The Safe trade

[ragpijin]

Look guys, i've been 'involved' with this thread since the start and i was hoping to learn how to trade. I have learnt a fair bit BUT i need more tuition. I am very grateful to those that have passed on their knowledge so far, but i think things are going too far now and the purpose of this thread is being diverted to wasting time over idiots that just seem to want to make trouble (mydimension?) Did i actually read somewhere that he was 50 years old? If my dad acted like that i'd disown him!

Anyway, back to the point... can i ask politely that this thread gets back on track so i can learn how to trade. I'm keen, i want to learn, my budget / bank is only small but i'm patient, and fairly disciplined. I just need the knowledge and tools.

Cheers guys

Ian

Ian the purpose of this thread IS to help guys such as yourself with your trading, im not promising you a ways of trading that you can use to make lots of money every single day, im not even saying you can make X % each month ..... But i can show you how to make very high probability trades based on universally recognised levels of support and resistance in the correct direction. This will give you the edge that you need in order to make nice steady profits as time goes by..... i can even help you come up with your very own plan based on these powerful concepts.

I am sorry that this thread has been disrupted by certain individuals, but don't worry about that and if you have any questions or even just would like to share your progress if you post it.... i will help you and guide you where i can.

Im trying to take more notice of guys like you and less notice of certain others

 

[ZEPPO]

On the contrary Zep, i feel you've missed my point. I'm saying, it is easy to get distracted by the 'negative' posts on here trying to undermine Rag and what he (and others) is willing to do for a novice like me who is willing to learn. I'm merely saying, forget about these people who post such negativity because they obviously have a bee in their bonnet about something. Maybe they were once successful but lost it all because they never took the advice of the experience on this forum hahahaha As for being polite... ahem... i quote from my last post...

'Anyway, back to the point... can i ask politely that this thread gets.......' :cheesy:

I have bought books, read this forum etc, but Rag offered his help too by starting this thread. However it is being disrupted by the odd individual.

Cheers

Aaarrgghh!! Gosh, I try, but nobody seems to get it!!
OK, let's try again; trading is a personal endeavour, where you will test yourself to the limit.
I would like to ask you this question - and please, be honest, but to yourself: how much of a drawdown can you take? What is going to happen when you get there - and make no mistake, you will get there!
Nobody, no one can answer that question but yourself, and you won't be able to do that until you experience it!
That is the pain I am refering to; forget about help, certainly not from people like ragpijin who has already make clear that he is a professional.
You see, for them, we the private traders are the "dumb" money - the source of their bonuses, the other side of the trade; we exist to be plundered, period.
First, you need capital - tonnes of it, at least $10,000, and that is to open a mini account; and do not, whatever you do, go over 6:1 leverage - that is 6 (mini) contracts, as you will be trading the equivalent of $60,000. How much is your house worth?
Then, do not day trade, only your broker will make money; use weekly charts for trends, daily charts for entry; it is true, FOREX trends beautifully.
If you haven't got the money to open such an account, then trade ETFs, they are unleveraged.
Know your system like the back of your hand, specially when does it breaks down, as it is the source of drawdowns; learn not to trade when this happens. Backtest manually, it is harder and time consuming, but you'll learn the nuances and idiosyncrasy of the product you are trading.
Follow a trade journal, and study your trades, specially those which went wrong, when you feel calmer; what could you have done better?
Place wide stop losses, 400 pips on the EUR/USD, 500 pips on Cable; then use your own stop losses: what does the market have to do to prove your trade wrong? Get out and cut your losses. This way you will not fall victim to desk traders chasing stops.
For the time being, and until you build up your account, trade only one cross - no matter which one, but stick to it, do not go for others unless you have backtested them as I described above.
Use common sense; always be on the look out for new ideas, there is always something to learn; but forget gurus; no one, absolutely no one, can tell you what the market is going to do tomorrow, next week, next minute or the next second, so don't get overwhelmed by so called "professionals" who will use you and take out of you what they can and a bit more.
Relax and give yourself time - and have confidence in yourself.
That's all there is, really; boring, maybe, but harder than most people think - that's why most fail.
Hope this helps.

