Who else attended the City Index seminar on 18 Aug 04?

Trader_Dave

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I attended last night and have a fair bit of opinion'ated feedback to provide others if interested..

I'll post shortly once I get 10 minutes free. Interested if any other T2W members attended last night also.

Trader_Dave
 
City Index have a good reputation generally so I think we'd all appreciate some unbiased (although your opinion of course) comment from someone who's actually attended one of their seminars.
 
As a relatively newbie to the world of spread betting, I'm more than happy to attend any seminars/courses and read any books that will prove beneficial to me; the fact the the Introduction to Spread Betting Seminar held by City Index was free made it a no brainer to attend. I'm also still deciding what Spread Betting company to use if I do infact decide to spread bet at all. I have used the City Index Simulator and to be fair, I was somewhat disappointed by its lack of features such as charting - I thought this would be a great opportunity to be able to openly ask questions with the CI staff.

Upon arrival I helped myself to a drink before being seated in a large seminar room. The room itself was divided into three sections with two large projectors arranged accordingly. I estimate that there would have been around 80-100 people attending, maybe less, possibly more.

I was provided the usual material you would expect at such a seminar including the CI books on spread betting and CFD's. I was also provided with a notepad, a pen, and the current edition of "Shares" magazine.

The presentation was performed by Tom Hougaard, the Bloomberg and CNBC commentator and chief market strategist for City Index...a confident and competent presenter to say the least. The information he provided was informative. Tom started with explaining exactly what and what not City Index is...

Then a definition of spread betting followed by what you can spreadbet in. Throughout the night Tom provided various examples of spread betting and the layout and explanation were very simple to follow. Tom continually raised the point that trading with City Index is the easy part... the hard part is infact deciding what to trade in.

Towards the end of the evening, Tom stated that anyone opening an account right there and then would be provided with a free £25 Vodafone bet (the equivalent of 2500 Vodafone Shares).
The seminar had obviously worked as the amount of people madly filling in their application forms really surprised me. I had no intentions of joining as I would like to learn more about the other players (i.e. Finspread, CMC, ect).

There was one point throughout the seminar that I thought was wrong (if not wrong, maybe ethically incorrect). At the start of the evening Tom emphasised how how City Index was the leading spread betting firm for the last 2 years running (or something to that extent)...that's great. However, at the same time people were filling out their application forms, Tom stated that in the middle of "Shares" magazine was a subscriber review. The sort of thing that comes annually in every type of magazine - basically asking what company you feel delivers the best service in certain fields.

Tom stated that if you were to also fill out the award review and write in that City Index was your favourite Spread Betting company, he would place them into a box and randomly draw one. The lucky person who's award review would be pulled out would have £500 placed in to their CI account.

Suddenly I'm wanting to know what Tom meant at the start of the evening when he stated that CI was the leading Spread Betting firm. If it's based on the amount of people recommend CI through Shares magazine, it's easy to see why. To me, they were buying votes...something I don't agree with...and I wonder how many other forms are filled out with their other various seminars. Personally, there was no way someone was going to buy my vote with the chance of winning a £500 account. Again, most of the people attending started looking for "their" award review form.

Whilst people were filling out their application forms I had the opportunity to ask a few questions with a CI staff member. I asked if they provided any charting within the CI platform. The answer was quite vague...he stated that whilst they do, he was unable to tell me exactly what markets they provide charting in and whether they chart daily, or intra-day. I asked if we were going to see the charting in action, however he stated that it's something that City Index hold close and don't want "non-account holders" to really see (what ever that means). He did say however I am more than welcome to visit their Moorgate office and a rep could show it to me there. I was somewhat disappointed so I thought who better to ask the same question then Tom...he is the CI chief market strategist. Unfortunately the response was very much the same.
Tom provided some live trades to prove just how easy the CI platform is. Ironically, he was using a third party charting package provided by e-signal. This to me, IMO, obviously highlights that maybe their charting package included in the CI platform is weak.

I left the evening happy and satisfied that I attended. I was satisfied with the content provided however felt a little unsure about parting with my money on the fact that no one could show me the charting package....and the way that Tom had bought votes didn't really take my fancy either. Saying that though, I hold City Index quite high and I believe they are a reputable firm.

What also amazed me throughout the night was the number of people who I had met who were diving in head first...with no research, no nothing. I also met some people already trading with CI and when I asked if they used any TA to decide what and when to trade, they stated that they don't, as charts only tell you what has happened in the past. I asked how do they decide on what to trade and when to buy/sell, and their response was they "just get a feel" of what's going on.

Going to the seminar actually improved my confidence even though I haven't even traded yet. Surely if I'm willing to learn and inspect all the options prior to landing my first trade, I will be in a better position....won't I? I'm not expecting to make money initially and I'm more than allowing a substantial loss however I (again, IMO) believe this is a better perspective than thinking I can trade profitably simply by opening an account and gaining a free £25 bet on Vodafone.

