ZuluTrade

[Lord Flasheart]

The vast majority of traders on zulu lose,just like any other form of trading. All the guys that hit the top fall away as most average in and increase stakes so eventually lose big. However thats not to say you shouldnt follow them in reverse and just wait for them to fail

 

[Pat494]

I think people are looking at sites like ZuluTrade in the wrong light. As a serious trader, your goal should not be to become a subscriber. Your goal should be to develop your own winning trading system and become a signal PROVIDER. If you can pull it off you will get a lot of subs, you will make people a lot of money, you will make money and you can reinvest that money in your own trades. It's a win, win for everyone. If your system sucks, you will get no subscribers and you won't hurt anyone or yourself.

The above is what I thought more or less. It has taken me quite a long time to get a demo AAAFX account ( they have the smallest spreads and a good hook up to MT4 and Zulu). Then of course one needs some trades, preferably winning ones. I started well last week and was soon up. I looked to see where I was on the Zulu trade league table thinking riches were surely coming my way. er just over 27,000 ish. A long way to go it seems. But worth the effort overall even if I don't get any followers. I'm not sure how many total followers there are but I think I saw somewhere that is 114,000 + !!
Took a whole day to hook up the accounts.

 

[BurtsDog]

worth the effort overall even if I don't get any followers.

Good luck man. I'm rooting for ya.

 

[Pat494]

Good luck man. I'm rooting for ya.

Thanks - will let you know how I get on.

Will you try to become a signal provider ?

 

[BurtsDog]

Thanks - will let you know how I get on.

Will you try to become a signal provider ?

Cool. I'd like to hear about your experiences. My first system probably won't be ready for another year but I am seriously contemplating becoming a signal provider. To me, it's the next best thing to having something like your own hedge fund. If you have a winning system the quickest way to wealth is to share it with other people and earn a fee, then reinvest your fees into your own signals. It just takes too long to become wealthy if only trading your own account. Plus, providing signals creates a very visible track record making it hard for a trader to hide from his mistakes and keeps him honest with himself. I think signal providing is a great idea.

 

[BurtsDog]

Was checking out the signal providers on ZuluTrade. Did not do an extensive search and not 100% sure about my math but it seems like the best providers are only making around $20,000 USD per year. A provider with $2,500,000 in followers / $100,000 (one lot) x $10 per pip / 2 (.5 pips per traded lot provider fee) x 365 (days per year) / 2 (one trade every 2 days) = $22,812

That's a bit disappointing if my math is correct but, then again, if people are following your demo account that's still a decent amount of money for taking basically no risk. If you are following your own trades then of course you can make a lot more if your system doesn't break. I think I saw one SP with around 2.5 million who trades about once per day. So I guess he is making around $45,000 but he was the only one I saw at that level.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Was checking out the signal providers on ZuluTrade. Did not do an extensive search and not 100% sure about my math but it seems like the best providers are only making around $20,000 USD per year. A provider with $2,500,000 in followers / $100,000 (one lot) x $10 per pip / 2 (.5 pips per traded lot provider fee) x 365 (days per year) / 2 (one trade every 2 days) = $22,812

That's a bit disappointing if my math is correct but, then again, if people are following your demo account that's still a decent amount of money for taking basically no risk. If you are following your own trades then of course you can make a lot more if your system doesn't break. I think I saw one SP with around 2.5 million who trades about once per day. So I guess he is making around $45,000 but he was the only one I saw at that level.