Eduardo.

 

[ragpijin]

Aaarrgghh!! Gosh, I try, but nobody seems to get it!!
OK, let's try again; trading is a personal endeavour, where you will test yourself to the limit.
I would like to ask you this question - and please, be honest, but to yourself: how much of a drawdown can you take? What is going to happen when you get there - and make no mistake, you will get there!
Nobody, no one can answer that question but yourself, and you won't be able to do that until you experience it!
That is the pain I am refering to; forget about help, certainly not from people like ragpijin who has already make clear that he is a professional.
You see, for them, we the private traders are the "dumb" money - the source of their bonuses, the other side of the trade; we exist to be plundered, period.
First, you need capital - tonnes of it, at least $10,000, and that is to open a mini account; and do not, whatever you do, go over 6:1 leverage - that is 6 (mini) contracts, as you will be trading the equivalent of $60,000. How much is your house worth?
Then, do not day trade, only your broker will make money; use weekly charts for trends, daily charts for entry; it is true, FOREX trends beautifully.
If you haven't got the money to open such an account, then trade ETFs, they are unleveraged.
Know your system like the back of your hand, specially when does it breaks down, as it is the source of drawdowns; learn not to trade when this happens. Backtest manually, it is harder and time consuming, but you'll learn the nuances and idiosyncrasy of the product you are trading.
Follow a trade journal, and study your trades, specially those which went wrong, when you feel calmer; what could you have done better?
Place wide stop losses, 400 pips on the EUR/USD, 500 pips on Cable; then use your own stop losses: what does the market have to do to prove your trade wrong? Get out and cut your losses. This way you will not fall victim to desk traders chasing stops.
For the time being, and until you build up your account, trade only one cross - no matter which one, but stick to it, do not go for others unless you have backtested them as I described above.
Use common sense; always be on the look out for new ideas, there is always something to learn; but forget gurus; no one, absolutely no one, can tell you what the market is going to do tomorrow, next week, next minute or the next second, so don't get overwhelmed by so called "professionals" who will use you and take out of you what they can and a bit more.
Relax and give yourself time - and have confidence in yourself.
That's all there is, really; boring, maybe, but harder than most people think - that's why most fail.
Hope this helps.

Eduardo.

Well thats pretty much spot on! Great advice Eduardo!

All id say in response to that whole post is maybe think about using a lot less that 6:1 leverage i personally use 2:1 ..... but i do know traders who use more .... you really have to find what YOU are comfortable with.

He is absolutely right about Gurus, they can not help you to make money all they can do is show you the best concepts to use when trying to approach the market etc.... and that is the best case scenario ...... guys that charge you for that service very rarely actually trade for themselves, the reason is simple, when you are trading large accounts 1 trade is more than the average persons whole years salary! .... so to be able to match this they would have to charge at least the same amount to make it economically viable (which is why they are charging in the first place) ... and if they were great traders it would never be more viable to teach than it is to trade.
So don't look to a coach or a guru ( even me ) with the thought that they will create you into a profitable trader , because there are lessons that you need to learn for your self ... and experiencing draw down and losses is a fantastic example of one of these experiences.

Not too sure about the bit about needing to use 400 pip stops though .... it is possible to day trade and scalp profitably over time .... as long as your expectations are in line with reality. (don't think that just because you are trading more you will make more!) and you can certainly use stops of 30 - 50 pips .... i know this because that's what i use!

the Safe trade is actually a great example of using stops like this ....

I am glad that we are starting to draw more good traders onto this thread now, because all the posts from guys like Eduardo and Rav contain some real Gems that new traders can really benefit from.

 

[ragpijin]

Hi Guys I just posted a new safe trade example from last week on the site / our you tube channel.

Any questions let me know!

