What Hours Do You Keep ?

[nkruger]

In an attempt to cut down on my hours in front of the screen(s), I would like to hear from other members, detailing their most productive (in their opinion) hours trading - whatever indices, forex pairs etc are traded

I have been trading full time for only 6 months or so, (footy/cable mostly) and I usually start around 7.30am and pack up wearily between 6-7pm, with a break for lunch/exercise around 1pm (usually just exercise) Obviously, concentration is an issue when spending so much time looking at the charts, so less hours will probably mean better productivity ??

What do y'all think ?







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[shadowninja]

I found for scalping, most of my profitable trades were in the morning, 9am, up to around 2pm. Look at your diary/logs.

 

[zigglewigler]

When I started I would spend 18 hours per day including a Saturday for more analysis(this is sounding like a Python sketch now), after 9 months I was exhausted.

For a few years after, 8 to 12 hours per day with as little thinking about work during weekends.

When I moved to California I decided I didn't want to do the 6:30 am start for the NY markets, so start around 9ish during the NY lunch hour, finishing by 1pm.

The best bloody thing I ever did!

My performance went up. There's enough action in the limited hours to make money, with less hours of concentration to grind you down.

It really becomes about performance rather than coverage. In the early days you think if you spend enough time trading something is bound to come along, it's just a matter of waiting. If you limit your hours you tend to go out and grab what is there. It will force you to tighten your system and trade more positively. I felt instantly much more in charge of my trading, rather than feeling like I was always chasing the market.

Plenty of traders trade just the open or closing hour, take a couple of points, with enough leverage, that's a good living.

I call it 'intelligently lazy'.

 

[damianoakley]

WOW - guys, there's some seriously gruelling hours being discussed here.

Personally, I could not imagine looking at the markets for 12 hours a day.....for me that's like having a full-time job all over again, except it would be like being a slave to the markets instead of a boss.

The main reason I trade is to gain personal freedom and to escape the confines of a 9-5.....I really would go mad if I traded for the long hours you guys are talking about!

Each to their own I suppose - If it works for you then good luck...!


Thanks

Damian

 

[zigglewigler]

Yes, slave, that's how it felt for around five years. I used to actually dream charts. All those pretty candles.

Now that I've got it down to 4 hours per day, next step will be down to 4 days per week.

Lazy afternoons and long weekends in the sun.

I feel so guilty.

 

[shadowninja]

The main reason I trade is to gain personal freedom and to escape the confines of a 9-5.....I really would go mad if I traded for the long hours you guys are talking about!

Absolutely. That is why I mainly swing when I am actually at home all day. I prefer to read, play the piano, practice my martial arts, do some fitness training etc. Once I get round to upgrading my laptop (to one with wifi!), I will probably spend many days climbing at a local climbing wall (they have free wifi). My plan is to become more and more lazy. Maximise earnings, minimise time spent working. As my grandfather said, work smarter, not harder.

 

[trader_dante]

Absolutely. That is why I mainly swing when I am actually at home all day. I prefer to read, play the piano, practice my martial arts, do some fitness training etc. Once I get round to upgrading my laptop (to one with wifi!), I will probably spend many days climbing at a local climbing wall (they have free wifi). My plan is to become more and more lazy. Maximise earnings, minimise time spent working. As my grandfather said, work smarter, not harder.

Excellent post.

Spot on. Work smart, not hard.

I cover 17 hours of market action per day but spend 5 minutes an hour working out whether I want to take a setup and an extra 20 at the end of the day seeing if there are any daily setups.

Thats around 1 hour and 45 minutes "work" per day.

Of course I spend time reading about the markets and writing my thread, talking to other trader, thinking about market related issues but essentially time actually trading is limited and yet still makes excellent returns.

