VSAtrader / Socrates discussion

[VSATrader]

I am surprised to hear that you do not have a commercial interest in this product. I have never seen anyone tout the wonders of a program the way you do TG who doesn't have or hope to have an ongoing relationship with the product vendor. Are you saying you would not do a seminar again for them if they offered to pay you?

If you never intend to work for Tom's business again, then I accept your explanation and stand corrected. Thanks for clearing this up.

JO

The point you have over looked JO, is that I excel the methodology, the principles which happen to be sold be TG. I do not really like giving seminars for anyone, but it does give me the opportunity to go over the principles I have learned over the years, and so I am re-teaching myself at the same time. The other reason is that I spend a lot of time with Tom, and therefore am asked because I happen to know a thing or two. I do not consider myself a guru, neither do I promote myself as one. Nor have I ever canvassed anyone to buy TG.

But I am guilty of promoting the principles of Wyckoff and Williams.

Regards Sebastian

 

[purplekiwi]

I am surprised to hear that you do not have a commercial interest in this product. I have never seen anyone tout the wonders of a program the way you do TG who doesn't have or hope to have an ongoing relationship with the product vendor. Are you saying you would not do a seminar again for them if they offered to pay you?

If you never intend to work for Tom's business again, then I accept your explanation and stand corrected. Thanks for clearing this up.

Jumpoff

I have been through VSATrader's posts and am unable to find any where he "touts the wonders of tradeGuider".

What he does do is promote the use of volume spread analysis, which can and is used on a number of charting programs. I myself have VSA signals programmed in to metastock.

Maybe you could quote the post you are referring to.

Also, maybe you could answer the question, why did you not ask VSATrader before making the above accusation? Whether he does any work for TG in the future is irrelevant (he is not physic, unlike some people on this board). VSATraders' intentions have no bearing on statements you have made on his current standing with TradeGuider. I happen to know he has no financial interest in the company, and if you were to contact Gavin Holmes, CEO of TradeGuider, he will verify this for you.

Also, TradeGuider is not Tom's business, although he does have connections to it.

A quick visit to the TG website should verify the above.

 

[purplekiwi]

What happened to the two last posts here by Over The Top? If he was banned as a result of these two posts, then something is definitely wrong here!

There was absolutely nothing wrong with what he said, if a moderator can not take a little criticism (entirely justified in my opinion), then maybe he should consider another line of work.

Am I the next to be banned??

 

[dc2000]

jump off

A little legal note if I may ( please feel free to check with sharky I think he said he had a law degree ) what you have posted previously is based on supposition.

To then post

If you never intend to work for Tom's business again, then I accept your explanation and stand corrected.

Is incorrect you are talking about a future event and in your original post you were talking of a present event.
If VSA assures you that he has no commercial involvement with tradeguider at the moment then you should stand corrected.

 

[rossored]

Yes, OTT has been banned permanently, for several reasons:

1. He is quite clearly a previous member who has also been banned, despite his pleadings. When he comes back in another guise, as he most likely will, he will be banned again.
2. The vast majority of his posts are on this thread, where he has caused little but trouble. Do the search yourself if you don't believe me.
3. The mod team are in agreement with his banning.
4. Several other members seem to believe he might be someone else, and ask yourself this: How come a member who joins earlier this month knows so much about the history of the site if they haven't been here before? (see the various posts by OTT regarding Skimbleshanks, "standards of moderation" etc). Hence, most likely this is someone who has re-registered after being banned previously.
5. No, you are not next, because as far as we're aware you're not making trouble nor ar you a multinicker.

If you're in any serious doubt about it, and think it actually warrants any of your time (in the nicest possible way), then read back over his posts. I'm sure you'll notice a distinct similarity between them and another member who was banned earlier this year.

 

[JumpOff]

The point you have over looked JO, is that I excel the methodology, the principles which happen to be sold be TG. I do not really like giving seminars for anyone, but it does give me the opportunity to go over the principles I have learned over the years, and so I am re-teaching myself at the same time. The other reason is that I spend a lot of time with Tom, and therefore am asked because I happen to know a thing or two. I do not consider myself a guru, neither do I promote myself as one. Nor have I ever canvassed anyone to buy TG.

But I am guilty of promoting the principles of Wyckoff and Williams.

Regards Sebastian

I am content with your explanation.
JO

 

[barjon]

It seems to me that this thread should be closed now since it's original purpose seems to have run it's course.

Before anyone jumps up and down, though, there has been a lot of dicussion about moderating standards, site guidelines and the like and I shouldn't like it to be thought that I am trying to inhibit that discussion in any way.

I will, however, close the thread later today unless there are serious objections.

good trading

jon

 

[dc2000]

Mmm you are correct the site rules do have stipulations on multi nicks but there is no stipulation that a banned member must not re-register in order to circumvent the banning. But Im sure that will be attended to posthaste

 

[SOCRATES]

Hello Albert,


I am very sorry to disappoint you, but the logo is taken from VSA5, not v4. The reason it was taken from v5 is that v4 which you sell is not year 2000 compliant, yet you still sell it.

