K
kenobi
wasp
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I think you should add another option to the vote.......
The ability to consistantly profit from the market regardless of how you arrive at said profits.
What does it matter if you use price alone or patterns in the price and volume or a ma cross or a macd or flipping a coin or the phase of the moon. If you consistantly profit from the markets you have an edge. Otherwise you wouldn't be consistantly profiting from the markets.
Luck evens out in the end. In the poker world you'd be the laughing stock of the table if you thought the guy winning all the money night after night after night for years on end was just on a "lucky streak". If you suggested that the way he plays may stop working suddenly so therefore he shouldn't think he has an edge in poker you'd again be laughed out of the casino.
Yet that attitude seems to prevail in trading. "Oh no, you use a ma cross to pick entries, better watch out, eventually you are going to wipe out and loose all your money." "What you've been profiting from it for 20 years? Doesn't matter, it will stop working eventually so you don't have an edge"
It's all this "only if you trade the way I do can you possibly have an edge" bs attitude that makes defining an edge seem so hard. Frankly it is usually the proponents of the no indicators club that exhibit that attitude.
So long as you are consistantly profiting from the market what the heck does it matter how you define "an edge"?
Cheers,
PKFFW
The ability to consistantly profit from the market regardless of how you arrive at said profits.
What does it matter if you use price alone or patterns in the price and volume or a ma cross or a macd or flipping a coin or the phase of the moon. If you consistantly profit from the markets you have an edge. Otherwise you wouldn't be consistantly profiting from the markets.
Luck evens out in the end. In the poker world you'd be the laughing stock of the table if you thought the guy winning all the money night after night after night for years on end was just on a "lucky streak". If you suggested that the way he plays may stop working suddenly so therefore he shouldn't think he has an edge in poker you'd again be laughed out of the casino.
Yet that attitude seems to prevail in trading. "Oh no, you use a ma cross to pick entries, better watch out, eventually you are going to wipe out and loose all your money." "What you've been profiting from it for 20 years? Doesn't matter, it will stop working eventually so you don't have an edge"
It's all this "only if you trade the way I do can you possibly have an edge" bs attitude that makes defining an edge seem so hard. Frankly it is usually the proponents of the no indicators club that exhibit that attitude.
So long as you are consistantly profiting from the market what the heck does it matter how you define "an edge"?
Cheers,
PKFFW
nine
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Thats a hard one wasp. See my other post to understand how hard - and how big.
I voted for option 3 because that's the complete story. But on a today basis it's option 1 because I have my edges written down (setup, trigger, entry, stops, management). In the long run, though, option 3 is what lets me adapt to changes in my chosen markets and timeframes.
Never forget though that in the long run we are all dead.
I voted for option 3 because that's the complete story. But on a today basis it's option 1 because I have my edges written down (setup, trigger, entry, stops, management). In the long run, though, option 3 is what lets me adapt to changes in my chosen markets and timeframes.
Never forget though that in the long run we are all dead.
Crap Buddist
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Thought for the day ? We are immortal.......
Exempt from oblivion,thermodynamics 1,how hard can we party now ?
Dead ? non. tis only the human identity that ceases to be ? OK dead then. Thats cool.:idea::innocent:-0
Exempt from oblivion,thermodynamics 1,how hard can we party now ?
Dead ? non.
tis only the human identity that ceases to be ? OK dead then. Thats cool.:idea::innocent:-0
wasp
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Wouldn't really answer my question though would it?! Makes membership in a discussion board pretty pointless too ay.
Whether I am in agreement or not, this has nothing to do with the thread.
No point in the 7 word question did I even mention this was the only way!
What is the point of a discussion board if no one wants to discuss anything...
You need to calm down and stop jumping in on the defensive PKFFW.
This thread was to answer a question by those with a perceived edge and how they define it. If you want a thread defending other methods and/or arguing over which is better, or neither as your point may be, open one.
What is an edge?
What, like a privvet edge? It's a plant/bush thing innit?Sorry Wasp, couldn't help my stupid self.
wasp
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What is an edge?
Sorry Wasp, couldn't help my stupid self.
For a cockney, yes, its one of those things round your 'ouse.... an 'edge guv'nor....
Cor blimey!
JTrader
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For me a permanent edge has to meet at least 2 criteria.
While it primarily may make its profit from one market condition - i.e. trend. It should avoid maximum losses when the market is experiencing adverse conditions i.e. consolidation.
Ideally, this should also mean that during non-favourable conditions, the strategy keeps you out of the market until conditions improve again.
How this is all achieved though, is a seperate issue altogether...
If a strat for example, relies entirely on trend/swings to make its profit, and at all other times, the max. SL is likely to be hit, then this is risky & limited IMO, as its relying on the occurence of one thing - trend - to make it work, and when trend does not occur its racking up losses.
A defensive edge, would at least help preserve capital, which has to be the primary requirement anyway, although at times, this may result in you missing out on the big winner/a large part of the big winner.
While it primarily may make its profit from one market condition - i.e. trend. It should avoid maximum losses when the market is experiencing adverse conditions i.e. consolidation.
Ideally, this should also mean that during non-favourable conditions, the strategy keeps you out of the market until conditions improve again.
How this is all achieved though, is a seperate issue altogether...
If a strat for example, relies entirely on trend/swings to make its profit, and at all other times, the max. SL is likely to be hit, then this is risky & limited IMO, as its relying on the occurence of one thing - trend - to make it work, and when trend does not occur its racking up losses.