YouTube - Safe trade example 12th feb 09

 

[rav700]

Losing Trades and How to Cope
It is always hard to deal with trading losses. Here are some simple trading rules that might help to calm nerves, to avoid further upset and so to keep us on path to pursue our goals:

1. It is all about capital preservation. Each trading losses should not exceed 5% of the total capital.
2. Set stop loss level to minimise trading errors.
3. Do not let winners turn into losers.
4. Use stop loss to protect profits.
5. Do not add on losers for cost averaging.
6. Stay sway or cut your losses when you become indecisive.
7. Rather wait and see when the market trend is not clear.
8. Trade when the market is active.
9. Do not enter because you are bored, likewise, do not exit because you are impatient.
10. Do not overtrade.
11. Do not simply alter your trading strategies if not for a sound reason.
12. Always remember that losing is part of the game.

Some very nice points which you should put in bold and print it out and stick in on the wall you are trading off..Will help you a lot......

 

[ragpijin]

Losing Trades and How to Cope
It is always hard to deal with trading losses. Here are some simple trading rules that might help to calm nerves, to avoid further upset and so to keep us on path to pursue our goals:

1. It is all about capital preservation. Each trading losses should not exceed 5% of the total capital.
2. Set stop loss level to minimise trading errors.
3. Do not let winners turn into losers.
4. Use stop loss to protect profits.
5. Do not add on losers for cost averaging.
6. Stay sway or cut your losses when you become indecisive.
7. Rather wait and see when the market trend is not clear.
8. Trade when the market is active.
9. Do not enter because you are bored, likewise, do not exit because you are impatient.
10. Do not overtrade.
11. Do not simply alter your trading strategies if not for a sound reason.
12. Always remember that losing is part of the game.

Some very nice points which you should put in bold and print it out and stick in on the wall you are trading off..Will help you a lot......

Thanks Rav,
that post is full of really useful tips to help new traders stay in existence! My favourite is point number 11 ..... this can be a real killer to most traders.

I wonder if anyone reading this has experienced the damage caused by not sticking with one system?

 

[Cooldent]

Very NICE Thread, I'm still learning ...

 

[MindYerBeak]

In response to the Doomslayers on this thread (aka failed traders who have spent a Cor Blimey month or so on Forex) I think you're being most unfair with the insults and criticism. It's a personal attack on a person for which you have no proof of your accusations, just your 'intuition'. No wonder you failed at Forex if this is where your intuition leads you. Back up your gobs with proof, then you'll have more credibility. Incidentally if you've given up on trading because making a profit is impossible, what are you doing on these forums? Giving everyone 'good' advice?

To be more positive, I've read the *free* courses on the site from beginning to end. I recently forked out £1,500 for a course which is basically the same, so jump in, Newbies. Had the Doomslayers (failed traders) killed off this thread the Newbies of this forum would have lost out on a £1,500 course, provided for free. With hindsight I could have saved myself £1,500. Don't let the Failed Traders (Doomslayers) put you off, folks. Visit the site and read both the courses, in the meantime saving yourselves some serious hard cash.

 

[rav700]

Master Ur Trading EQ

How To Increase Your Trading Emotional IQ



Did you know that the traders who lose the most money in trading are some of the most intelligent people?

So what’s causing them to lose money?

If you asked them, they would probably have different answers as to why this happens. They might blame the markets, politics, their system – or may even point to themselves.

From my experience dealing with many traders, it usually boils down to how traders, like you, manage their emotions and mindset. This is what I call trading emotional IQ.

Does the following scenario sound familiar? Markets are very volatile and all bets are off. You’ve forgotten your trading plan. You try to listen to every bit of news, and become more and more confused. You either become very trigger-happy or you freeze. The results are usually the same…you lose a lot of money and opportunities.

So what differentiate traders who don’t make money from those who make a lot of money? It’s the way we handle our emotions and mindset.

Have you ever noticed that when you say the same thing to two different people, one laughs at you and the other screams? That’s an indication of how they handle situations, and ultimately, what kind of results they are getting. By observing this, you can determine their emotional IQ.

