Wallstreet1928 and his new scheme -deleted

[pboyles]

And in the time it took to write that another one appears.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex-strategies-systems/155346-jforexrobot-com.html

 

[The Leopard]

Possibly. That is your perception. On the other hand, people may perceive him as a dick with nothing better to do OR as a guy with an axe to grind OR as a teenager with a free third hand.

Possibly. There are a lot of very stupid people out there, as evidenced by the amount of vendorscum in business.

I totally agree - if that is his intent, then it is indeed an honourable one. Still, if he intends to succeed, then he must sell his message to the audience in a believable manner. If not - people may perceive that he merely has an axe to grind.

He presents masses of evidence which many people simply ignore. There's not much else he can do because many people are determined to ignore both evidence and logic. Still, I have seen a great many people thank him for opening their eyes and preventing them from wasting their money.

Now - you could argue that he just puts information out there and doesn't worry about people's perceptions. If this is the case, he will be quite unsuccessful. the people he 'battles' with will use every trick in the book and if PB does't attack properly, what good is he?

He helps some people. The fact that some people prefer to chase silly dreams does not mean he's doing no good.

This is your perception - how do you back this up? How have you personally quantified how 'target rich' this environment is?

It is also the perception of a notorious vendor. Leaving that aside, I have lost count of the number of chumps I have seen on this site falling for the lies of vendorscum. And of course, it is consciously aimed at noobies, who in this business are for the most part utter idiots.

Why would so many vendorscum target this site so relentlessly if they didn't think it a fertile hunting ground for idiots?

 

[The Leopard]

And in the time it took to write that another one appears.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex-strategies-systems/155346-jforexrobot-com.html

 

[DionysusToast]

I think it is inevitable that you will get banned, a lot of my posts get deleted just because I disagree with a vendor.

Your posts got deleted because you keep going off topic. You have a bit of a boner for me & you can't see the woods for the trees you planted in your head.

You are unable to understand my posts because of your presumptions. I will present my argument once more.

1 - Charts are NOT the market
2 - your perception is that I say this to point people towards order flow
3 - you have missed the central point, that understanding markets must come before analysing charts. If you try to develop a technique based on charts as opposed to understanding the markets- you will fail. If you understand markets and then read charts on that basis - different matter.
4 - you have pretty much ignored all chart analysis I do on this thread : http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...-500-other-indexes-intraday-plus-chat-56.html - As such your perception that I bang on about idiotic TA to promote my tools is rather silly, I show quite clearly how I think charts should be viewed - with ZERO mention of the flow - unlike yourself who says nothing about trading at all.

You bang the same drum, every time I post. You can't see merit in what I post but you also cannot argue against the points I make. You resort to unsubstantiated accusations and your posts get deleted.

Still, I don't expect to change your perception and I certainly don't expect to stop your posts getting deleted.

Quite frankly it is all very saintly what you are doing to protect newbies but I think the effort is futile, you have clearly got a brain on you so perhaps it's time to knuckle down and focus on spanking the market (if you are not already).

It's not saintly. PB does the things he does because it pleases him. You'd have to be fairly naive to think otherwise.

I think the message is clear they dont want vendor bashers here, the majority of members want vendors to post in a separate section (as demonstration by the recent poll) but they have done bugg3r all.

On the contrary. Vendor bashers are accommodated here. If it doesn't go exaclty their way, toys get thrown out of prams. People want things to be exactly the way they want. That is impossible. this is a community, yet certain people think that everything should be as they desire.

The poll you mentioned got less than 100 votes. What does that say about the majority? What about the people that saw the thread, thought "Oh no, not again!"?

 

[DionysusToast]

It is also the perception of a notorious vendor. Leaving that aside, I have lost count of the number of chumps I have seen on this site falling for the lies of vendorscum. And of course, it is consciously aimed at noobies, who in this business are for the most part utter idiots.

How many chumps have you witnessed? 10, 20, 500, 1000, 1,000,000.

Do you have a ballpark number?

Why would so many vendorscum target this site so relentlessly if they didn't think it a fertile hunting ground for idiots?

