intradaybill
Well-known member
- Messages
- 358
- Likes
- 14
The only bad thing about the upgrade is that if you choose to upgrade you loose your lifetime license.
Very greedy on the companies part. My opinion of them is not as high as it once was.
Chorlton
Established member
- Messages
- 693
- Likes
- 48
Hello All,
I've been reading this thread with great interest although I haven't read every single post which is probably why I'm now posting these questions.
For all those who currently use this software, can anyone advise on the following:
1) What type of patterns does this software search for? By this I mean how complicated are the patterns and how many bars (on average) do these patterns consist of? For example, in the article written by Michael Harris Nov 2006, a pattern is discussed (Inside Day) which consists of just 3 bars.
2) Is there any other way to define the stop apart from a "% away from price" stop. The reason I ask is that from experience this type of stop is one of the worst types to capture profits compared to say a volatility type stop.
3) Does the pattern search only work on ONE chart at a time or can it work on a portfolio of charts and assess which patterns are profitably over the WHOLE Portfolio.
The reason I ask is that if it only searches one chart at a time then this is ok if one trades indices but of little use if ones trades equities as obviously these would be traded as a portfolio and not invidually. To find patterns (whether profitable or not) in one stock does not automatically mean that they exist in another stock.
4) Has anyone used this software in combination with Amibroker?
5) Can one modify the timeframe of the chart used in the pattern search? eg. Change from Daily to Weekly
6) Without having to register myself with an email address, etc, can anyone confirm the cost of this software?
7) What price data format does APS require? I currently receive my data in "Metastock" format and would prefer to keep it that way as I use it in both in MS and Amibroker.
8) On a side note, the fact that you are searching for precise patterns in past data (which hopefully will be traded in the future,) doesn't this method run the danger of "curve-fitting" moreso than if one "back-tests"a specific trading strategy?? My reasoning is that by backtesting a specific set of rules, normally some logic has been previously applied to those rules in comparison to simply searching for random patterns within price data??
Many Thanks in advance,
Chorlton
I've been reading this thread with great interest although I haven't read every single post which is probably why I'm now posting these questions.
For all those who currently use this software, can anyone advise on the following:
1) What type of patterns does this software search for? By this I mean how complicated are the patterns and how many bars (on average) do these patterns consist of? For example, in the article written by Michael Harris Nov 2006, a pattern is discussed (Inside Day) which consists of just 3 bars.
2) Is there any other way to define the stop apart from a "% away from price" stop. The reason I ask is that from experience this type of stop is one of the worst types to capture profits compared to say a volatility type stop.
3) Does the pattern search only work on ONE chart at a time or can it work on a portfolio of charts and assess which patterns are profitably over the WHOLE Portfolio.
The reason I ask is that if it only searches one chart at a time then this is ok if one trades indices but of little use if ones trades equities as obviously these would be traded as a portfolio and not invidually. To find patterns (whether profitable or not) in one stock does not automatically mean that they exist in another stock.
4) Has anyone used this software in combination with Amibroker?
5) Can one modify the timeframe of the chart used in the pattern search? eg. Change from Daily to Weekly
6) Without having to register myself with an email address, etc, can anyone confirm the cost of this software?
7) What price data format does APS require? I currently receive my data in "Metastock" format and would prefer to keep it that way as I use it in both in MS and Amibroker.
8) On a side note, the fact that you are searching for precise patterns in past data (which hopefully will be traded in the future,) doesn't this method run the danger of "curve-fitting" moreso than if one "back-tests"a specific trading strategy?? My reasoning is that by backtesting a specific set of rules, normally some logic has been previously applied to those rules in comparison to simply searching for random patterns within price data??
Many Thanks in advance,
Chorlton
Last edited:
intradaybill
Well-known member
- Messages
- 358
- Likes
- 14
Hi Chorlton,
I've been doing some testing with the demo version of the program and although I'm not sure I will purchase it I can try to answer your questions based on my limited experience with it.
The patterns are based on price, OHLC values and can go up to 6 bars AFAIK.
You can also use point stops away from entry price. No volatility stops. I suppose if you have the full version and can get the code of the patterns you can apply volatility stops in Tradestation (also Metastock and Wealth-Lab I figured) but I cannot do that with the demo.
The pattern search works on one chart at a time but you can have many charts in a search session with different stops. The program does not report patterns common to a portfolio but I think I can do that after exporting the results of a multiple chart search to excel. It may take some work but if I get the program it will be really useful thing to do.
I don't think it generates code for Amibroker but I have a question for you now. Do you prefer Amibroker over Tradestation for backtesting purposes? How do the two languages compare? Which is easier to develop code with? I have Metastock but its capabilities are limited.
I have done that already. I have a VB program that converts text files to different time frames starting from tick data. APS does not take into account the time frame as far as I understand. You do not even need a date, an integer count will do. The program considers only raw prices.
There is a conversion function in the program for Metastock text files I already used. You can also convert several files at once. I have an earlier version of Metastock but it still works well.
I just checked the link and they have a special for USD 1195 good for five years.
I would appreciate your feedback on Amibroker functionality.
