90% Fail????

[Lightning McQueen]

Indeed, all moved into its own thread

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/39378-religion-darwinism-creationists-cu20052003-3.html

 

[pigbear]

Simple why we fail. We have success at the beginning. How many of us started trading shares than discovered T+15 back in 2000. So we put £10K hoping to make a £100 instead we make £1000 or even £10K. This leads us to the road of ruin.

 

[new_trader]

90% of the general population has an I.Q lower than 121 (Stanford-Binet).

 

[wasp]

90% of the general population has an I.Q lower than 121 (Stanford-Binet).

Intelligence is irrelevant. If I took a mensa test I'd fail, badly. How am I successful then? Years of screen time and study providing knowledge and skill through hard work and experience. I know the markets better than pretty much anything else in life atm.

90% fail because they give up to easily and quickly when they realise its harder than hoped.

 

[new_trader]

90% fail because they give up to easily and quickly when they realise its harder than hoped.

Yes, that, and they are stupid.

NB: Requirements for Mensa are that you be within the top 2%

 

[BSD]

Ah.

Isn't another term for Mensa that of Overintelligent Underachievers.

;-)

"Crazy-fun new study in press at the journal Intelligence. It attempts to puzzle out the connection between IQ and wealth, only to come up with the entertaining -- if unsurprising -- result: There isn't one. Bad news for brainy geeks everywhere."
Paul Kedrosky: If You're So Dumb, Why Aren't You Rich?

Do You Need a High IQ to Be Successful?


Do you know your own IQ? Do you know what it means?

Although the IQ test is very widely used, and the results are almost synonymous with our idea of intelligence, there has also been a lot of criticism of the test, and of the way the results are used.

Does having a high IQ score guarantee success in later life? No, it doesn’t! It doesn’t even guarantee success in school.

A Canadian television program recently tracked down some of the people with the highest IQ scores in North America. One man who has an extremely high genius IQ works as a motorcycle mechanic, hangs out with biker gangs, and is frequently in and out of jail.

Another man interviewed on the program has the highest IQ recorded in North America. He has worked as a bouncer in a bar for ten years, earns minimum wage, and lives in a tiny garage. Clearly, a high IQ is not enough to guarantee success in life.
High IQ and Success

 

[Trader333]

The age old problem with IQ testing is that it is based mostly on logic and says nothing about emotional intelligence which has a huge impact on overall possibility in my view.


Paul

 

[BSD]

Very much agree with that Paul.

Goleman has an interesting piece on his view of the IQ / success correlation:

Daniel Goleman - Author of Emotional Intelligence and Social Intelligence Blog Archive The Trouble with IQ

 

[new_trader]

IQ doesn't guarantee success in life just like being tall doesn't guarantee you will be a successful professional basketball player, but the anti-intelligence brigade just can’t seem to come to grip with this simple concept. Let me repeat, one more time for the dummies. Having a high IQ does not guarantee success in life, but having a low IQ will certainly limit your choices, whether you like it or not. I have no doubt there a truck drivers with high IQ’s but I will be my life there are no Nobel Prize winning scientists with a low IQ.

Modern IQ ranges for various occupations


What I’ve found over the years that I’ve got into discussions about IQ, whether it is in real life or on an internet forum is that people fall into two main categories:

1) Those that have sat a supervised IQ test and know their IQ.
2) Those that have never sat an IQ test and don't know their IQ.

People in group 1 are generally surprised when they discover that their IQ is much higher than they thought. In other words, they are actually smarter than they think they are.
People in group 2 are too afraid to find out what their IQ is in case it is lower than they think. In other words, they like to think that they are smarter than they actually are. These are also the same people that say that IQ tests aren’t accurate, don’t mean anything..etc..etc..etc

 

[cofton]

Yes I think generally your post is correct and you obviously have far more experience than me regarding IQ tests as I know very little.

I do know that I would definitely fall into number 2 category because I like to think I am smarter than I am but deep down I know I'm average.