It would be interesting to know who much of City Index's revenue comes simply from one time account openers who then lose there initial opening fund, not ever to deposit more. The "Introduction" seminars are held quite regularly so surely CI must make "some" revenue this way?

For any T2W members who are staff of CI or trading with CI, please do not take this post as a criticism against City Index...This is only MY opinion. I thought others may find it useful on what I attended last night...I'm sure there were many people confident in City Index and this was plain to see with the percentage of people opening accounts. I myself may actually open an account with City Index, however I will not do so until I know all my options, investigate all the other Spread Betting Co's, and decide whether to spread bet at all.

Trader_Dave
 
excellent post Dave. well constructed and versed. :)

Tom actually used to post on here as Sunseeker.

he is also a regular on tacticaltrader.com


he may have been towing the company line when giving this presentation. his personal thoughts may be quite different, and he may be able to offer you those if you PM him.


hope this helps,

FC
 
Fettered Chinos: Well said I couldnot have put it any better.
Tom is a Gentleman through and through and IF you ask him anything no matter how trivial he always goes beyond call and duty to help you.There is not many like him on this planet!!!!
rgds
zarif
 
A very interesting review Trader Dave

I have never been to one of these seminars so your revelations on how they are trying to sway the shares magazine readers poll certainly adds a new dimention.

For your information the charting they have is provided by Money AM and is very basic, also if you do intend to go the spreadbetter route may I suggest that you open an account with more than one company.
This will provide you with a way of getting the best price available ( not all spreadbet quotes are the same for any given time of day ).
The oppotunity to Arb spreadbetters ( it is rare but it can be done).
A good back up if one platform goes down at peak periods.
 
so out of interest who provides the best charting package with the SB companies. I have been using IG for years now - ok they dont have the best spreads in the markets (although this is not always true - I recently placed a trade on BGY and CS - who are supposed to be the tightest - couldnt beat IGs OFFER price at that time) .

IG use a package from it-finance.com - its their 15min delayed package - to be honest I am pretty happy with it but interested to hear other opinions..

Ciao
 
Quote 'This to me, IMO, obviously highlights that maybe their charting package included in the CI platform is weak.'

Many traders using this site use third party charting such as e-signal. Basically it has more
features for the professional..

Quote 'What also amazed me throughout the night was the number of people who I had met who were diving in head first...
It would be interesting to know who much of City Index's revenue comes simply from one time account openers who then lose there initial opening fund, '

City Index aren't going to turn anyone away from opening an account. Many people will dive in and lose.. others will learn from sites like this and have better chance of profits.. Apparently 90% or so of spreadbetters lose money.. I would imagine, many of those at your seminar will join that statistic.
 
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For your information the charting they have is provided by Money AM and is very basic, also if you do intend to go the spreadbetter route may I suggest that you open an account with more than one company.

Thanks for the Info dc2000 - is I register with MoneyAM.com can I view the charts for free and get an idea of what City Index use? Maybe basic is good to start with? Any tips? Also, point taken with opening more than one account...

I used the free deal4free account and I thought that their platform was pretty cool for someone like myself starting up. Their spreadsheet was okay I guess..


City Index aren't going to turn anyone away from opening an account. Many people will dive in and lose.. others will learn from sites like this and have better chance of profits.. Apparently 90% or so of spreadbetters lose money.. I would imagine, many of those at your seminar will join that statistic.

Saint - Of course they wont turn away new account openings, however I just thought it would be interesting to know what percentage of CI's revenue comes from these "initial-deposit-one-time-account holders". And if it's those 90% that fail in spreadbetting, suddenly that other 10% is looking so much better for me.

Trader_Dave
 
City Index - definitely the best free seminars - great open bar policy, nice comfy chairs and that £25 free bet (I couldn't even win then!). So good I went twice (yes, I did get a couple of looks from the staff). Tom's great, knows his stuff and full of enthusiasm but can get a bit off-beat at times ("watch out for Jupiter's 84-tear cycle" etc). The prize draw is new, so wonder why they feel the need to do that?!

Planning to go again as soon as my false moustache and wig come through.

Finspreads are the best if you actually want to learn something, and are happy with just tea and biscuits. Catch one of Sandy Jadeja's free sessions and you'll come away with a trading strategy, which has the potential to work (although you do need experience and still have to learn, patience, discipline etc etc)

CMC - weak and woolly sessions, but they have the best totty, and the best spreads.

Haven't found one with a decent charting package, and wouldn't want to chart their prices anyway as they aren't real. Not investing in a decent chart and data feed package is a false economy, a bit like learning only from free seminars (doh!).
 
Trader Dave

Excellent review mate. I use Finspreads and just recently, past week or so they have improved their charts massively which are in line with their prices and are also live tick by tick. Also included in their package is a market heap map, real time news, director dealings and economic calendar.