Bill
I've been doing some testing with the demo version of the program and although I'm not sure I will purchase it I can try to answer your questions based on my limited experience with it.
The patterns are based on price, OHLC values and can go up to 6 bars AFAIK.
You can also use point stops away from entry price. No volatility stops. I suppose if you have the full version and can get the code of the patterns you can apply volatility stops in Tradestation (also Metastock and Wealth-Lab I figured) but I cannot do that with the demo.
The pattern search works on one chart at a time but you can have many charts in a search session with different stops. The program does not report patterns common to a portfolio but I think I can do that after exporting the results of a multiple chart search to excel. It may take some work but if I get the program it will be really useful thing to do.
I don't think it generates code for Amibroker but I have a question for you now. Do you prefer Amibroker over Tradestation for backtesting purposes? How do the two languages compare? Which is easier to develop code with? I have Metastock but its capabilities are limited.
I have done that already. I have a VB program that converts text files to different time frames starting from tick data. APS does not take into account the time frame as far as I understand. You do not even need a date, an integer count will do. The program considers only raw prices.
There is a conversion function in the program for Metastock text files I already used. You can also convert several files at once. I have an earlier version of Metastock but it still works well.
I just checked the link and they have a special for USD 1195 good for five years.
I would appreciate your feedback on Amibroker functionality.
Bill
Chorlton
Established member
- Messages
- 693
- Likes
- 48
Hello Bill,
Thanks for the detailed reply. My main focus these days is in Mechanical System Development and although I have many ideas that I want to backtest, there is little guarantee that they will become profitable once testing has been completed.
The idea of having a program search for potentially profitable patterns helps to reduce this initial "trial & error" phase, so hence my interest in APS.
Regarding your question, unfortunately, I have never used Tradestation so can't offer any comments abouts how they compare.
Instead, like you I used to use MS. Although MS was a powerful package, certain elements of it like the System Tester were IMO next to useless due to the fact that you could only test individual securities which unfortunately does not mimic how one would actually trade.
To overcome this, I purchased a separate piece of software for backtesting called TradeSim which allowed me to carry out Monte Carlo analysis.
My final reason for changing charting packages though was that MS starting crashing on me while running explorations. The dreaded "MSWin" error used to appear resulting in the program crashing. I tried resolving this problem through direct contact with Equis Support and also through this and other forum sites but with little luck.
In the end I decided to uninstall it and try something else. IMO Amibroker is a first-class piece of software. The price IMO is extremly low ($189 and $259) for Standard & Pro editions considering what can be accomplised with it.
Unfortunately, not have a programming background I intially found it a little difficult to use and compared to say MS requires a bit more effort to set up the basic things. HOWEVER, once over this initial pain , Amibroker's features far outweigh those of MS. On a side note, I find it laughable that AB can open a MS chart, for example, quicker than MS can !!!!
Amibroker uses its own langauge (AFL) and even though does take some getting used to, a lot of of the function names and how they operate are similar to MS.
Because of its own language, the coding possibilities are endless. On top of that AB has some nice features such as Bar Replay as well as the ability check if ones code is referencing future events. I remember using some code which I had found which when backtested resulted in staggering profits. It was only when I checked if future data was being referenced that I realised why the system was so profitable!!! Considering the number of lines of code involved, there would have been no way for me to manually discover this, which could have resulted in me actually trading this system!!! ..and losing money!!
In terms of Support, Tomasz Janeczko who wrote the program responds very quickly to issues. Plus there is a forum on Yahoo where experienced users help each other out.
I don't confess to be currently very good at Programming AFL but one thing is certain is that I will continue to use AB in my Trading. Compared to one else is on the market Amibroker at its price should be seriously considered.
AB has a free trial version which you can download and play around with. Definately worth giving a go IMO.
AmiBroker - Technical Analysis Software. Charting, Backtesting, Scanning of stocks, futures, mutual funds, forex (currencies). Alerts. Free quotes.
Regards,
Chorlton
intradaybill
Well-known member
- Messages
- 358
- Likes
- 14
Looks like a very powerful language but suitable for experienced programmers IMO. Easylanguage was designed for traders by traders it seems. I have not studied programming and I do not think I can learn to write complex code at this point. This is one reason I liked Metastock although as you say it is not as powerful as Amibroker but the language is simple enough for me. I had the same problems with Metatrader, another very good program but with a difficult to learn programming language for those with no experience to code.
I also like the fact that APS outputs code for Metastock and I can just copy it and then paste it in the System Tester. Anyway, thanks for you input, very helpful.
Bill
Pat494
Legendary member
- Messages
- 14,614
- Likes
- 1,588
I have pasted the code into an expert programme for each index on Metastock and it works very well. That was about a year ago and its as good as ever. Occasional large drawdowns can be a problem though.
intradaybill
Well-known member
- Messages
- 358
- Likes
- 14
HI Pat, you are an APS user I suppose. Do you recommend the program and does the Metastock code it generates work well?
Having a program to find patterns and on top of that generate code for Metastock I can use without having to develop code myself sounds too good to be true but I hear people saying that it actual works.