Maybe IQ tests have come a long way over the years but some years ago I did take an IQ test along with a business colleague. I scored far higher than him which in itself was ridiculous. My colleague was far, far more intelligent than me, he was one of these naturally gifted human beings who could just retain knowledge easily. He was and is a very, very intelligent person in many subjects and his general knowledge and calculating skills are probably the best I and others have ever witnessed.

Yet my IQ was higher than his ? Needless to say that I have not took a test since and probably never will due this silly result. It was almost comical that on paper I was supposedly more intelligent than my colleague when it was quite obvious that I wasn't in his league.

So as far as I am concerned these tests maybe (and just maybe) will give you an idea of someone's IQ but I wouldn't bet on it. My logic tells me that there is the distinct possibility that one could be 'lucky' with the questions.

My common sense also tells me that maybe my experience was an isolated incident and IQ tests are generally a good pointer as to how intelligent someone really is.

My honesty also tells me that maybe they are for people who either have a big ego and want to tell everyone how clever they are or they are for people who need the recognition and use it to achieve their goal.

Fortunately I don't fall into either category and really couldn't give a monkey's

I am sure some one somewhere earns big bucks for organising these tests and good luck to them.

Cofton

IQ doesn't guarantee success in life just like being tall doesn't guarantee you will be a successful professional basketball player, but the anti-intelligence brigade just can’t seem to come to grip with this simple concept. Let me repeat, one more time for the dummies. Having a high IQ does not guarantee success in life, but having a low IQ will certainly limit your choices, whether you like it or not. I have no doubt there a truck drivers with high IQ’s but I will be my life there are no Nobel Prize winning scientists with a low IQ.

Modern IQ ranges for various occupations


What I’ve found over the years that I’ve got into discussions about IQ, whether it is in real life or on an internet forum is that people fall into two main categories:

1) Those that have sat a supervised IQ test and know their IQ.
2) Those that have never sat an IQ test and don't know their IQ.

People in group 1 are generally surprised when they discover that their IQ is much higher than they thought. In other words, they are actually smarter than they think they are.
People in group 2 are too afraid to find out what their IQ is in case it is lower than they think. In other words, they like to think that they are smarter than they actually are. These are also the same people that say that IQ tests aren’t accurate, don’t mean anything..etc..etc..etc

 

[nine]

Ahhh .. the joys of IQ.

My opinion:

If you trade a rule based strategy (even if a bit discretionary) then a high IQ can be useful for determining the rules. But its really mainly one component of the three primary components of an iq test (verbal, math, spatial) so someone might have a low mark because they are verbally weak but still be great at developing setups.

Because many good setups exist that are well known a high IQ is less important for most trading than one with a high IQ would hope. For some forms of trading where deep understanding or rapid calculation are important (option spreads?) it might be more useful.

For most trading a well developed EQ (emotional understanding) is important because, IMO, more traders fail on the rack of their emotions than for lack of understanding. I've met quite a few successful and unsuccessful traders and few have struck me as too thick to trade, but very few have succeeded. And most of the failures seem to follow the same gradual and painful patterns.

 

[the blades]

People in group 2 are too afraid to find out what their IQ is in case it is lower than they think. In other words, they like to think that they are smarter than they actually are. These are also the same people that say that IQ tests aren’t accurate, don’t mean anything..etc..etc..etc

You don't half talk some elitist ********, NT.

I suspect a great many people just couldn't give a damn what their IQ is, although not in the circles in which you mix. (ie small ones).

UTB

 

[new_trader]

Yes I think generally your post is correct and you obviously have far more experience than me regarding IQ tests as I know very little.

I do know that I would definitely fall into number 2 category because I like to think I am smarter than I am but deep down I know I'm average.

Maybe IQ tests have come a long way over the years but some years ago I did take an IQ test along with a business colleague. I scored far higher than him which in itself was ridiculous. My colleague was far, far more intelligent than me, he was one of these naturally gifted human beings who could just retain knowledge easily. He was and is a very, very intelligent person in many subjects and his general knowledge and calculating skills are probably the best I and others have ever witnessed.

