VSAtrader / Socrates discussion

[dc2000]

Thank you for your response although I do have to slightly disagree on the following

A peice of software cannot interpret movements for a user. A peice of software can only display what is happening and what has happened, because a peice of software cannot think for itself, it can only record in graphic form past events and events as they unfold.

It is therefore the user and not the software that has to do the thinking about what is presented, what to do about it or not.

This is where the difficulty starts, otherwise no human intervention would be needed.

Having been involved with Neural Nets for some time once the user gives it a set of parameters it can go off and do its thing which is why many of the larger trading houses are increasingly using them

And a small note not that Im any literary genius but its I before E except after C

 

[SOCRATES]

Thank you for your response although I do have to slightly disagree on the following

Having been involved with Neural Nets for some time once the user gives it a set of parameters it can go off and do its thing which is why many of the larger trading houses are increasingly using them

And a small note not that Im any literary genius but its I before E except after C

Thank you for correcting my error.

I have no knowledge of Neural Nets at all.

But I have observed that individuals whether collectively or singly are apt to put different interpretations on what it is they look at. As a consequence, everyone ends up having different opinions. This is the difficulty.

 

[VSATrader]

Socrates

These are the last meaningful trading accounts, the company is now dissolved. If the licence to the software, logo rights etc belonged to the company it should now belong to TG Williams (unless it has been sold again). If this company is to be included in this discussion, then it is only fair that all observers of the discussion know who is behind this company.

I decided to withdraw my original text.


Regards

 

[charliechan]

But I have observed that individuals whether collectively or singly are apt to put different interpretations on what it is they look at. As a consequence, everyone ends up having different opinions. This is the difficulty.

is it? if it wasnt for this, then we would have no market and so we would have to find another livelyhood.

i see all differences of opinion as opportunity. i have no regard for what is right and what is wrong, as these are only human conditions after all. one mans right is another mans wrong. this is the way of the world and t2w.

 

[Porks]

'when banned members have actually asked to come back, in every single case the mods & admins have discussed it, agreed certain rules to be abided by with that individual, and those members who have come back have respected those rules. '

Good to know, since it seems you guys are getting pretty trigger happy lately,

Oh, and Matt, lay off with the condescending tone, eh ?

Tut, these young whipper snappers.

Porks

 

[pb]

Yes, OTT has been banned permanently, for several reasons:

1. He is quite clearly a previous member who has also been banned, despite his pleadings. When he comes back in another guise, as he most likely will, he will be banned again.
...
4. Several other members seem to believe he might be someone else, and ask yourself this: How come a member who joins earlier this month knows so much about the history of the site if they haven't been here before? (see the various posts by OTT regarding Skimbleshanks, "standards of moderation" etc).

Rossored,
No offence intended but I am reasonably sure that there is one regular (senior) member on T2W who you KNOW to be an old member, but you have chosen to do nothing about it. I have asked one of the mods 3 times the exact same question and all I have is total silence, although he has always replied other questions. Worth noting that the mod in question has not denied the allegation. Just total silence.

I don't think you are unaware of who I am talking about. You have taken a preferential approach towards this person, just as you have done with Soc.

Before you ask, a few months back I have made this allegation in a public thread. It's there for everyone to see. No mod ever came forward with a rebuttal.

 

[counter_violent]

This applies not only to VSA4 modified, but additionally to the whole stable of other programs under my ownership and personal control.

Well well well, look what we have here!

 

[frugi]

Pratbh,

It's really quite simple. The member of whom you speak was banned previously for a spate of rather aggressive behaviour towards another member. After a few weeks, he asked politely if he might return and assured us - with an apology - that he would curb his aggression, a wish which we granted after consulting with each other. Up until now he has been true to his word and we are quite happy for him to remain a member while he continues to be so. I'm not sure why you view this as preferential treatment as we (as Rosso has already pointed out) will reconsider any ban if we feel that circumstances no longer warrant it. A ban is not necessarily a life sentence and I feel it that is how it should be. This applies to every member, not just the one you are aware of.

 

[pb]

Frugi
I see this as preferential treatment because this member has been very aggressive to another member SINCE his return, forcing this other member to exile. You know who I am talking about here as well.

If he was taking any medication on anger management, obviously that hasn't worked.

Question to the wider audience: is it just me being thick and did you guys all know of this policy of letting disruptive members back in quietly?

