After taking a quick look my first impression is he might be using a fairly straight forward long/short trend following system that is long when the trend is up and short when the trend is down.
After taking a quick look my first impression is he might be using a fairly straight forward long/short trend following system that is long when the trend is up and short when the trend is down.
Looks like he dropped to #44 for some reason.
Lord Flasheart
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pootums has now dropped to rank of 44. The top provider has a drawdown of 8000 pips. It just emphasises what I am saying,he will surely go bust,just a matter of time. Wierd how all the top guys have just dropped of from the top 10 without a drop in performance.Im sure its an error of somekind
Lord Flasheart
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No 1 and 3 are at least folowing their own trades at the moment.may explain the boost
Zulu are checking why this has happened
Zulu are checking why this has happened
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Pat494
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Pootums is back to numero uno !
Some internal glitch I guess unless they have altered the ranking system. There were murmurs on the web that it wasn't fair but that was a while ago.
A good reason why some have shot to the top only to crash and burn is that they were employing a martingale system. A sure way to failure.
Some internal glitch I guess unless they have altered the ranking system. There were murmurs on the web that it wasn't fair but that was a while ago.
A good reason why some have shot to the top only to crash and burn is that they were employing a martingale system. A sure way to failure.
The ZuluTrade site seems to have serious problems. Pootum's ROI (since inception) is -39008.34% ? And it's been negative for several days.
Lord Flasheart
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if you read the previous 20 posts you will see what weve been saying and how you may be able to make money on zulu.
Lord Flasheart
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try the top 30,its very dramatic,need a huge account to cover the positions. Next m month try reversing them. you will then need to work out a system, its hard to make money just following or reversing blindly
There may be terrible systems on ZuluTrade, but there may also be sound systems on ZuluTrade that simply get hit from time to time by max drawdowns and unrealistic subscribers bail because they have no fundamental understanding of the way most successful trading systems actually work.
The vast majority of winning trading systems are trend following systems. The weak point of trend following systems is temporary sideways chop that causes temporary drawdowns. Even some of the best systems in the world experience a maximum drawdown that is equal to, or greater than, the system's average annual return. These drawdowns typically happen at least once (but can also happen several times) within any given 5 year period. That means, if your system's annual ROI is projected at +50% you can expect a max drawdown of -50% or greater at any moment. So... if you are attempting to earn +300% following an aggressive trading system you can expect a max drawdown of -300% or greater and it can happen at any time. The fundamental issue is that even if subscribers can find a decent system they have ridiculously unrealistic expectations that cannot possibly be met and they are doomed to failure because they will bail during what might be a valid, temporary drawdown. They want a +300% return and a max drawdown of -25%. That is never going to happen long term. Never. Subscribers have no concept of what a realistic 'Gain-to-Pain ratio' might be. But taking contrary trades won't work either because some of the systems on social trading sites are legitimate trend following systems and you'll get killed trying to bet against them.
If you want to make money and survive max drawdowns, I would recommend looking for a system that does not attempt to earn more than maybe +50% per year and be prepared to endure a -50% or greater drawdown at any moment.
The vast majority of winning trading systems are trend following systems. The weak point of trend following systems is temporary sideways chop that causes temporary drawdowns. Even some of the best systems in the world experience a maximum drawdown that is equal to, or greater than, the system's average annual return. These drawdowns typically happen at least once (but can also happen several times) within any given 5 year period. That means, if your system's annual ROI is projected at +50% you can expect a max drawdown of -50% or greater at any moment. So... if you are attempting to earn +300% following an aggressive trading system you can expect a max drawdown of -300% or greater and it can happen at any time. The fundamental issue is that even if subscribers can find a decent system they have ridiculously unrealistic expectations that cannot possibly be met and they are doomed to failure because they will bail during what might be a valid, temporary drawdown. They want a +300% return and a max drawdown of -25%. That is never going to happen long term. Never. Subscribers have no concept of what a realistic 'Gain-to-Pain ratio' might be. But taking contrary trades won't work either because some of the systems on social trading sites are legitimate trend following systems and you'll get killed trying to bet against them.
If you want to make money and survive max drawdowns, I would recommend looking for a system that does not attempt to earn more than maybe +50% per year and be prepared to endure a -50% or greater drawdown at any moment.
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ZT revenues for signal providers
There's been a lot of speculation on how much ZT SPs are earning, and I'm not convinced that its a huge amount, but I thought I'd log my own findings here. This is not about the rights and wrongs of the signal providers trading methods, but just about the earnings.
I'm 7 weeks in, therefore still "invisible" in Europe until 12 weeks have elapsed. As of today (15/11/15) it looks like this:
Rank = approx 1900
Followers = 5 (only 2 of those are live accounts, 1 is my own)
Amount following = approx $700
Revenues owing = $3.22
So not very exciting so far! But I'll post here every now and again, we'll see what happens!