Yet my IQ was higher than his ? Needless to say that I have not took a test since and probably never will due this silly result. It was almost comical that on paper I was supposedly more intelligent than my colleague when it was quite obvious that I wasn't in his league.

So as far as I am concerned these tests maybe (and just maybe) will give you an idea of someone's IQ but I wouldn't bet on it. My logic tells me that there is the distinct possibility that one could be 'lucky' with the questions.

My common sense also tells me that maybe my experience was an isolated incident and IQ tests are generally a good pointer as to how intelligent someone really is.

My honesty also tells me that maybe they are for people who either have a big ego and want to tell everyone how clever they are or they are for people who need the recognition and use it to achieve their goal.

Fortunately I don't fall into either category and really couldn't give a monkey's

I am sure some one somewhere earns big bucks for organising these tests and good luck to them.

Cofton

Cofton,

The problem as I see it is this: There are people in this forum who assert that ‘making money’ defines how successful someone is at trading. If someone is ‘making money’ then they are a professional. In other words, they fully accept that money is a way of measuring and comparing one person’s level of success to another person. Now, imagine how confusing and difficult it would be to assess how successful everyone is if we all had our own currency and/or we all had our own definition of money? It would be chaos. Money, even though there are different currencies around the world, can at least be measured by a single standard such as the $US dollar. In other words, someone making US$1000/month is making twice as much as someone making US$500/month.

Now, what about a marathon race? How would we compare how fast one person is compared to another if we all used our own definition of distance and time? Unless everyone ran side by side it would be impossible to make speed comparisons wouldn’t it? Fortunately time and distance are standardised so that someone who can run a marathon in 2 hours is twice as fast as someone who runs it in 4 hours.

But what about when it comes to intelligence? How do we calibrate ourselves to the rest of the population? It has already been stated that success has no bearing on IQ so we can’t use that. Besides, one person’s definition of success is different from another person. So what choices are there for people like me who are interested in knowing where they rank in the general population as far as intelligence is concerned? If I want to know what my income is in comparison to the average I can look that up and compare it to mine, simple. If I want to know how I compare to the average marathon runner I can run a marathon and compare the times, simple.

Psychologists have been studying and thinking of ways to compare and calibrate intelligence for years and to date, a standardised IQ test is the most practical method. They are not a money making exercise at all, that is an utterly absurd assertion. Besides, there aren’t that many standardised IQ tests around and many have been around for years and years, such as the Cattell Culture Fair III. The more people that take the same test the more accurately the results reflect the average intelligence. So the idea that they are a money making venture completely contradicts this concept.

 

[BSD]

Success in trading is measured by one thing, and one thing only:

Who has turned the leastest into the mostest.

Success in life is measured by one thing, and one thing only:

How successful you were at achieving your objectives, whatever they may have been.

Fact of the matter is that intelligence and trading have no meaningful correlation, just as success in other workplaces and intelligence have no correlation either.

Now, some may enjoy the boredom of mixing with overintelligent underachievers who usually in rather typical leftbrainer fashion can't see the forest for the trees, and whose largest success in life was taking an IQ test and joining up with Mensa, but the unfortunate fact remains that for by far most highly intelligent beings that will have been it as far as success in life goes.

The reason is really quite simple:

Most highly intelligent people are good at doing what they're told, good at detail work, good at examining the trees minutiae to the nth degree, but they just don't get the big picture, they just don't get the forest.

For getting the forest you need wise rightbrainers with holistic comprehension and intuition, not intelligent leftbrainers muddling along in a linear, logical fashion.

 

[new_trader]

You are talking absolute personal measures, I am talking relative to general population. THAT is what IQ is all about. Not how smart you are, but how your intelligence compares with the general population. It is that simple. An IQ test that only one person has taken which never been standardised is useless and the result is meaningless.