This is an interesting question.

How many vendorscum are on the Forbes list? How many disappear after 2 months?

I think a lot of people get into the verdorscummage business because it appears to be easy money. I think 99.999% of them fail. My presumption has always been that the majority of vendors are failed traders and not savvy scam artistes.

So - do we need to discern (for the sake of Joe Public) between the idiots who spend $99 on a web site and claim to have a 99.99999% system that turns $0 into $99999999 overnight and the more savvy, seasoned con artiste that decides traders are his next target. The former will more than likely get 1 or 2 punters whereas the latter might be ripping people for millions?

Regardless of how many available chumps there are here, the place will get hit by 'vendors without a clue' anyway. This does not mean they are successful.

 

[The Leopard]

How many chumps have you witnessed? 10, 20, 500, 1000, 1,000,000.

Do you have a ballpark number?



This is an interesting question.

How many vendorscum are on the Forbes list? How many disappear after 2 months?

I think a lot of people get into the verdorscummage business because it appears to be easy money. I think 99.999% of them fail. My presumption has always been that the majority of vendors are failed traders and not savvy scam artistes.

So - do we need to discern (for the sake of Joe Public) between the idiots who spend $99 on a web site and claim to have a 99.99999% system that turns $0 into $99999999 overnight and the more savvy, seasoned con artiste that decides traders are his next target. The former will more than likely get 1 or 2 punters whereas the latter might be ripping people for millions?

Regardless of how many available chumps there are here, the place will get hit by 'vendors without a clue' anyway. This does not mean they are successful.

How many chumps? Hundreds I would imagine, but I haven't been keeping a count.

I have no evidence for it but I would imagine that you are right - most vendors are probably failed traders. They probably remember what it was like being a noob and imagine as you say that there are easy and rich pickings to be had by targetting the current crop of noobs.

I don't think it matters whether the scam vendors are successful or not. They should not be tolerated in the same way as any inept conman or thief should not be tolerated.

If nothing else, the decision to dumb down, allow vendors a very free reign and concentrate on attracting and catering for noobs has effectively ruined the site. It isn't really a trading site any more, and will never be again unless this matter is addressed. If it was made clear that it is a serious site aimed at serious people, it would change dramatically.

But it isn't. It is aimed at people who buy systems and training and punt on SB or with a retail forex bucket shop.

Seriously, you've been around a while. Look at the articles section and the people who write them. Can you honestly tell me you don't p1ss yourself laughing? And what type of person is going to be attracted by the kind of garbage you get in there?

Admin / staff complain about all the lulz / sport, but why would any serious person use this place for anything else with the way it is?

 

[DionysusToast]

Has to be said - a lot of the articles are ridiculous. The recent one on scalping a perfect example - it was completely empty of anything useful at all.

Now - I don't read the whole forum. Aren't vendorscum mostly gone in 60 seconds, with a few of us scumfiltrators longer lived?

In terms of categories, I think we have (btw, I will exclude myself because CD will bring me in later):

1 - Instant vendor - one post wonder with tales of that gets reported and banned fairly quickly
2 - Subtle vendor - posts tales of megabucks before revealing his vendorship
3 - Repeat offender - see WallStreet1928

Probably more that I didn't think of...

Now - by definition, isn't the repeat offenders that are the most successful at the game and worthy of the most attention?

 

[The Leopard]

Has to be said - a lot of the articles are ridiculous. The recent one on scalping a perfect example - it was completely empty of anything useful at all.

Now - I don't read the whole forum. Aren't vendorscum mostly gone in 60 seconds, with a few of us scumfiltrators longer lived?

In terms of categories, I think we have (btw, I will exclude myself because CD will bring me in later):

1 - Instant vendor - one post wonder with tales of that gets reported and banned fairly quickly
2 - Subtle vendor - posts tales of megabucks before revealing his vendorship
3 - Repeat offender - see WallStreet1928

Probably more that I didn't think of...

Now - by definition, isn't the repeat offenders that are the most successful at the game and worthy of the most attention?

