding the odds against you THEN you do not have a chance. You would really be best off ‘giving up’ on this idea about day trading, and save yourself a lot of pain and money.

Over the last nine years, I have known and worked with many traders, and over this time have seen the unrealistic expectations, and problems with their approach towards trading, where people who possibly had a chance to be successful were actually done before they started. I have thought about writing a book about this. The book would not be about how to day trade, but instead, it would be about how to learn how to day trade – the key word being learning NOT trade.

It Can’t Just Be About The Money

How can learning any new skill start with a total focus on the end result, instead of how you plan to achieve that result. That would be no different than trying to put the roof on a house before you built the walls, or expecting to receive your college degree the day that you begin classes. Talk about unrealistic expectations – these are impossibilities – as are any get rich quick trading schemes. Yet many come into day trading as what I refer to as a job replacement ‘trader’, this is a ‘trader’ who tells me the following: I know I need to spend the time making a trading plan and ‘properly’ paper trading it before I start trading real money, but I can’t, I just got laid off from my job and need to trade now to make some money. There is another statistic for the 90 percent club.

When I meet a new trader who has some interest in what I am doing, this is probably the most frequently asked question: how long is it going to take me to be profitable with your method? This ‘trader’ has never traded real money yet, or has been losing at whatever ‘trading’ that they have done, yet what they want to know is how long will take to be profitable with a new method. My answer to questions like these is to first ask my own question: what are you planning to do to learn this method, how can you possibly become profitable with any method before you learn it? I can remember one specific ‘trader’ that I talked to 2-3 times before joining our group. In the conversations this trader told me how many thousands of dollars he had spent on trading systems, methods, and trading groups – it was almost like he was ‘bragging’ about it? He never learned how to trade, and he had never traded profitably. BUT once again the same question came up – how long is it going to take? I told the ‘trader’ my thoughts regarding this, while also saying that if this was the major concern that they would probably never learn it, and they really shouldn’t join the group. The ‘trader’ assured me that this time it would be different BUT it wasn’t – they never studied the training materials, but I would get an email every couple of days asking me when I thought they should start trading real money. And there is another statistic for the 90 percent club.

Trading just can’t be about the money, especially from the beginning, but really at any point in your trading career. Trading is about the process; that process being learning a method and the related trade setups, the creation of what I refer to as a base setup plan. Does it seem logical, that you actually need ‘something’ to trade before you get rich trading it? After this is done, start paper trading this plan in order to gain enough screen time and repetition that you can make adjustments – learning your mistakes and misreads that you make in real time execution. Accomplish this, and then begin to keep profitability records of your paper trading, first trading for profitability, and then trading for proficiency where you concern yourself with the percentage of profit potential you are gaining, not simply whether you make a profit. How long is this going to take to do? Who knows, but there sure aren’t any shortcuts. Actually, it probably won’t ever happen. Paper trading to a proficient level really is a very difficult thing to accomplish, as ‘traders’ aren’t willing to work hard enough, and with the necessary commitment, as there is no financial reward from paper trading. Furthermore, since there is also no financial risk, paper trading is quite often turned into a game and becomes of a waste of time, and creation of bad habits that become to hard to change. But skip the process altogether, because you want to start making all of that money that caused you to decide to become a day trader to begin with AND – another statistic for the 90 percent club.

Introduction To Trading Psychology
I would guess that most everyone has had experience with some kind of real time performance stress before. Maybe it was a college final, or maybe it was related to athletics, maybe you had to give a speech, or maybe you were in a theatrical performance. Whatever the case may be, for myself, as well as anyone else I remember talking to, nothing was even similar to the ‘feelings’ that were ‘brought on’ by day trading real money real time. My background included athletics, and I can remember pitching in a state final baseball game, and I can remember last second free-throws in tournament basketball games – it was a piece of cake when compared to starting to trade real money. Nothing can prepare you for risking your money on an unknown outcome, of which you have no physical control, while watching price bars that all of a sudden have seemed to start ‘ticking’ at the speed of light – with your heart racing and the inability to sit still and the dry mouth and the sweaty palms and the feeling like you are going to puke – etc etc etc. Doesn’t that sound like fun – I will bet that get rich trading scheme didn’t mention any of this ?