The best way to look at it is by the number of followers. The amount following is very misleading,it only represents what is in the accounts of the followers. If you have 1000 following then you get 1000 x .05 for every microlot. Thats $50 for every trade you make. Some will take up to 10 trades a day as an average.I have seen up to 25m following and I think 5000 followers. Zulu publicly said they have paid one trader over $1m. Sadly all the guys that were earning that amount have blown their followers money. As I have stated there may be more to be earnt from reversing all the trades. The top guy does however look very good having made 3500 pips using 1 contract. Its a shame that the big followers have all gone elsewhere because they were putting all their faith into Zuluss ranking system and not reading between the lines. Every single top trader has failed over a period of time. Just log the top 30 and see where they are in two months, its very revealing.There is money to be made but not by following forward or reverse(unless you have a huge balance). it needs to be a weghted combination of the two IMHO

 

[sniper012]

Ok. My math is not great but...let's look at the number one provider. He has 5,525 followers. If he received 1 pip per provider per trade, that would be $5,525 per trade, assuming all of these are live followers and also assuming that all of them took the trade. But as a provider you get a half pip per trade so that would instead be $2,762 per trade, again, assuming that all of his followers are live. Now if I'm not mistaken, this provider executed 4 trades this week which would have earned him $11,050 this week alone. But let's say for arguments sake that only half of his followers are live, that's still $5,525 in one week. Again, my math isn't great. Feel free to correct and enlighten me if I am off base.

Was checking out the signal providers on ZuluTrade. Did not do an extensive search and not 100% sure about my math but it seems like the best providers are only making around $20,000 USD per year. A provider with $2,500,000 in followers / $100,000 (one lot) x $10 per pip / 2 (.5 pips per traded lot provider fee) x 365 (days per year) / 2 (one trade every 2 days) = $22,812

That's a bit disappointing if my math is correct but, then again, if people are following your demo account that's still a decent amount of money for taking basically no risk. If you are following your own trades then of course you can make a lot more if your system doesn't break. I think I saw one SP with around 2.5 million who trades about once per day. So I guess he is making around $45,000 but he was the only one I saw at that level.

 

[BurtsDog]

as a provider you get a half pip per trade

Actually, you only get .5 pip per trade from followers not living in the US. For US followers you get some flat rate based on the subscription they pay to ZuluTrade.

http://www.zulutrade.com/trader-guide

This lady tried to figure out what signal providers make, but I noticed she only posted articles for about 6 months then vanished so who knows about her accuracy. I think all, or nearly all, of the SP's she wrote about have gone bust since then.

http://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/zulutrade-how-much-signal-providers-earn

 

[tar]

Thanks. I just get confused. Is looking at the number of followers more effective than checking the overall PIP profit?

Both are meaningless ... as LF said i will fade and reverse the signals ...this is the best way to use zulutrade but you need a strategy , tight spreads and sound MM .

 

[Pat494]

At least going in the right direction, now between 3k and 4k. Have to get the Zulu rating down to double figures to get any followers it seems.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Thanks. I just get confused. Is looking at the number of followers more effective than checking the overall PIP profit?

As Tar said,its all meaningless. I have studied Zulu and others for a long while and just trust me. Enter with extreme cautions, figures are great to play with. All of the providers end up losing,or have so far. When they say the top 10 traders have accumulated over x number of pips etc,remember it is the current top 10 and not the same top 10, 3 months ago. Of course the top 10 will have a huge total.
Just do this excercise and all will become clear.
1) open a 30 day demo followers account
2) copy the top 30 traders
3) when theyve had a big dd(around 20%) cut them off. See how much theyve lost at the end of the month

4) The following month do the same in reverse and compare the two months. Strange but you will probably lose in both which is why Tar said you need a really good MM strategy to operate it properly.

Having said that I believe that you can make money on Zulu. I would welcome a discussion about the number one provider as however I look at it he seems like the real deal,and there are a couple of others as well. Hes got all those pips using one contract and not averaged in at all,How?

 

[Pat494]

Just checked. There were 2 mighty traders - Kama-spot and Saved FX. Actually both run by the same man but nowhere on Zulu now. Did he have a falling out with Zulu ?

I do see that the current numbers 2 and 3 have been with Zulu more than 2 years though.
( Daily Bot and apure_mingchang ).

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Just checked. There were 2 mighty traders - Kama-spot and Saved FX. Actually both run by the same man but nowhere on Zulu now. Did he have a falling out with Zulu ?

I do see that the current numbers 2 and 3 have been with Zulu more than 2 years though.
( Daily Bot and apure_mingchang ).