Bill
Chorlton
Established member
- Messages
- 693
- Likes
- 48
Bill,
I too have little experience at Programming and initially the AFL language does looks more complicated. However, I have found that I have been able to translate my old MS codes into AFL with little difficulty.
One thing I've realised is that one can makes things as complicated or as easy as you like. If you're happy with your current package then no worries, otherwise I would definately take a look at it....
All IMO....
To all those who currently use APS with Metastock, what format is your data supplied in?
If its in MS readable format, do you physically convert all your data into the format required by APS? If so, does this mean that you are in fact storing TWO databases of identical data (apart from the difference in format)?
I ask, as this is one of the things that puts me off APS, as currently my data is also supplied in MS readable format, for use in MS and AB.
Thanks,
Chorlton
intradaybill
Well-known member
- Messages
- 358
- Likes
- 14
Thanks Chorlton, I think I need to get up to speed with programming anyway. I will download the Amibroker demo to see what the program can do.
I used Metastock data with the APS demo already quite easily so. You can convert a number of files using the downloader to ascii text and then use a function supplied by APS to convert all files to the program format. You need to do that only once for using the search function of the program. The scan function is a bit different I figured and you need to update the files to use it. The two-step conversion takes time to do on a daily basis but if I buy the program I will also buy a little utility that converts MS data to ascii format of your choice. I don't see APS reading MS format directly.
Bill
APS is an amazing piece of software that does exactly what the company advertises. Support is excellent.
I use it daily to scan data I export from a TeleChart watchlist of 100 high cap stocks. It takes less than 15 minutes to do the job.
I also have 4 different systems I got from a search of major index data in the system tracking side and the signals tell me with high probability the market direction.
Ron
intradaybill
Well-known member
- Messages
- 358
- Likes
- 14
Thanks Ron, I decided to buy the software. The results I got from the demo tests are very promising.
Bill
Hello Bill, APS is the best pattern program especially if you use Tradestation/Wealth-Lab/Metastock. Just make sure you forward-test patterns and select the best ones based on profit factor and win/loss ratio.
New version with close/open-to-close scan is now available:
APS Automatic Pattern Search Version Releases
This is great news for APS users who are very short term or intraday traders.
Alex
See:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/software/14298-automatic-pattern-search-9.html#post399812
APS offers a fast way of finding many profitable patterns in many markets but if you are a newbie you should know that historical profitability does not guarantee future profitability. It is always a good idea to view these programs as tools and use a combination of techniques to increase your probability of success.
I upgraded yesterday to the latest APS version and it is great. Now you can see the profit factor value when you backtest patterns and rank them accordingly without the need to generate code for your program and run the backtest there, which takes time to do. Exit on next bar close is a very nice feature but I wish they included that in the search part also.
Alex
Aps
Thanks Alex, thats useful info. I'm not entirely new to system development having experimented building systems using Tradestation/Wealth-Lab and currently concentrating on currency trading using Metatrader. I entered the Automated Trading Championship (Metatrader platform) last year and did quite well using a simple price action system, however this system is not currently doing that well in further testing.
I'm hoping that APS will give me the edge that I'm looking for but as you say its not a holy grail on its own. I'm interested in building short term ( 1 hour or less time frame) currency trading systems. What markets are you trading and are you able to say anything about your own model selection process?
Regards
Manmohan
Thanks Alex, thats useful info. I'm not entirely new to system development having experimented building systems using Tradestation/Wealth-Lab and currently concentrating on currency trading using Metatrader. I entered the Automated Trading Championship (Metatrader platform) last year and did quite well using a simple price action system, however this system is not currently doing that well in further testing.
I'm hoping that APS will give me the edge that I'm looking for but as you say its not a holy grail on its own. I'm interested in building short term ( 1 hour or less time frame) currency trading systems. What markets are you trading and are you able to say anything about your own model selection process?
Regards
Manmohan
I seems you can use Metatrader data after a few conversions:
APS Automatic Pattern Search - Metatrader
If you can program in Metatrader language you can probably write a few lines of code to output directly the data in a format compatible with APS.
I'm trading US futures and equities, as well as some European futures, but I'm also looking at forex lately. I have several models in APS system tracking, including a few for EFFs, and I use the scan option with daily data to check for new patterns in S&P 500 stocks. I then combine any signals I get from APS with a few indicators I have developed. So far, last year I did pretty well and this year I am making a small profit after a drawdown in January.
I think forex is tough but worths a try with small risk. I downloaded the free NinjaTrader platform and use the daily data with APS because no conversion is required. But I have not put any money at risk yet in that market so I cannot say anything about it.
But one thing I have noticed is that you can make money in intraday forex only during specific hours, which may vary as well, and it seems easy to lose money during other times when there is no substantial liquidity in that market. I think 30 minute or hourly bars is the best choice for short term trading in this market. Also, I would consider 4 hour bars in some markets.
Good luck,
Alex
Aps
Thanks Alex I am looking at the demo version currently and will probably buy the software next week.
Regards
Manmohan
Thanks Alex I am looking at the demo version currently and will probably buy the software next week.
Regards
Manmohan