 

[shadowninja]

I think it was Mark Douglas who described the following:
People are taught to think that if you work hard you get paid well. This means that if one works 18 hours a day, one earns more than if one works only 6 hours a day. Now in the normal world of employment, this is true. In trading, as we know, hundreds and thousands can be earnt in the blink of an eye. The problem we have is that subconciously we may feel that it is wrong to earn so much money in so little time, and therefore we do not deserve the money, and thus give it all back!

Whether it is true or not, it is certainly something to think about.

I often tell people that I am inherently lazy (even told a boss that once) but this means I am always looking for ways of doing things more efficiently and with less effort, whether it's doing something in a different way or getting it processed automatically by a PC (I recall noticing a secretary happily and ignorantly writing identical letters to a hundred or so customers; got irritated by it and taught her how to mail merge; she was pleased that I taught her as she had to do this thing every month or so). And this laziness means that I am always looking at ways of earning more money for less effort. Now whenever I tell people this, they always laugh and say, "Yeah, me, too!" or "Aren't we all!" except when I ask them how they earn money, they all work 9am to 5.30pm jobs, paid standard annual salary, and rather than leave for a better job, just resolve to complaining about how much work they have, the reality being that they work 8am til 7pm or something similarly ridiculous.

I'm rambling a bit, but it's food for thought.

 

[nkruger]

Hey Chaps....

All really good replies - thanks chaps.

I suppose I always knew that the old adage "Work smarter, not harder" has some truth in its foundation, and trading is an ideal job to put that into practice relatively easily, we're our own bosses ( I know that 'cause my Mrs told me) and we can change our MO of working very easily as opposed to someone in the 9-5 grind who will probaly have to get any change ok'd by somebody higher up the greasy pole.

Keep 'em coming chaps.....







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[Paul71]

I think it was Mark Douglas who described the following:
People are taught to think that if you work hard you get paid well.




Remedial folks, need remedial compensation!

"...worked all his/her life, they have..."

Oooh! Hard workers, eh! Do i need to look up to these people?

 

[lurkerlurker]

The longest days outside of Air Traffic Control / Medicine?

WOW - guys, there's some seriously gruelling hours being discussed here.

Personally, I could not imagine looking at the markets for 12 hours a day.....for me that's like having a full-time job all over again, except it would be like being a slave to the markets instead of a boss.

The main reason I trade is to gain personal freedom and to escape the confines of a 9-5.....I really would go mad if I traded for the long hours you guys are talking about!

Each to their own I suppose - If it works for you then good luck...!


Thanks

Damian

When I traded FT this year, I would usually get up at 6:30, and be looking at charts and news feeds before the 7am European open. I'd do some more prep work until 8 and then I'd trade the FTSE until 4:30. I'd do some review until 6. This was for the first month. Then I started trading the Dow from 3pm on, so I didn't usually finish until 9PM. More trades, more price action = longer review time. I'd hit bed by 11, ready to be up at 7 the next day. This went on for another month or so, until I dropped the FTSE. Then I'd be up early, but get some breakfast and exercise, and start watching the euro markets and FX from 9 on, while also doing prep for the Dow session. This went on for another few months. In short, I spent an average of 13 hours a day in front of the screens for months on end, and most of my weekends reading books and T2W. I'm still not consistent almost a year on (although I have made a profit). This job requires dedication and hard work. It isn't easy. It isn't about the work life balance until you have plenty of experience, have gone through the threshold of consistency, and compounded your money.

I no longer trade full time, but I still spend more time looking at setups, price action (or just prices), T2W, reading, etc than I ought to. I could also just watch the markets a few hours a day and place trades, but I don't feel I am ready for that yet. I've recently worked on implementing (with some coding help) a signal alert service which I now check once per hour so I don't have to check 30 odd charts, but if the dumb computer sees something that looks like a setup, I still spend at last 5 minutes on the charts seeing if it is something I should take, a few minutes to place the order, and then time managing the trade.

Just some food for thought. TD of the excellent "Making Money Trading" thread has just left work to trade FT, and I'm pretty sure he'll keep the same hours I did!