I would say the 'educators' lol probably need the biggest kicking, but I'd imagine that's problematical because they probably provide quite a lot of revenue.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

You are unable to understand my posts because of your presumptions. I will present my argument once more.

1 - Charts are NOT the market

There is no need to go any further than point 1 you muppet. Charts ARE the market they are just a different way of presenting the same data. I hear you crying out no they dont they dont tell you how many contracts did this and that against the bid / off, only my indicator can tell you that. If your indicator is so good why dont professional traders use it, why aren't you profitable. We can place a volume bar chart on our screen for the volume between certain time intervals.

You either are too thick to understand that or it is a veiled attempt to lead people towards your tape reading indicator scam software. To your credit I suspect it's the latter.

you have pretty much ignored all chart analysis I do on this thread : http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...-500-other-indexes-intraday-plus-chat-56.html - As such your perception that I bang on about idiotic TA to promote my tools is rather silly, I show quite clearly how I think charts should be viewed - with ZERO mention of the flow - unlike yourself who says nothing about trading at all.

Why would I even bother to read you 'ANALysis'. You dont realise this would be like me asking an estate agent what he thought about house prices, or asking a long only fund manager what he thought the market is going to do over the next year. i only chime in when you come out with the most unbelievable 'intelligent nonsense', mainly to bait you but also to give newbies the heads up that you are on the shaft.

You are NOT a profitable trader why would anyone listen to you? sure many will as quite frankly there are a lot of chumps around who are destined to fail.

I am a profitable trader, I dont say much about trader as quite frankly I enjoy the lulz that muppets like you provide. I can picture you now out in whatever sexpat ****hole you are in with your gut hanging out strutting round like you own the place. I guess you have been isolated from civilisation for so long you have began to believe your own bull5hit.

The poll you mentioned got less than 100 votes. What does that say about the majority?

are you from zimbabwe or something? a vote is a vote.

You keep banging on about me not arguing your points. There is no point, you are a non profitable failed trader who sells indicators for $249 a pop, it's embarrassing really. I just enjoy the sport of winding you up and watching you squirm and struggle. I am a profitable trader and there is no upside to arguing with you other than getting a rise which fills in the time inbetween trades lol.

 

[DionysusToast]

There is no need to go any further than point 1 you muppet. Charts ARE the market they are just a different way of presenting the same data. I hear you crying out no they dont they dont tell you how many contracts did this and that against the bid / off, only my indicator can tell you that. If your indicator is so good why dont professional traders use it, why aren't you profitable. We can place a volume bar chart on our screen for the volume between certain time intervals.

You either are too thick to understand that or it is a veiled attempt to lead people towards your tape reading indicator scam software. To your credit I suspect it's the latter.



Why would I even bother to read you 'ANALysis'. You dont realise this would be like me asking an estate agent what he thought about house prices, or asking a long only fund manager what he thought the market is going to do over the next year. i only chime in when you come out with the most unbelievable 'intelligent nonsense', mainly to bait you but also to give newbies the heads up that you are on the shaft.

You are NOT a profitable trader why would anyone listen to you? sure many will as quite frankly there are a lot of chumps around who are destined to fail.

I am a profitable trader, I dont say much about trader as quite frankly I enjoy the lulz that muppets like you provide. I can picture you now out in whatever sexpat ****hole you are in with your gut hanging out strutting round like you own the place. I guess you have been isolated from civilisation for so long you have began to believe your own bull5hit.



are you from zimbabwe or something? a vote is a vote.

You keep banging on about me not arguing your points. There is no point, you are a non profitable failed trader who sells indicators for $249 a pop, it's embarrassing really. I just enjoy the sport of winding you up and watching you squirm and struggle. I am a profitable trader and there is no upside to arguing with you other than getting a rise which fills in the time inbetween trades lol.

All this reply does, is highlight the fact that you have a personal issue with me.

You threats to leave, your return minutes later, your feeble attempts at getting banned and your off-balance rants seem to indicate that you are doing nothing here but getting a rise out of yourself.

 

[DionysusToast]

On the bright side CD - it is good to hear you have gotten over your inability to end a week with an uptick in your account.