Cheers all
rog1111
There's been a lot of speculation on how much ZT SPs are earning, and I'm not convinced that its a huge amount, but I thought I'd log my own findings here. This is not about the rights and wrongs of the signal providers trading methods, but just about the earnings.
I'm 7 weeks in, therefore still "invisible" in Europe until 12 weeks have elapsed. As of today (15/11/15) it looks like this:
Rank = approx 1900
Followers = 5 (only 2 of those are live accounts, 1 is my own)
Amount following = approx $700
Revenues owing = $3.22
So not very exciting so far! But I'll post here every now and again, we'll see what happens!
Cheers all
rog1111
What is your trading name?
Are you taking many trades per day?
The $700 account could be just trading 10c trades so your return per pip will be proportionate.
You'll have to get some big accounts to follow you.
Lord Flasheart
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Guys
I've written many posts on Zulu about the traders. Read through. In simple terms most of the traders rely on averaging in, big stops for small profits etc. Write down the top 50 traders on 1st of the month and compare again in a months time.every single top trader has bust his account eventually, some after taking obver 1m in commissions. Thats not to say you cant make money following them as you can reverse the trades and use the many control methods zulu have to your advantage.
I've written many posts on Zulu about the traders. Read through. In simple terms most of the traders rely on averaging in, big stops for small profits etc. Write down the top 50 traders on 1st of the month and compare again in a months time.every single top trader has bust his account eventually, some after taking obver 1m in commissions. Thats not to say you cant make money following them as you can reverse the trades and use the many control methods zulu have to your advantage.
Hi Bill,
I'd prefer not to post my ZT name!
My live account is following with 0.01 lots per 1 lot I trade on ZT. The other live account has only just started following, so no revenue from that one yet. Each 0.01 lot trade equates to roughly $0.05 to $0.07 revenue, depending on the pair. There have been approx 60 trades so far.
I'm trying to figure out how well this thing scales up, assuming I can attract live followers. We'll see!
I'd prefer not to post my ZT name!
My live account is following with 0.01 lots per 1 lot I trade on ZT. The other live account has only just started following, so no revenue from that one yet. Each 0.01 lot trade equates to roughly $0.05 to $0.07 revenue, depending on the pair. There have been approx 60 trades so far.
I'm trying to figure out how well this thing scales up, assuming I can attract live followers. We'll see!
Hi Flash,
Generally I'd def agree with that, only a few SPs seem to have a sensible approach to it. One problem is comparing apples with apples, ZT ranking seems to reward extreme risk takers with a high pip count. One trade in exotics generates a huge number of pips versus my piddly EUR:GBP trades. But I'm going to follow through doing what I'm doing and see how it pans out!
Generally I'd def agree with that, only a few SPs seem to have a sensible approach to it. One problem is comparing apples with apples, ZT ranking seems to reward extreme risk takers with a high pip count. One trade in exotics generates a huge number of pips versus my piddly EUR:GBP trades. But I'm going to follow through doing what I'm doing and see how it pans out!
Ok Roger I found your zulu account.
A few points, if I may.
Had a quick look and I don't like the RR,
Many of your trades go negative for a lot more pips than your gain on close. Aren't you using a stop loss?
Many of your trades aren't for many pips and even though they are winners your followers will barely break even because of the high zulu spread/commissions.
I hope this helps.
alexaherself
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Exactly so - and good to see you posting, m'Lud.
Those top-ranked traders have selected their trading methods in accordance with their perception of the ranking techniques those sites use (especially Zulutrade), and those are somewhat "crooked parameters" for investors. They know that unless they're very highly ranked, they won't get (m)any "followers".
Zulutrade, in particular, rewards short-term, ultra-high-risk methods involving a huge amount of averaging down (i.e. adding to losing positions) and not closing trades with enormous running losses.
The rankings of traders at Zulutrade are almost terrifying. I last looked at Zulutrade's "performance table" a few months ago. At that time, the maximum drawdowns of their top-ranked five traders at the moment were (in this order) 35%, 52%, 48%, 85% and 108%! Also included in their "top ten" to follow were two traders with drawdowns of 2,000% and 4,000%!
If you input your own search parameters, using their search engine, to try to identify any traders who have been there for 6+ months, have real money accounts and maximum drawdowns under 15%, there's only one listed (and he's apparently done a grand total of 4 trades in over a year)!
It's very much "caveat emptor", and that's putting it mildly.
The people whose trades are available there are, for the most part, trying to make money by selling signals, rather than by trading. Many are using high-risk, often highly backfitted ("designed specifically to have back-tested well, typically at the cost of being unsound") methods which will eventually crash and burn, and the fact they've performed well (and apparently safely) over the previous 6 months doesn't in any way imply or infer that they'll continue to do so for the next 6 months (in fact, if anything, in that context, it probably rather implies the exact opposite).
Hi Bill,
I posted in order to log my experiences of what SPs can earn, not to get into the merits of anyones trading system
Regards
I posted in order to log my experiences of what SPs can earn, not to get into the merits of anyones trading system
Regards
