Ukraine invasion

[CavaliereVerde]

The reality is that Russia is losing the war and now every russian knows it.
Internal support for the war was just a facade, pure survival.
Now survival means avoid to be drafted.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

One of the reasons I was right about Ukraine not being steamrolled by Russia in few days or weeks is this video I watched 2 years ago.

The fantasy of Russian army vs the reality.

 

[timsk]

The reality is that Russia is losing the war and now every russian knows it.
Internal support for the war was just a facade, pure survival.
Now survival means avoid to be drafted.

Fantasy vs real life truth, CV. Again!!!
Stick with the former all you want but, sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost and, like it or not, you'll be forced to embrace the reality of the latter.

The west have got their knickers in a twist by Putin's latest move. They know that the referendums in the 4 regions under Russian control will likely result in them becoming part of Russia. They also know that that will enable Putin to upgrade the 'special military operation' to one that will legally (under Russian law) permit him to bring in many more troops to defend what will officially become sovereign Russian territory. On top of that, he's threatened to use nuclear weapons if he's faced with an existential threat. All the while, the west's hands are completely tied, there's very little - if anything - that they can do. It means that Zelensky's hope (and yours) of driving Russian forces out of the territories that were formerly part of Ukraine are completely dead and buried. It also means that you and c_v lose our bet!

Tim.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

What you call democracy ...

Liz Truss and Britain’s 0.17% "Democracy" (Monocracy)

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” – John F. Kennedy. Written by Brett Redmayne-Titley. With...

southfront.org

Russia's Geranium-2 UAVs Hit Targets In Odessa

On September 23, Russian Geran-2 UAVs hit several targets in the city of Odessa. Ukrainian forces attempted to intercept drones...

southfront.org

Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporozhie Regions Vote On Joining Russia Amid Clashes Around Lyman

On September 23, the most intense fighting between Russian forces and pro-Kyiv formations continued in the sector of Lyman, northeast...

southfront.org

Russia Responds To America's Plan To Win WW III

The U.S. Government no longer designs nuclear weapons to prevent WW III, but instead to win WW III. Written by...

southfront.org

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I think facts on the map matter more than scam referendums under occupation.
Ukraine is gaining ground steady.
I think the occupation on Kherson will collapse very soon like it happened in Izium 2 weeks ago.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

scam referendums

????
Who would you vote for if, like the pensioners, you haven't been paid since 2014 and have had to rely on Russian aid to survive since 2014?

Do you think the elections in Italy on this weekend are really better?

Italian observer notes legitimacy, absence of violations at DPR referendum

Some 130 foreign observers from 26 countries monitor the referendum on DPRâs accession to the Russian Federation, including representatives of Russia, Venezuela, Italy, Romania, Togo and South Africa

tass.com

Ukraine has still no plan (published) how to get peace in Donbas but kill civilians without a trial in the liberated areas of the counter offensive. Peace in Ukraine is a mandatory requirement to join the EU.

Moscow's decisions sow panic in Ukraine and the West

Kyiv and its masters need to decide what they can do next after the liberated territories launch the process of joining Russia

english.pravda.ru

 

[timsk]

I think facts on the map matter more than scam referendums under occupation.
Ukraine is gaining ground steady.
I think the occupation on Kherson will collapse very soon like it happened in Izium 2 weeks ago.

CV,
I don't know what maps you look at, but I look at the pro-Ukrainian one that Brian of 'The New Atlas' looks at - and that shows that Russia is in complete control of all that matters. Sure, the Ukrainians made some ground in the last few weeks in strategically unimportant areas to the north but, as anyone in the know knows, this was a desperate measure that came at great cost to reward their paymasters in the west. It's a one-off, unsustainable and is unlikely to be repeated. Think of football matches where a 3rd division side comes up against an in-form premier division side in the F.A. cup (in England). The premiership side might win by a margin of 4, 5, 6, or 7 goals but, almost always, the vastly weaker team manages to sneak in a single 'consolation' goal. So, the final score line is 4:1, 5:1, 6:1, or 7:1 etc. Ever noticed that? Well, Ukraine's recent victory is their token 'consolation' goal. They may win the occasional battle from time to time, but, mark my words when I say that they've lost the war. Just to be crystal clear, I don't mean they've yet to lose it - I mean they've already lost it. Bar the senseless, pointless fighting and the appalling suffering, loss of life and waste of money that that entails, it's now over and has been for quite some time.
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

"made some ground"
It is more than the ground made by russians in 3 months: 8500 sqkm.
Shoigu declared 6k russian casualties but they need to mobilize 300k or more to resist the Ukranian counteroffenisve.
So I think numbers provided by Ukraine are much closer to reality.
Putin used the dangerous card of the mobilization and now he is 100% doomed.
The final nail in his coffin.
You are right huge waste of money and of lives for a war that was already lost since day 4.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

"made some ground"
It is more than the ground made by russians in 3 months: 8500 sqkm.
Shoigu declared 6k russian casualties but they need to mobilize 300k or more to resist the Ukranian counteroffenisve.
So I think numbers provided by Ukraine are much closer to reality.
Putin used the dangerous card of the mobilization and now he is 100% doomed.
The final nail in his coffin.
You are right huge waste of money and of lives for a war that was already lost since day 4.