As for success in trading, it is whatever you want it to be, I don't care. Whatever helps you and the rest of the world sleep at night.

Fact of the matter is that intelligence and trading have no meaningful correlation,

This is just a spurious statement. Without any evidence how can you be sure? With so many people objecting to the idea of IQ tests how can you say with any conviction what the IQ is of those who have done well at trading or those that have failed? On what data do you base this 'fact'?


Anyway, let's just all hold hands and call each other 'special'. I'm sure with all this combined positive thinking we can all become successful at trading.

 

[BSD]

You are talking absolute personal measures, I am talking relative to general population. THAT is what IQ is all about. Not how smart you are, but how your intelligence compares with the general population.

That's exactly what I mean by leftbrainers not getting it.

Who cares how my intelligence compares relative to the general population when that does not give me any sort of value added information whatsoever, as it will have no correlation to my success in life as any number of studies clearly demonstrate, nor tell me anything else worth knowing that will have any sort of an impact whatsoever on the course of my life.

Per you IQ tests are sort of like first counting and then comparing the number of trousers in my cupboard with that of the rest of the population, might interest some, but of no relevant impact on anything, umm, relevant.



We'll never sort this out btw as you are an obvious leftbrainer, while I'm a total rightbrainer, and from decades of discussions with my leftbrained older brother I realise the futility of attempting a meaningful communication with him, it's always been like one of us is from Mars, and the other from Venus.

OOOPS...

Now see what this thread has achieved, it's reminded me to give him a call today as it's his birthday.

So, worthwhile after all.

 

[PKFFW]

Most highly intelligent people are good at doing what they're told, good at detail work, good at examining the trees minutiae to the nth degree, but they just don't get the big picture, they just don't get the forest.

For getting the forest you need wise rightbrainers with holistic comprehension and intuition, not intelligent leftbrainers muddling along in a linear, logical fashion.

This really isn't the case in my opinion. Logical reasoning is only one aspect of a proper standardised IQ test.

An integral part of "intelligence"(as measured by IQ tests anyway) has to do with being able to make conections and see how things go together even if the connections are not immediately apparent. It has to do with being able to think about things in a different light or come at a problem from a different angle in order to find the solution.

True "intelligence" is about having the ability to use both "sides" of the brain in order to achieve the best result. Being either left or right brain dominant to the exclusion of the other side will only decrease ones intelligence.(as measured by IQ tests of course)

In my experience, "intelligent" people can easily see the big picture but at the same time do not neglect the minutiae.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[nine]

Yeah ... that is a gross generalization bsd. On a par with "women are happiest when barefoot, pregnant and working in the kitchen."

 

[the blades]

Who cares how my intelligence compares relative to the general population when that does not give me any sort of value added information whatsoever, as it will have no correlation to my success in life as any number of studies clearly demonstrate, nor tell me anything else worth knowing that will have any sort of an impact whatsoever on the course of my life.

Per you IQ tests are sort of like first counting and then comparing the number of trousers in my cupboard with that of the rest of the population, might interest some, but of no relevant impact on anything, umm, relevant.

absolutely spot on.

UTB

 

[BSD]

LOL guys, knew I'd get some flak for that, yeah yeah, being a bit provocative here might as well admit.



But, having said that, if you go back and remember Uni parties - just because the differences are so focused and obvious there - where you had people who studied say maths or computer sciences - like my brother - and then compare it with people like myself with a lib-arts degree under my belt and the conversations, well, it was a bit, you must admit, Mars vs Venus, leftbrain vs rightbrain territory, what ?

What do you want to do ?

Rule the world.

Write a program that allows you to improve the speed with which you generate right turning aerons.

??!!??

In my experience, "intelligent" people can easily see the big picture but at the same time do not neglect the minutiae.

PK, I really think big picture and details people are more often than not two seperate beings.

There are as always exceptionms to the rule, but if you think of big historical leaders, the combination of being a wise Big Picture person AND an intelligent details person is certainly not non-existent, but it is rather the exception, wouldn't you agree.