So I will never take it down.

Sebastian

Again you overlook the significance of the OBVIOUS.

I cannot stop you displaying the VSA5 logo, but that logo belongs to a program owned by an enterprise that is now defunct, in any event. The enterprise in question is Genie Software Ltd.

But I do resent your false accusation that I am selling it, which I am not.

Show me on this website, or anywhere else for that matter where I am selling it, go on.

There are websites that offer discounted pirated copies of everything, including Tradeguider real time and end of day, and a thorough search on the internet will help you to verify this fact, but I have nothing to do with any that, thank you very much.

Even if anyone got hold of a pirated copy of the original 4, they would find it to be useless without further code, that I am unwilling to release.

The reason is very simple.

The existing users consider it so valuable to their use, that despite repeated approaches, they flatly refuse to change, or upgrade to 5, 7, or anything else.

And for this reason, I have taken the modified copy with code off the market, and retain it for private use as in its present form we ( the users) consider it too valuable to let anybody else have whether paid or unpaid.

This applies not only to VSA4 modified, but additionally to the whole stable of other programs under my ownership and personal control.



Now, let it finally be known and made clear that you displaying the logo does not connect you to my ownership and tiltle to the program in any way, and does not in any way including subliminal advertising suggest that VSA is available, in any way you might suggest at all.

 

[rossored]

Mmm you are correct the site rules do have stipulations on multi nicks but there is no stipulation that a banned member must not re-register in order to circumvent the banning. But Im sure that will be attended to posthaste

Quite true.

However, I think it is pretty obvious that if you do re-register and we find out, you will be banned again. A new nick does not mean the slate is wiped clean. In some cases, we have allowed members back on the promise that they are changed/will not cause trouble again, and they've even done the simplest of things and apologised for being so disruptive in the first place. I would stress that with the member in question, this is extremely unlikely to happen, and it's a heck of a lot simpler to keep re-banning the same person (1 click of a mouse) than it is to create a new hotmail.co.uk account, re-register at the site etc, so folk who do this are simply wasting their time.

The Site Guidelines are not intended to be an end to everything. They are guidelines. The moderators and admins are here to keep the site clean and tidy, keep mindless idiots off the boards and try to run it as best we can.

 

[Porks]

Em...

So when you're banned you're banned forever ?

Forever's a long, long time.

You don't get forever for murder out in the real world, in 99.99% of the cases.

It's your show I guess.

Still it's very harsh for those who have friends here.


Porks

 

[charliechan]

Again you overlook the significance of the OBVIOUS.

I cannot stop you displaying the VSA5 logo, but that logo belongs to a program owned by an enterprise that is now defunct, in any event. The enterprise in question is Genie Software Ltd.

But I do resent your false accusation that I am selling it, which I am not.

Show me on this website, or anywhere else for that matter where I am selling it, go on.

There are websites that offer discounted pirated copies of everything, including Tradeguider real time and end of day, and a thorough search on the internet will help you to verify this fact, but I have nothing to do with any that, thank you very much.

Even if anyone got hold of a pirated copy of the original 4, they would find it to be useless without further code, that I am unwilling to release.

The reason is very simple.

The existing users consider it so valuable to their use, that despite repeated approaches, they flatly refuse to change, or upgrade to 5, 7, or anything else.

And for this reason, I have taken the modified copy with code off the market, and retain it for private use as in its present form we ( the users) consider it too valuable to let anybody else have whether paid or unpaid.

This applies not only to VSA4 modified, but additionally to the whole stable of other programs under my ownership and personal control.

Now, let it finally be known and made clear that you displaying the logo does not connect you to my ownership and tiltle to the program in any way, and does not in any way including subliminal advertising suggest that VSA is available, in any way you might suggest at all.

i had you down as a discretionary trader - not one who must use software programs and indicators etc to help make decisions!!

please, tell me i am wrong.

if you are a discretionary trader, what do these widgets and whoddydoodies do?

cheers.

ps - barjon - i am sure there is no need to close this thread. the troublemakers have been caught and dealt with, and socrates is now addressing the vastrader issues as the thread was originally intended. what purpose would closing the thread have? the issues will remain unresolved and likely spill out into other areas, over time, creating more hard work for the moderators. best have the inevitable in one place.

this idea of yours reminds me of the people who say the way to tackle binge drinking is to firm up on drinking laws, not relax them - the very issue that creates binge drinking in the first place!!! doh!!!

 

[VSATrader]

Again you overlook the significance of the OBVIOUS.

I cannot stop you displaying the VSA5 logo, but that logo belongs to a program owned by an enterprise that is now defunct, in any event. The enterprise in question is Genie Software Ltd.

But I do resent your false accusation that I am selling it, which I am not.

Show me on this website, or anywhere else for that matter where I am selling it, go on.

There are websites that offer discounted pirated copies of everything, including Tradeguider real time and end of day, and a thorough search on the internet will help you to verify this fact, but I have nothing to do with any that, thank you very much.