I am not consistent. I want to get to the stage where I am at least intra week green, I can take a daily loss but not a weekly loss.

Great progress since July 26th! My hat off to you, sir.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

All this reply does, is highlight the fact that you have a personal issue with me.

You threats to leave, your return minutes later, your feeble attempts at getting banned and your off-balance rants seem to indicate that you are doing nothing here but getting a rise out of yourself.

lololol. not my fault they wont ban me, tried my best. Havn't you worked it out yet? all this is just to get a rise out of you, in the process we both look stupid, the thing is you are selling something and I am not so you are shooting yourself in the foot :clap:

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

On the bright side CD - it is good to hear you have gotten over your inability to end a week with an uptick in your account.

Great progress since July 26th! My hat off to you, sir.

Toast you selected that sentence out of the paragraph I wrote. I am green for the year to date, my comment above was just about intra week profitability you muppet. please lessons on profitability from a vendor rofl.

I would love to see one of your statements so I could you see fail miserably trading 1 contract of ES. :clap:

Any trader worth his salt can see how stupid this is, honestly selling indicators at $249 a pop, come on that's like 1 tick on a 20 lot. pathetic.

now run along as I have some pre-market analysis to do, will leave you to tweaking that indicator and generating more website hits

 

[Shakone]

DT, biases, vendor influenced or otherwise, are revealed not only by what you say and whether it's correct or not, but also by what you don't say.

The charts are not the market. Fine. Dom is not the market either. Delta is not, price alone is not, volume is not. Nothing is the market, except the market. So why do you need to say the charts are not the market? Seems strange. Do you feel the need to say, the DOM is not the market? What else do you say the market is not?

I don't want to get too in between you and Choccy's arguments which are quite fun to see, but I'd also disagree with point 3 from before.

you have missed the central point, that understanding markets must come before analysing charts. If you try to develop a technique based on charts as opposed to understanding the markets- you will fail. If you understand markets and then read charts on that basis - different matter.

It doesn't have to come before you analyse charts. Often it comes FROM analysing charts.

 

[DionysusToast]

DT, biases, vendor influenced or otherwise, are revealed not only by what you say and whether it's correct or not, but also by what you don't say.

The charts are not the market. Fine. Dom is not the market either. Delta is not, price alone is not, volume is not. Nothing is the market, except the market. So why do you need to say the charts are not the market? Seems strange. Do you feel the need to say, the DOM is not the market? What else do you say the market is not?

Perhaps because we were discussing TA at the time.

So - to please you, I should always, when discussing charts, talk about the order flow.

Which will then have Choccy doing backflips again.

 

[DionysusToast]

It doesn't have to come before you analyse charts. Often it comes FROM analysing charts.

I don't agree with that and I shall explain why, casting my mind back to all those crappy TA books.

Stocks have a value and a purpose, this much is true. Forex does too. Most derivatives products are actually nothing more than vehicles for gambling. I understand the 'price stability' arguments behind derivatives but let's face facts - oil prices sure aren't stable.

Despite stocks having a purpose, they are regularly 'gamed' just like any other market. Their price movements don't really reflect change in sentiment on a day to day basis.

The markets are a vehicle for gaming and gambling. I've never seen this in any TA book. You really wont come to this conclusion by studying charts. The idea of studying charts is that you will see a pattern and that pattern can then be applied repeatedly to make $$$$$.

The gaming aspect then comes into play. Take support & resistance, areas where many, many people like to enter the markets playing breakouts or reversals. Visually appealing areas. If the markets were mathematically pure, these would be perfect areas to enter a trade, although even mathematics would ensure any edge would be eroded due to price competition. The problem is that these areas are gamed. They are areas where big fish can push the market around and benefit from people puking out.

Now - those unable to understand nuance will now go off ranting "DT says you can't trade support & resistance" - this is not true at all. What DT says is that you can't be a player if you don't understand the game. Charts and traditional textbook TA along the lines of Alexander Elder et al will not reveal this side of trading to you.

And no - this does NOT have anything at all to do with order flow.