We cannot deny our emotions. They are there. We are only in control of how we react to them. The good news is that we can modify our reactions and hence improve our trading results.

So what are some of the situations you are facing and how can you increase your trading emotional IQ?

1. How Do You Handle Success?

It’s very dangerous to win if you cannot control your emotions. You can become reckless, throw away your plans and trade from ego. When you trade from ego, you are gambling and letting your emotion take over. You might win in the short run – however, you’ll lose in the long run.

I had a client who after winning several trades would put in a trade that would wipe out all of his winnings. He would then wonder if trading was the right business for him or not. He was questioning the business instead of his behaviour…

The other tendency is to ignore your wins and assume that it’s no big deal. After all, you were expecting to win. Does this sound familiar? If so, you are not valuing your accomplishment. You are assuming that winning is a given. You’re forgetting that trading is about playing a game of probabilities. Every win deserves an acknowledgement.

What should you do when you win?

o Don’t take your wins for granted – take credit for the good job you’ve done.

o Celebrate it.

o Notice what you did that worked.

o Determine if there was anything you could have done better.

o Repeat the process that worked for you.

2. How Do You Handle Losses?

Usually, you are in two camps.

One is to blame yourself and become really frustrated and angry. You can’t forget the loss and your focus turns toward the negative P&L. When you are in a bad mood, you are unable to notice other opportunities that are right in front of you. Therefore, you end up losing a lot more.

The second camp is, you try to ignore the loss altogether and can’t see it for what it is. You become anxious to make up the loss. Therefore, you take unwarranted risk and you increase your position. Then you lose even more. You get into a vicious cycle – the more you lose, the more you risk and then you lose even more…

What are the steps you can take to manage your emotions when you are losing?

o Don’t make it global – Don’t say, “I always lose. I have bad luck. Markets are always against me.” By saying these, you set negative expectations and drain your energy.

o Think about your losing trade as an isolated event.

Have you noticed what successful basketball players do? When they miss a shot, they don’t think about the shot they have missed – they concentrate on the next shot.

When you lose a trade, don’t focus on the loss. Focus on what is ahead of you.

o When you lose, don’t lose the lessons. Look at:

§ What worked
§ What did not work
§ What did you learn about
- Market?
- Yourself?
- The security that you were trading?
- The methods that you were using?

3. How Do You Handle Fear?

A common way that people handle fear is to assume that they don’t know enough. They study more, read more, find different gurus to listen to, take more classes and attend more seminars. They say to themselves, “If I know more, then I won’t make any mistakes and won’t lose any money or opportunities.”

The reality is that by staying out of the game, you are not really learning how to play the game.

Think about an athlete. They can hear the rules, read and learn them. However, unless they are in the game and practicing, they are not going to get good at it

What are the steps you can take to handle your fear?

o As Nike says, Just DO IT!!!

o Remember something that you have done well. Remember how you felt and what you said to yourself. How did you see yourself…? This way, you will feel better about yourself and can move forward.

o Celebrate your mistakes and nervousness.

I know this might sound funny. However, when we were growing up, we learned that if we did something wrong, we would be punished. To avoid punishment, most of us were afraid of making mistakes – therefore, we experimented less and less. We didn’t take serious action unless we were sure of the outcome. Does this sound familiar?

By celebrating our mistakes, we are saying to ourselves that it’s OK to experiment. It is OK to try new things. Then we are more encouraged to change things a bit.

o Your past results are not equal to your future results – if you have failed in the past, it doesn’t mean that you are going to fail again.

o Know that you do not have to prove anything to anyone. Just take action…

4. Are You Being Present?

Are you allowing the markets to dictate your mood? So, when you win, you feel euphoric and when you lose, you feel angry? Are you equating your performance with who you are and how you feel?

If you are bored, do you try to find a trade even when there is none and thus sabotage yourself?

Do you get distracted with the news and let it impact your moods?

When you are not in the right state of mind, it does not help your trading.

As you think about a successful athlete, what emotional characteristic comes to mind? You notice that they are focused. They do not allow what happened a second ago to impact what they are going to do next – or they are going to lose.