IF you are going to get through these emotions known as trading psychology, and all the different fears and forms that it can take on, it is going to be involved with your preparation, repetition, and understanding of that base setup plan, along with the knowledge that you have been able to paper trade it proficiently. No, it’s not the same as real money, and you will still have to become used to executing real time BUT at least you do have the confidence in knowing that what you are going to trade does work, and on a level in excess of simple profitability. It will take time for these emotions to leave you, and maybe some never will, but that is all right. It is not necessary to eliminate all emotion to be able to profitably trade, it is necessary to control them, and being able to have the self trust that although you can’t ‘know’ what is going to happen, you can ‘know’ what you are doing and that you will act as closely as possible to the intended ‘plan’. Does going through a learning process that includes paper trading still sound like a waste of time? No problem – there is still plenty of room in the 90 percent club.

Work Ethic And The Fear Of Failure
Again I am thinking about that question – how long is it going to take to profitably trade your method? I don’t know, are you really going to work your hardest? The fear of failure can take on many manifestations. What I have seen quite frequently, is how this fear is related to the ‘traders’ sense of self esteem and self worth – that failing at this, failing at anything, will make them ‘less’ of a person, and they can’t risk allowing this to happen. Consequently, they never work their hardest at learning to trade. They won’t put it all on the line, they always hold something back. Why? Because by doing this there will always be a ‘built in’ excuse for failing – IF I had really tried my hardest THEN I am sure that I could have done it. The result is obviously the same, but at least they don’t have to blame themselves or take a ‘hit’ on that precious ego. Is failing at learning to do something, and being a failure really the same thing? In my way of thinking, trying your very hardest and not being able to do something is just the way it goes some times. We aren’t going to be able to do everything we try, no matter how hard we work at it. Failure on the other hand is what I described – failing because you didn’t ‘step up’ and try your hardest, instead you ‘held back’ trying to protect yourself. You want to learn to day trade, check your ego at the door before you start – or you too can join the 90 percent club.

Do You Still Want To Make Your Living Day Trading?
Have I talked you out of becoming a day trader – do you still think this is a great ‘get rich quick’ way of making your living? Although it wasn’t my intentions to change anyone’s mind, if this is what has happened, then I am glad. Yes, trading can be ‘lucrative’, and yes, you can get ‘rich’ trading, but you have such a long road to travel before this can occur. Many people ‘say’ they know this, but they don’t really ‘believe’ it. They think that they will be different, they think that they will be the one that ‘bucks’ these odds BUT then they won’t go about it differently. If nothing else, it should be very clear, that if 90% of all day traders lose, then to have a chance at being successful, you obviously are going to have to approach this differently than the vast majority does. Go for it BUT focus on the process, have reasonable expectations of what is really involved, and then do what is necessary to learn how to trade

that 90% club is far too big"




good post Black Swan


good post from another ...... sorry neglected to save the posters name at the time
 
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Good links, thanks for posting.

My two cents: I'd go as far as to say that Mark Douglas has actually, "NAILED THE HOLY GRAIL OF TECHNICAL ANALYSIS," and it's quite ironic as the "Holy Grail" is in fact the realization that there is no "Holy Grail" it doesn't exist, it is impossible to predict with certainty what the market will do next, only what it will "PROBABLY" do, (that probability being pre-defined by your trading method's statistical edge).

I say Mark has nailed it, well it's what most pros have known all along, but Mark has managed to define it in a simple and easy to digest way.

With this realization comes the capacity to think about your trades "PROBABILISTICALLY," when you have this perspective, there is no emotional conflict in cutting losers and letting winners run, because you know that your method has a predisposition to generating a random variable distribution of losers, yada, yada, yada, etc. etc.

PS. I'm not a Mark Douglas shill, just a very grateful trader.
 
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Forgotten what a great thread this was, anyhow I've been giving thought to facing up to the F.E.A.R. factor (just before entering a trade), how about:

Focus, Engage, Adapt, React...:)

That sounds like the lyrics from Ian Brown's song F.E.A.R.
 
90% of traders fail because there stupid and should probably be bus drivers not traders. harsh but fair!
 
90% of traders fail because there stupid and should probably be bus drivers not traders. harsh but fair!

Hmm, not sure I entirely agree, some of the best traders aren't exactly the brightest crayons in the pencil case. However, they do share certain psychological traits, and these behaviours can be learned.

Very smart people can be prone to over-analysing market activity.

By the way, lend us a couple of mil...
 
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