 

[houdani]

This is a very interesting post as this moderator seems to know something I don't. I do NOT work for Trade Guider, nor do I have a commercial interest in them. I have received no payment from them except once when I did one seminar which they now sell, buy I have never promoted. I have to use TG charts, but if you have ever taken the time to look, you will see that I have posted using Meta-stock charts too, but I am not employed by them, or receive any financial reward for posting charts with their charts either.

I have the right to post any charts I see fits, but if this is not correct, and this will apply to all other posters who use charts including esignal charts or Java charts of web sites. Then write some guide lines for us all. If not then put up or shut up.

I happen to think that Tom Williams has opened many traders eyes, including my own, and I have the most profound respect for him. I have used VSA including Trade Guider for 9 years and have made many times my outlay on the software and upgrades that followed. what I stand for is the Wyckoff principles that Tom has expanded on over the years, while many people chose to go on holiday, I would spend all my free time studying Tom's book and the charts I would print off. This included bank holidays, Christmas etc.

So I realise that I might give the impression that I am funded by TG, but I'm not. But what makes me laugh at you moderators, is the fact that not one of you bothered to ask me before you made this statement.

The reason that Socs is more or less allowed to post what he likes, is that the Mods like people who provoke discussion , after all this is what this web site is about. but as far as I am concerned, I don't have time any more to come hear and read, because I trade FX now and this keeps me occupied.

I believe that the future of this board will become private threads in order to keep certain elements out of the discussion .

Tom and I have done a free seminar of the chart of the week, I will post the link as it would help people who are interested in the Wyckoff principles to learn from Tom first hand what this analysis is about, and I hope the mods will allow this one. I don't expect anyone to buy the software and have no interest if they do as I will not receive any reward. This link is an educational one.
http://www.tradeguider.com/cotw.asp

Regards Sebastian Manby

thanks for posting this link sebastian, i found it fairly interesting as volume analysis is something i`ve largely neglected in my own trading.dark horses,darksiders whatever you call yourselves, it might be worth reading one of toms books and a small trip to the nether regions myself

 

[charliechan]

Frugi
I see this as preferential treatment because this member has been very aggressive to another member SINCE his return, forcing this other member to exile. You know who I am talking about here as well.

If he was taking any medication on anger management, obviously that hasn't worked.

Question to the wider audience: is it just me being thick and did you guys all know of this policy of letting disruptive members back in quietly?

i really dont see what the fuss is about. is this all you have to worry about? if i were you, id be worrying about a lot more than this.

i say this because of your previous accusations against members which proved to be unfounded. perhaps a trouble maker like you should be the one who is banned?

 

[Bigbusiness]

Welcome back form your ban pratbh.

I think this should be sorted out. Members are suspended but "banned" appears under their name. When the suspension runs out, the "banned" is removed and they carry on as normal. Why not use a yellow and red card system? One yellow for a warning, two for a suspension and a red for a permanent ban. Put the cards under the users name and we will all know what is going on. Of course, a straight red could be used in extreme cases.

 

[rossored]

Welcome back form your ban pratbh.

I think this should be sorted out. Members are suspended but "banned" appears under their name. When the suspension runs out, the "banned" is removed and they carry on as normal. Why not use a yellow and red card system? One yellow for a warning, two for a suspension and a red for a permanent ban. Put the cards under the users name and we will all know what is going on. Of course, a straight red could be used in extreme cases.

A good idea, BB. I'll run it past everyone, and see if there's some way we can implement this technically.

 

[pb]

i really dont see what the fuss is about. is this all you have to worry about? if i were you, id be worrying about a lot more than this.

i say this because of your previous accusations against members which proved to be unfounded. perhaps a trouble maker like you should be the one who is banned?

Good for you to come forward, because yes, I was talking about you.

I made two accusations:
First one was that you are using multiple nicks and the mods were not doing anything about it. I was 100% correct in that. You were indeed an old member who came back with a new nick and the mods knew about it. I couldn't have known that mods have let you in intentionally. So I was 100% correct in that conclusion and as far as I know, I was the only member who actually spotted that you are a multi-nicker. Not bad at all, if you ask me.

The second accusation was that you and Soc were the same person. By this time I KNEW that you were a multi-nicker. You and Soc were singing from the exact same hymn sheet down to the last dot. This led me to assume you two were the same. I was wrong in this assumption.

 

[rossored]

First one was that you are using multiple nicks and the mods were not dooing anything about it. I was 100% correct in that. You were indeed an old member who came back with a new nick and the mods knew about it.

This is not quite correct, actually.