What are some techniques you can use to change your mood?

o Use the pause method. Take a break.

o Take some deep breaths – by doing so, you’ll increase the amount of oxygen to your brain and thus relax your muscles.

o Listen to uplifting music. Studies have shown that one of the quickest ways to change your mood is by listening to music. When you go to the movies, the way they try to get you feel a certain emotion is by selecting the right music for the scene. Think about the “Mission Impossible” movies. What music comes to mind?

o Change your focus – concentrate on something that you enjoy.

o Have gratitude – think about the things that you are grateful for. Creativity and abundance come from a place of gratitude.


5. Are You Taking Responsibility?

What I mean by “taking responsibility” is to manage your own expectations.

Remember, trading is risky – the outcome is based on probabilities. It’s not guaranteed.

When trading, ask, “If I take this risk, am I able to accept and embrace it?” If you cannot, then this trade is not right for you.

If you cannot accept any risk, then you are in the wrong business.

You may have heard the saying, “Do not see the market as you want to see it. See it as it is.”

Your success is not about what is happening in the markets. It’s about your reaction to these markets.

Albert Einstein said, “The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. “

 

[ragpijin]

Master Ur Trading EQ

How To Increase Your Trading Emotional IQ



Did you know that the traders who lose the most money in trading are some of the most intelligent people?

So what’s causing them to lose money?

If you asked them, they would probably have different answers as to why this happens. They might blame the markets, politics, their system – or may even point to themselves.

From my experience dealing with many traders, it usually boils down to how traders, like you, manage their emotions and mindset. This is what I call trading emotional IQ.

Does the following scenario sound familiar? Markets are very volatile and all bets are off. You’ve forgotten your trading plan. You try to listen to every bit of news, and become more and more confused. You either become very trigger-happy or you freeze. The results are usually the same…you lose a lot of money and opportunities.

So what differentiate traders who don’t make money from those who make a lot of money? It’s the way we handle our emotions and mindset.

Have you ever noticed that when you say the same thing to two different people, one laughs at you and the other screams? That’s an indication of how they handle situations, and ultimately, what kind of results they are getting. By observing this, you can determine their emotional IQ.

We cannot deny our emotions. They are there. We are only in control of how we react to them. The good news is that we can modify our reactions and hence improve our trading results.

So what are some of the situations you are facing and how can you increase your trading emotional IQ?

1. How Do You Handle Success?

It’s very dangerous to win if you cannot control your emotions. You can become reckless, throw away your plans and trade from ego. When you trade from ego, you are gambling and letting your emotion take over. You might win in the short run – however, you’ll lose in the long run.

I had a client who after winning several trades would put in a trade that would wipe out all of his winnings. He would then wonder if trading was the right business for him or not. He was questioning the business instead of his behaviour…

The other tendency is to ignore your wins and assume that it’s no big deal. After all, you were expecting to win. Does this sound familiar? If so, you are not valuing your accomplishment. You are assuming that winning is a given. You’re forgetting that trading is about playing a game of probabilities. Every win deserves an acknowledgement.

What should you do when you win?

o Don’t take your wins for granted – take credit for the good job you’ve done.

o Celebrate it.

o Notice what you did that worked.

o Determine if there was anything you could have done better.

o Repeat the process that worked for you.

2. How Do You Handle Losses?

Usually, you are in two camps.

One is to blame yourself and become really frustrated and angry. You can’t forget the loss and your focus turns toward the negative P&L. When you are in a bad mood, you are unable to notice other opportunities that are right in front of you. Therefore, you end up losing a lot more.

The second camp is, you try to ignore the loss altogether and can’t see it for what it is. You become anxious to make up the loss. Therefore, you take unwarranted risk and you increase your position. Then you lose even more. You get into a vicious cycle – the more you lose, the more you risk and then you lose even more…

What are the steps you can take to manage your emotions when you are losing?

o Don’t make it global – Don’t say, “I always lose. I have bad luck. Markets are always against me.” By saying these, you set negative expectations and drain your energy.

o Think about your losing trade as an isolated event.