Even if anyone got hold of a pirated copy of the original 4, they would find it to be useless without further code, that I am unwilling to release.

The reason is very simple.

The existing users consider it so valuable to their use, that despite repeated approaches, they flatly refuse to change, or upgrade to 5, 7, or anything else.

And for this reason, I have taken the modified copy with code off the market, and retain it for private use as in its present form we ( the users) consider it too valuable to let anybody else have whether paid or unpaid.

This applies not only to VSA4 modified, but additionally to the whole stable of other programs under my ownership and personal control.

Now, let it finally be known and made clear that you displaying the logo does not connect you to my ownership and tiltle to the program in any way, and does not in any way including subliminal advertising suggest that VSA is available, in any way you might suggest at all.

I understood that you only sold it to your students, and the avitar I use does not have a version number. But this bit about it being too valuable is amazing considering you cannot use it today as the date cannot read beyond 1999, so do your students only look at hisorical data?

I also understand that you still sell the program to anyone who will buy it.


I also find it strange that you would quote Tom's replys to you, but not the questions. When you started out as a guru(after the newspaper article) you asked Tom for advice and asked him questions, these were the reply's he gave you. So you did not understand what he was conveying to you, you just repeated. That newspaper reported is banned from writing anymore articles as there were a record number of complaints, and the 2 million you made from these gulliable students went to the tax and VAT man. If you want to take this any further, I will get a list of your previous students , interview them and put these recordings on my website for all to listen.

One last point here, the are no diamonds, no hidden gems, you try to create an air that you are holding something back from everyone so that if they are nice to you, you might be persuaded to part with something no one else knows. I know for a fact this is not true.

Have a nice day

 

[dc2000]

Im a little confused here in the original topics of discussion a year ago there was a lot of talk about darksiding and how one should interpret various movements in the market hence the whole psychology thing. are we now saying that a piece of software can interpret these movements for the user.

If this is the case then does the user need the psychological factors in order to trade this method?
If this is not the case then surely the software is useless without being taught the psychological aspects?

 

[dc2000]

2 Million - are you serious - and I thought there was no money in teaching

 

[Bigbusiness]

It seems to me that this thread should be closed now since it's original purpose seems to have run it's course.

Before anyone jumps up and down, though, there has been a lot of discussion about moderating standards, site guidelines and the like and I shouldn't like it to be thought that I am trying to inhibit that discussion in any way.

I will, however, close the thread later today unless there are serious objections.

good trading

jon

Why close this thread? I think the moderators are right to close threads when there is a lot of abuse between posters but I think sometimes it is better to let us get on with it. It will probably die of natural causes, no need to pull the plug

 

[Bigbusiness]

2 Million - are you serious - and I thought there was no money in teaching

£180,000 from the course Mike Elvin went on. I would have thought 2 million was easy to achieve. Not sure how the tax man got hold of it though.

 

[rossored]

Em...

So when you're banned you're banned forever ?

Forever's a long, long time.

You don't get forever for murder out in the real world, in 99.99% of the cases.

It's your show I guess.

Still it's very harsh for those who have friends here.


Porks

In the vast majority of cases, yes you are banned forever. That is rather the purpose of a ban...

At risk of repeating myself, when banned members have actually asked to come back, in every single case the mods & admins have discussed it, agreed certain rules to be abided by with that individual, and those members who have come back have respected those rules. This individual does not respect the rules, has not asked to come back, and - more to the point - is not welcome, friends or not. If they continue to re-register, they will continue to be banned as and when we discover it. I'm sorry if you dont like it, but they are the rules, as everyone is well aware. As such, I am not willing to spend any more time discussing this particular scenario.

 

[SOCRATES]

Im a little confused here in the original topics of discussion a year ago there was a lot of talk about darksiding and how one should interpret various movements in the market hence the whole psychology thing. are we now saying that a piece of software can interpret these movements for the user.

If this is the case then does the user need the psychological factors in order to trade this method?
If this is not the case then surely the software is useless without being taught the psychological aspects?

A peice of software cannot interpret movements for a user. A peice of software can only display what is happening and what has happened, because a peice of software cannot think for itself, it can only record in graphic form past events and events as they unfold.

It is therefore the user and not the software that has to do the thinking about what is presented, what to do about it or not.

This is where the difficulty starts, otherwise no human intervention would be needed.

But because human intervention is needed the user has to have in place the correct psychological factors in order to cope with what is presented.

The software in its own right is not useless. No software is ever useless if it displays what has happened and is happening accurately , it is the human element that counts.

This human element is the part that cannot be taught, that is the difficulty. The psychological aspects are plain for everyone who experiences them to explain. But it is very difficult to modify the human element or nearly impossible, this is because many people look at the same thing together but each of them percieve what they look at differently, that is the problem.

It is very easy for them to end up seeing what they want to see instead of seeing what is.

 

[SOCRATES]

Here is Genie Software Limited.

Ok, I stand to be corrected.

But Tom gave me to understand last year he had closed it down.

Obviously it is not the case, or I did not understand him correctly.