Traders who work for banks or prop firms also knock their pan in. It is very demanding being aware of the markets most of the day. Some folk don't have time for sleep. Home traders can choose their own hours, but once again reward is fairly proportionate to effort when you are starting out, especially acquiring knowledge of the markets, instinct, and developing an edge.

 

[damianoakley]

Hi Lurker,

I have to admire anyone who puts the hours into their trading as you describe above.

However, I believe that it is a common misconception that in order to trade for a living, your only option is to Day Trade for 8+ hours every day.

I trade full-time as my main source of income, but trading FULL-TIME doesn't mean you have to trade ALL the time.

Anyone who can trade for the hours you describe genuinely has my full respect, because I just could not live my life like that. It is quite feasible to run a profitable trading business by keeping a much healthier distance from the markets each day.


Thanks

Damian

 

[lurkerlurker]

Hi Lurker,

I have to admire anyone who puts the hours into their trading as you describe above.

However, I believe that it is a common misconception that in order to trade for a living, your only option is to Day Trade for 8+ hours every day.

I trade full-time as my main source of income, but trading FULL-TIME doesn't mean you have to trade ALL the time.

Anyone who can trade for the hours you describe genuinely has my full respect, because I just could not live my life like that. It is quite feasible to run a profitable trading business by keeping a much healthier distance from the markets each day.


Thanks

Damian

Hi. I don't dispute that this is possible. I was merely making the point that initially it takes a lot of time. I am spending much less time with the markets recently, since I switched to trading reversal bars on forex. I am using daily and and hourly bars for my setups, and only spending a few hours a day checking for setups and executing trades.

 

[damianoakley]

Hi Lurker,

I agree - it's like with any job or business. When you first start, you spend your time doing everything by the book and putting long hours in.

After a while though, as you become more experienced, you learn what corners you can cut safely to achieve the same results in half the time.


Thanks

Damian

 

[wanttotradewell]

When i first started trading, i found i was watching it from market open at 8 until it closed, unless i had to go out. It was the summer and i was on my summer vacation from uni, the only commitments i had were seeing my daughter a few days a week and a part time job. I would spend all my free time trying to trade or reading about trading.

As it happens, i now only have time to trade a few hours in the morning, on my lunch break or i will miss the odd lecture if i am going to catch an announcement (i hope my lack of attendance of a lecutre on the 1st friday of every month lol)

I do wonder though, if it was being forced into trading less hours that has helped me force myself to try to be more carefull and get more out of trading? ...i am now a few weeks without ending the week on a loss...compared to many weeks of losses. Although, its is possible i have just had a few lucky weeks lol (though i hope the work i have been putting in to refining my system has not all been in vain )

 

[wanttotradewell]

that should be ' i hope my lack of appearance of lectures the first friday of every month does not go un-noticed'....i think the silly typing mistakes is a sign i need to be off to bed lol

 

[lurkerlurker]

that should be ' i hope my lack of appearance of lectures the first friday of every month does not go un-noticed'....i think the silly typing mistakes is a sign i need to be off to bed lol

Ahh, a news trader with 1PM lectures! Just be careful punting over the payrolls - it can turn against you in the blink of an eye.

 

[arabianights]

7 am - 9:30 am and 2pm - 4pm, although if a figure is coming out or a speech is expected I'll be paying attention then too.

 

[nkruger]

**UPDATE**
Now work 8:00am to around 12:30 and afternoons relaxing and/or reading, testing etc.

Much better work/life balance.....

 

[nine]

Last year: 11:45 to 14:30 and 16:30 to 18:00 to trade HSI (4hrs 15m)

Then changed markets (SPI, STW, SGXNK, EUR.JPY but reduced to SPI and STW)
Was 12:30 to 15:30. (3 hrs)

This week changed to 9:45 to 12:30 post DST (2hrs 45m)
Get the opening and first two hours of the two markets.