Have you noticed what successful basketball players do? When they miss a shot, they don’t think about the shot they have missed – they concentrate on the next shot.

When you lose a trade, don’t focus on the loss. Focus on what is ahead of you.

o When you lose, don’t lose the lessons. Look at:

§ What worked
§ What did not work
§ What did you learn about
- Market?
- Yourself?
- The security that you were trading?
- The methods that you were using?

3. How Do You Handle Fear?

A common way that people handle fear is to assume that they don’t know enough. They study more, read more, find different gurus to listen to, take more classes and attend more seminars. They say to themselves, “If I know more, then I won’t make any mistakes and won’t lose any money or opportunities.”

The reality is that by staying out of the game, you are not really learning how to play the game.

Think about an athlete. They can hear the rules, read and learn them. However, unless they are in the game and practicing, they are not going to get good at it

What are the steps you can take to handle your fear?

o As Nike says, Just DO IT!!!

o Remember something that you have done well. Remember how you felt and what you said to yourself. How did you see yourself…? This way, you will feel better about yourself and can move forward.

o Celebrate your mistakes and nervousness.

I know this might sound funny. However, when we were growing up, we learned that if we did something wrong, we would be punished. To avoid punishment, most of us were afraid of making mistakes – therefore, we experimented less and less. We didn’t take serious action unless we were sure of the outcome. Does this sound familiar?

By celebrating our mistakes, we are saying to ourselves that it’s OK to experiment. It is OK to try new things. Then we are more encouraged to change things a bit.

o Your past results are not equal to your future results – if you have failed in the past, it doesn’t mean that you are going to fail again.

o Know that you do not have to prove anything to anyone. Just take action…

4. Are You Being Present?

Are you allowing the markets to dictate your mood? So, when you win, you feel euphoric and when you lose, you feel angry? Are you equating your performance with who you are and how you feel?

If you are bored, do you try to find a trade even when there is none and thus sabotage yourself?

Do you get distracted with the news and let it impact your moods?

When you are not in the right state of mind, it does not help your trading.

As you think about a successful athlete, what emotional characteristic comes to mind? You notice that they are focused. They do not allow what happened a second ago to impact what they are going to do next – or they are going to lose.

What are some techniques you can use to change your mood?

o Use the pause method. Take a break.

o Take some deep breaths – by doing so, you’ll increase the amount of oxygen to your brain and thus relax your muscles.

o Listen to uplifting music. Studies have shown that one of the quickest ways to change your mood is by listening to music. When you go to the movies, the way they try to get you feel a certain emotion is by selecting the right music for the scene. Think about the “Mission Impossible” movies. What music comes to mind?

o Change your focus – concentrate on something that you enjoy.

o Have gratitude – think about the things that you are grateful for. Creativity and abundance come from a place of gratitude.


5. Are You Taking Responsibility?

What I mean by “taking responsibility” is to manage your own expectations.

Remember, trading is risky – the outcome is based on probabilities. It’s not guaranteed.

When trading, ask, “If I take this risk, am I able to accept and embrace it?” If you cannot, then this trade is not right for you.

If you cannot accept any risk, then you are in the wrong business.

You may have heard the saying, “Do not see the market as you want to see it. See it as it is.”

Your success is not about what is happening in the markets. It’s about your reaction to these markets.

Albert Einstein said, “The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. “

Wow what a great post! some really great points in there rav.

J

 

[morris2728]

I've just read this thread by scanning comments from the start to the end, I think its is very commendable that ragpijin has put all this effort into helping others. I will be spending the time to check out your website.

 

[Splitlink]

The idea of the site is try and help as many unsuccessful traders as i can without it taking up my own trading time.

I don't believe it.

No one sets up a site like that on anything but a commercial basis.

 

[ragpijin]

I don't believe it.

No one sets up a site like that on anything but a commercial basis.

Well Fortunately you don't need to believe it, because its there for everyone to see.