A defensive edge, would at least help preserve capital, which has to be the primary requirement anyway, although at times, this may result in you missing out on the big winner/a large part of the big winner.
Firstly, let me assure you I was not meaning to have a go at your or your thread. Perhaps I came on a little too strong and for that I apologise.
Having said that.........
The opinion poll question is "What do you perceive as an edge?" It then lists three very definitive and precise definitions of an edge without including what could arguably be the simplest and also broadest definition.
These are two different questions and that is where my obvious confusion came about. The thread seems to be about one thing and the poll attached seems to be about another thing. The thread seeming to be about defining an edge and the poll seeming to be about choosing which out of 3 listed options the voter perceives as an edge.
Personally I think the part quoted does have to do with the thread. I agree it has nothing to do with the poll attached to the thread.
Again I would say the thread title of "What is an edge?" is a little ambiguous then, since the opinion poll question is specifically about those three options listed and not about what an edge is in general.
I am also not defensive as it matters none at all if how I define an edge is the same as how you define it. Differences of opinion are what make the world an interesting place.
The title of the thread is "What is an edge?"
Your initial posts says "What is an edge? Seems a definition is hard to find"
This led me to believe that the thread was about defining "an edge".
I did not realise the poll was about something else altogether. That being simply about choosing which of the three listed options I would consider to be an edge.
For the record I believe any of the three could be perceived as an edge.
Cheers,
PKFFW
Having said that.........
The thread title is "What is an edge?"
The opinion poll question is "What do you perceive as an edge?" It then lists three very definitive and precise definitions of an edge without including what could arguably be the simplest and also broadest definition.
These are two different questions and that is where my obvious confusion came about. The thread seems to be about one thing and the poll attached seems to be about another thing. The thread seeming to be about defining an edge and the poll seeming to be about choosing which out of 3 listed options the voter perceives as an edge.
Again my apologies. I thought the thread was about what the definition of an edge is rather than what constitutes the specifics of said edge, be they price patterns or whatever.wasp said:
Personally I think the part quoted does have to do with the thread. I agree it has nothing to do with the poll attached to the thread.
No you did not.wasp said:
Again I would say the thread title of "What is an edge?" is a little ambiguous then, since the opinion poll question is specifically about those three options listed and not about what an edge is in general.
I'm all for discussing........that's why I suggested another option in the poll and gave my reasons for why I thought it would be a good inclusion. Of course that was before I realised the poll was about a different question to the one posed in the thread title.wasp said:
To need to calm down I would first need to be worked up. I assure you I am not. Once again I apologise for seeming to come on a little too strong but that was not from being worked up.wasp said:
I am also not defensive as it matters none at all if how I define an edge is the same as how you define it. Differences of opinion are what make the world an interesting place.
My point was not to defend other methods or to argue over which is better. My point was that the 3 options listed in the opinion poll are only three possible definitions of an edge. Further to that the 3 options do not include what, to me at least, seems the simplest and broadest definition of "an edge."wasp said:
The title of the thread is "What is an edge?"
Your initial posts says "What is an edge? Seems a definition is hard to find"
This led me to believe that the thread was about defining "an edge".
I did not realise the poll was about something else altogether. That being simply about choosing which of the three listed options I would consider to be an edge.
For the record I believe any of the three could be perceived as an edge.
Cheers,
PKFFW
wasp
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My apologies too PKFFW, I should have made my intention clearer for the poll. It was carried over from my other 'edge' thread and was intended purely for the difference between the price based edge discussion there.
Granted, if one can make returns consistently from another form, then happy days and this would require a separate thread and poll as this was just meant for the continuation from the other thread. I should have made that clearer.
Thanks for your answer BTW.
Cheers
firewalker99
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Here's one, from Douglas:
"An edge is nothing more than an indication of a higher probability of one thing happening over another."
firewalker99
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Here's another one, something I read on the web somewhere some time ago:
"An edge is nothing more than a higher probability of making profits in excess of the market averages than not making profits at all or, at least in excess of the market averages.
The edge comprises signals and rules that determine when to buy and sell and how much portfolio capital to commit to each trade and to the market according to the edge's risk management signals and rules. "
"An edge is nothing more than a higher probability of making profits in excess of the market averages than not making profits at all or, at least in excess of the market averages.
The edge comprises signals and rules that determine when to buy and sell and how much portfolio capital to commit to each trade and to the market according to the edge's risk management signals and rules. "
firewalker99
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look at the bottom of this thread, you will find many topics on it
touche
Be careful wasp! before you know it, some mpxxxx guy will accuse you of plagiarism for starting a thread on something that's already been discussed elsewhere!
FXSCALPER2
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That is such a useless and inane definition; Pathetic even. Indiviudal traders have an edge: there is no such thing as the probabaility of one thing happening over another in trading. There is only the ability of a trader to make a profit, or not.
Wasp,
An edge in trading is not something we can explain effectively. It can only be shown.
wasp
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So when you press buy or sell, do you not think you have more than 50% chance of success?
Language barriers killed the bulletin board (to the tune of the Buggles!)
new_trader
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Edge: A margin of superiority; an advantage: a slight edge over the opposition.
I'm sticking with the standard dictionary definition. I have no imagination.
I'm sticking with the standard dictionary definition. I have no imagination.
firewalker99
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So when you're talking about having an edge, the edge casinos have is not based on the fact that over the long run the odds are in their favour then? And if the casino has a roulette table, there are no statistical probabilities in this game?
Or is that a different type of edge perhaps?
[Btw, kenobi, do you also think for your own, or do you just use strategically placed reps?]