As soon as we knew about this, I sent a PM and made him aware that we knew. The response to that PM was critical to avoid another instant, permanent ban, and It was also mentioned at that point that the behaviour would have to be different to stop another ban, as I have mentioned earlier. As far as I know (and please understand that we cannot and do not read every single post on the site) that has been the case - so far. Disagreements are inevitable when you have a board with 40k+ registered members, a large proportion of whom would probably be viewed by many as Alpha males.

EDIT: Also, it is worth mentioning that unless you have a static IP, it is impossible to permanently ban an individual from the board. Not many people do have static IP's, and many share a cached IP address, so whilst we could ban a range of IP's, it is inevitably going to affect more than just the one individual we want to ban - which is obviously something we would like to avoid.

i suggested this system to the mods a few months back......was told it was being implemented...makes you wonder

Well, not really. There has been, and always will be technical work going on in the site in the background that takes preference that members are probably not aware of. Work on the KLab, Traderpedia, general code problems and bug fixes here and there. Sometimes things get put on the back burner and forgotten about - just like in normal jobs. This appears to have happened here, but I have mentioned it again to all the mods this morning after BB's post, and we'll go from there.

 

[charliechan]

Good for you to come forward, because yes, I was talking about you.

I made two accusations:
First one was that you are using multiple nicks and the mods were not dooing anything about it. I was 100% correct in that. You were indeed an old member who came back with a new nick and the mods knew about it. I couldn't have known that mods have let you in intentionally. So I was 100% correct in that conclusion and as far as I know, I was the only member who actually spotted that you are a multi-nicker. Not bad at all, if you ask me.

The second accusation was that you and Soc were the same person. By this time I KNEW that you were a multi-nicker. You and Soc were singing from the exact same hymn sheet down to the last dot. This led me to assume you two were the same. I was wrong in this assumption.

err not quite. i have never ran more than one nick at a time. so you are wrong on another point too.

anyway, like i said, its a shame you have nothing else better to do than worry about peoples past nicks.

 

[pb]

err not quite. i have never ran more than one nick at a time. so you are wrong on another point too.

Whether you use two nicks at the same time or two weeks after one another is a theoretical argument. You know it, as does everyone else.

anyway, like i said, its a shame you have nothing else better to do than worry about peoples past nicks.

If I wrote this, I would have been banned again, by now. Good to see you are rigorously following the T2W guidelines on acceptable conduct.

Mods Note: Content edited in both posts. Jeez, pratbh - give us a chance. We are not glued to the boards all day, nor do we see every post..

 

[charliechan]

Whether you use two nicks at the same time or two weeks after one another is a theoretical argument. You know it, as does everyone else.



If I wrote this, I would have been banned again, by now. Good to see you are rigorously following the T2W guidelines on acceptable conduct.

Mods Note: Content edited in both posts. Jeez, pratbh - give us a chance. We are not glued to the boards all day, nor do we see every post..

well this kind of proves my point - that you must go running to the mods every time there is something you dont like. is t2w really such an important part of your life? is all this really so fascinating to you?

perhaps you should realise this: that the mods have better things to do than run around after you (or me or anyone else) all the time. some of us have more important things in our lives than what anonymous people, who we will most likely never meet or know think about us.

if there is any favouritism being shown, does this tell you something? i would have thought that someone who takes a chat board like this as such an integral and important part of their life would have sussed it by now.

perhaps a chat site for teenagers may be more to your liking? just a thought.

meanwhile - your arch enemy socrates is having the time of his life now that you have taken the spotlight off of him in your quest to cause trouble. you let him get away!! talk about a blunder!! will you ever learn!!

hehehehe

 

[Bigbusiness]

I didn't realise that some banned members are given a new nick when they are reinstated. I realise that in the past people have left in a blaze of glory and they don't want the shame of being seen here again. Perhaps if they are going to start posting again, their previous nick should be listed in their profile. This would clear up the confusion when it looks like someone is using a multiple nick.

 

[rossored]

well this kind of proves my point - that you must go running to the mods every time there is something you dont like. is t2w really such an important part of your life? is all this really so fascinating to you?

CC - prathbh did not report the post, I amended it in a bid to bring an end to this somewhat irritating thread, and stop the bickering between the pair of you.

Please god let this be an end to it...or we will have to close the thread.

BB - they are not 'given' a new nick - it's one that they choose in an attempt to get round the banning. In the past we haven't changed it back to thier old nick, and probably won't - kind of a clean rap sheet when/if they come back (usually)