Go take a look.
All the best

Pitbull
 
Finspreads are the best if you actually want to learn something, and are happy with just tea and biscuits. Catch one of Sandy Jadeja's free sessions and you'll come away with a trading strategy, which has the potential to work (although you do need experience and still have to learn, patience, discipline etc etc)

Yes, I plan to go the Finspread course as well...can you tell me whether their 8 week "academy" program included when you join is any good and well structured?

Haven't found one with a decent charting package, and wouldn't want to chart their prices anyway as they aren't real. Not investing in a decent chart and data feed package is a false economy, a bit like learning only from free seminars (doh!).

How do you trade without charts or historical data? Are you more of a trader who reads news and would trade individual stocks based on what you read/research as opposed to how they have previously "plotted"?

Excellent review mate. I use Finspreads and just recently, past week or so they have improved their charts massively which are in line with their prices and are also live tick by tick. Also included in their package is a market heap map, real time news, director dealings and economic calendar.

Thanks PitBull...can you provide any advice about their 8 week training program that you receive when you join? Thanks.

Trader_Dave
 
Trader Dave,

Excellent post.

I wonder if the publishers of Shares Magazine are aware of City Index's practice of "rigging" votes.

I would call upon the publishers to disallow any votes they receive for City Index.

Just as Olympic athletes are disqualified for doping, so should all votes for CI for "fixing".

Completely discredits any of Share Magazine's awards if this is allowed to carry on.

Other than that, I use CI and find them to be very good.

A shame then that they should feel the need to stoop so low.
 
Trader Dave

The 8 week academy is where you can bet at 1p a point to get to learn the ropes, but it is pretty useless as it doesn't teach you discipline, but useful for trying out your strategy. Dont count the pennies, count the points!! You also, get every week a leaflet on various aspects of spreadbetting, i.e. what markets to trade, how to limit your losses through stop losses, but it is all pretty basic stuff.

They also hold a free seminar with Sandy, but this is really a plug for his course, as he gives you snippets from his full price course, all on Fib ratios. See the threads on Sandys course on here and read the reviews on his seminar. By the way, the most useful review of his course is the last one by Faris as he has given it time before he posted his review to see whether the Fib strategy is any good.

All the best
Pitbull
 
Blairlogie said:
I wonder if the publishers of Shares Magazine are aware of City Index's practice of "rigging" votes.

I would call upon the publishers to disallow any votes they receive for City Index.

Just as Olympic athletes are disqualified for doping, so should all votes for CI for "fixing".

Completely discredits any of Share Magazine's awards if this is allowed to carry on.

Surely you're not suggesting that magazine awards are NOT fixed? Goodness gracious me, where did you get that silly notion from? LOL

ALL magazine awards are fixed to some extent. Trust me, I used to be a fixer!

The problem with magazine awards is that very few people will enter them without an incentive. So, if a company is prepared to chivvy along the entries, then so be it. Nobody cares who wins, so it's the company with the best marketing/PR which wins. The magazine is only doing it to get a bit of PR for themselves anyway. The whole thing's a game, so if you know how to play the game, you win. And you get a cupboard full of nice shiny trophies which always puts a smile on the Chairman's face.

Some magazine awards are based solely on how good a paying advertiser is - the more they spend, the more awards they are nominated for. Funny that.

And now you and I have given the idea to all the other SB companies of how to 'win' the Shares Magazine awards, so we can all look forward to a 'war for votes' being carried out. LOL
 
Send me a cheque for £500 and T2W could easily be best financial website!

(It's OK......I still think its the best website, even without the £500)
 
I think you're getting your awards mixed up - £500 is for the best SB company. Best financial website is £5. Do you want your fiver in a white or brown envelope? LOL
 
Surely you're not suggesting that magazine awards are NOT fixed? Goodness gracious me, where did you get that silly notion from? LOL

ALL magazine awards are fixed to some extent. Trust me, I used to be a fixer!

Skimbleshanks - Yes I agree, I'm sure that this goes on, however the fact that City Index were prepared to it to the people they were introducing themselves to and trying to win them over....it just left a bad taste in my mouth and all Tom's statements on "award-winning" went straight out the window and lost all credibility (in my mind anyway).

Pitbull - thanks for you response.

Trader_Dave
 
Skimbleshanks said:
I think you're getting your awards mixed up - £500 is for the best SB company. Best financial website is £5. Do you want your fiver in a white or brown envelope? LOL

£5 sounds fine.

Just put it inside a £500 Louis Vuiton bag though.
 
PitBull said:
Trader Dave

The 8 week academy is where you can bet at 1p a point to get to learn the ropes, but it is pretty useless as it doesn't teach you discipline, but useful for trying out your strategy. Dont count the pennies, count the points!! You also, get every week a leaflet on various aspects of spreadbetting, i.e. what markets to trade, how to limit your losses through stop losses, but it is all pretty basic stuff.
At 1p a point you can't set a stop loss :( You need a stake of 50p/point or more to set a stop loss.

Regards
 
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