No,they blew there account and disabled it. Lots open up many accounts and eventually get a good one going which sooner or later go bust. Kama-spot is just one example of what Im talking about. There are many that have had $20M following and then blow the account. Forex cruise control is another great example of that.

 

[Pat494]

The current number 1 TootumsW looks good.
Perhaps the strain gets too great after a while ?

 

[Lord Flasheart]

The current number 1 TootumsW looks good.
Perhaps the strain gets too great after a while ?

could be if he goes belly up, but the others systems and methods were always going to fail. It would be nice if he maintained his results,good for the industry

 

[BurtsDog]

Kama-spot blew up around June 2013 and Saved FX blew up around April 2013. Sad to read the posts of followers.

Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:44 PM
"now that you destroyed nearly 6000 pips profits and you are practically at zero pips you must stop trading"

http://www.zulutrade.com/forum/ViewTopic.aspx?t=124874&page=175

Wed Apr 10, 2013 08:46 AM
"Wish I could have an option for -Ve rating, finally you (Kama and Saved FX) managed to kill my account"

http://www.zulutrade.com/forum/ViewTopic.aspx?t=124874&page=1

 

[Pat494]

Kama-spot blew up around June 2013 and Saved FX blew up around April 2013. Sad to read the posts of followers.

Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:44 PM
"now that you destroyed nearly 6000 pips profits and you are practically at zero pips you must stop trading"

http://www.zulutrade.com/forum/ViewTopic.aspx?t=124874&page=175

Wed Apr 10, 2013 08:46 AM
"Wish I could have an option for -Ve rating, finally you (Kama and Saved FX) managed to kill my account"

http://www.zulutrade.com/forum/ViewTopic.aspx?t=124874&page=1

Must have cost some people a lot of money.

A simple question has sprung to mind. Can demo accounts earn money ?

 

[BurtsDog]

The current number 1 TootumsW looks good.
Perhaps the strain gets too great after a while ?

I think the signal providers all have terrible EAs they basically copy and paste and tweak a little. So far I have seen no truly professional signal providers either past nor present. Of course, this is what you might expect if followers are looking to triple their money in 1 year. You're going to see gamblers trying to give them what they want and it's not going to work for long. Even the best hedge fund managers with thoroughly tested, robust systems only make around 20% to 30% per year in client accounts and maybe around 120% per year in their personal accounts (because they are allowed to take on more leverage in their personal accounts). There are some exceptions, but very few. In Hedge Fund Market Wizards, Jaffray Woodriff took his personal account from 300K to 6 million in 18 months before launching his current hedge fund. However, I don't think he has repeated that feat. He has made around 118% per year in his personal account for something like 11 years in a row now. He is one of the best of the best who makes 100 million per year just in performance bonuses and people are not going to find guys like him on ZuluTrade. Anyone that good is going to have his own fund or work for a fund. ZT followers hoping to triple their money in 1 year by copying untested systems from amateur SPs really don't have a prayer IMO. What ZuluTrade needs are some professional SPs who shoot for realistic returns like 20% per year (maybe 50% per year on leverage) and max draw downs that do not exceed the average annual ROI and that only happen about once every 5 years, not once every couple of months. Roughly speaking, a professional (ready 'trustworthy') system is going to experience a max drawn down about once every 5 years and it should not be more than the average annual ROI. When you see a signal provider who's been active for 3.5 years and who's lifetime ROI is 900% (ROI of 250% per year) you can bet that system is going to have a drawn down of -250% at some point. Of course, positions should be automatically closed on ZuluTrade at -700 pips but still - the theoretical expected draw down of -250% gives you an idea of how risky even the best SPs are.

 

[BurtsDog]

Can demo accounts earn money ?

If you are a signal provider you are not required to have a 'live' account (an account with money). You can send your signals via a demo account. However, followers are made aware of this by ZT and many understandably don't like it because they realize the SP does not have any skin in the game. In other words, he has no real faith in his own system.