 

[DionysusToast]

lololol. not my fault they wont ban me, tried my best. Havn't you worked it out yet? all this is just to get a rise out of you, in the process we both look stupid, the thing is you are selling something and I am not so you are shooting yourself in the foot :clap:

Actually, as I pointed out - all you are proving here is that you have a personal issue with me. As for 'you trying to get a rise out of me' - if you didn't so convincingly throw your toys out of your pram, you'd probably be able to convince a few people this were true. You are just winding yourself up on here.

You didn't get banned because you were making a fool of yourself in your efforts.

As for me still selling something - that is correct, I am still selling software, these conversations on here are not even making a dent in the sales. People still buy it, people still get refunds when they decide it is not for them.

In short, my world continues turning, despite your best efforts.

Toodle pip.

 

[Shakone]

Perhaps because we were discussing TA at the time.

So - to please you, I should always, when discussing charts, talk about the order flow.

Which will then have Choccy doing backflips again.

Discuss what you like, it's unlikely to please me either way. I'm just pointing out inconsistencies. You like to say, correctly, that charts are not the market. You don't like to say, correctly, that DOm is not the market. Because you believe it is, or because you have a bias?

I'd be pleased if there were some actual discussion. Aside from the vendor nonsense, the appalling site articles and the anti vendor cacophony, we're left with a lot of arguments from people who don't know what 'predict' means (or are so stubborn they choose their own meaning), don't know what 'TA' is, or again choose their own definition and all others are wrong, don't know what 'random' means (as above) or we're given the occasional system thread, which is really an entry thread, where the entry giver wouldn't want to give us any exits...oh I wonder why...

 

[Shakone]

I don't agree with that and I shall explain why, casting my mind back to all those crappy TA books.

Stocks have a value and a purpose, this much is true. Forex does too. Most derivatives products are actually nothing more than vehicles for gambling. I understand the 'price stability' arguments behind derivatives but let's face facts - oil prices sure aren't stable.

Despite stocks having a purpose, they are regularly 'gamed' just like any other market. Their price movements don't really reflect change in sentiment on a day to day basis.

The markets are a vehicle for gaming and gambling. I've never seen this in any TA book. You really wont come to this conclusion by studying charts. The idea of studying charts is that you will see a pattern and that pattern can then be applied repeatedly to make $$$$$.

The gaming aspect then comes into play. Take support & resistance, areas where many, many people like to enter the markets playing breakouts or reversals. Visually appealing areas. If the markets were mathematically pure, these would be perfect areas to enter a trade, although even mathematics would ensure any edge would be eroded due to price competition. The problem is that these areas are gamed. They are areas where big fish can push the market around and benefit from people puking out.

Now - those unable to understand nuance will now go off ranting "DT says you can't trade support & resistance" - this is not true at all. What DT says is that you can't be a player if you don't understand the game. Charts and traditional textbook TA along the lines of Alexander Elder et al will not reveal this side of trading to you.

And no - this does NOT have anything at all to do with order flow.

I believe you have massively underestimated the human brain.

TA books are irrlevant here. We're talking about whether the brain can derive some market understanding just from charts. My answer is a resounding yes. You are welcome to disagree. But lets not cloud the issue with textbook TA.

 

[DionysusToast]

Well Shak - I use charts myself - but you are taking this out of context of the original discussion which was regarding TA.

We will agree to disagree, I do not think that studying charts will do you any good if you don't understand the market action that these charts represent.

During the initial stages of the Iraq war, there were some big swings in the US market which appear to be a kneejerk reaction to the reports of the progress of the war. These swings, when looking back at the charts, without considering the context, will be seen as support & resistance. I think we could all agree that the emotions in play at that specific time were unique and that those same emotions are no longer at play today. Someone looking at that area on weekly/monthly charts would make some invalid assumptions about those price levels based on analysis of price time series.

This is context, this is understanding the market. You could pick over historical charts for the past 20 years looking for wisdom but the action is always in context of the 'mood' of traders at that time. You lose that context when you pick over price charts looking for wisdom.