Did you ever do an own research what area was left or lost by the Russian army?

The DPR/Russian army is NOW on the right side of the pointed line, the Ukranian on the left.
Can you imagine why?

 

[CavaliereVerde]

So sad for Konstantin and for many honest russians experiencing this madness.

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

It's the same ol' story R_L: the difference between what you want to happen (fantasy) and what actually is happening (reality). The disconnect grows ever larger and, as the west and U.S. in particular watch their hegemony evaporating like never before - they become ever more desperate. Basically, it's game over for them: they've completely miscalculated the entire thing and are paying the price for their hubris, arrogance and self importance. Will they learn their lesson or will they continue to double down and make a bad situation worse? That, sadly, is a no-brainer. Consequently, we'll see more and more articles like the one you linked to and more crazy stories of Russians taking microchips out of washing machines to put into warheards and other such nonsense. It's pathetic, truly pathetic.
Tim.

So what you are saying is the opinions of two YouTube influencers researching from home is reality, while a leaked report about the Russian economy authored by people in the Russian government is fantasy.

That's a very convincing argument, and I concede to your debating skills.

 

[timsk]

So what you are saying is the opinions of two YouTube influencers researching from home is reality, while a leaked report about the Russian economy authored by people in the Russian government is fantasy.

R_L,
Okay, let's address your points in turn . . .

Firstly, 'The Duran' are no more 'influencers' than the BBC or Bloomberg. They're not marketing anything, there's no product placement and they're not selling anything beyond the idea that the war is pointless and the way to resolve the conflict is through diplomacy - not weaponry.

Secondly, the 'leaked report' was not published by Bloomberg - why not? If, as they claim, they've seen it and can write about it, then why not provide a link to it so that their readers can see it for themselves to decide if they agree with Bloomberg's interpretation of it? That's a rhetorical question as we both know the answer.

Thirdly, reading the article, it's clear that they're trying to make something out of nothing because it's filled with statements like these (note my emphasis in blue). . .

• ". . . Russia may face a longer and deeper recession as the impact of US and European sanctions spreads . . ." In other words they're speculating.
• ". . .The document, the result of months of work. . ." This tells us it's old, out of date and based on what they anticipated the impact of sanctions might be months ago - not what they are in reality today.
• ". . .People familiar with the deliberations confirmed its authenticity . . ." Which people? I'm guessing one of them is you, R_L! ;-) If their source is remotely credible, they would tell us who these people are.
• ". . .The report estimates as many as 200,000 IT specialists may leave the country by 2025 . . ." More speculation based on nothing very much.
• That's just the first few paragraphs so you get the idea, I haven't the time to go through the entire article.

Bloomberg is a government mouthpiece and, as such, is desperate to make out that western sanctions are having the desired effect, even though a partially sighted five year old with learning difficulties can see they're having minimal impact on Russia, while having a devastating impact on the west. By way of personal anecdote, I was on a job last week for someone who works for Ribeye boats in Dartmouth, South Devon. Due to the sanctions, the company's lost two orders, between them worth over £1 million to provide tenders to super yachts owned by Russian oligarchs. That's local people in England whose jobs are going to be impacted by these pointless sanctions.

Lastly, I suggest you do what the authors of the Bloomberg article don't want you to do - which is to look with your own eyes and draw your own conclusions from the mountains of available evidence that says Russia is doing just fine thank you while the west is going down the pan. As we're on T2W, the two charts below tell you all you need to know.
Tim.

 

[timsk]

Update on Russian military operations in Ukraine for September 23, 2022

• Russia to mobilise 300,000 in addition to 150,000 already involved in operations in Ukraine.
• Russian Ministry of Defense announces nearly 6,000 Russian dead, 61,000 Ukrainian dead plus another 49,000 Ukrainians injured.
• Russian MoD claims Ukraine has mobilised 300,000 itself, losing 100,000 meaning it now faces some 450,000 Russian forces in the coming weeks and months.
• Referendums in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Lugansk to join the Russian Federation means future operations will significantly expand in intensity, quantity, and quality.
• This major escalation follows two very expensive offensives launched by Ukraine in what appears to have been an “all or nothing” move.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Masters of Deceit: The Government’s Propaganda of Mind Control & Brain Warfare | By John & Nisha Whitehead

The U.S. government has become a master of deceit. Indeed, with every passing day, it becomes painfully clear that this is not a government that can be trusted with your life, your loved ones, your livelihood or your freedoms.

www.rutherford.org

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Referendum in Donbass to result in voluntary reunification with Russia â Italian observer

"I want to stress that the developments in Donbass and other areas are by no means an annexation. This is voluntary and free reunification with Russia," Gianfranco Vestuto emphasized

tass.com

Italian observer says referendum in DPR satisfies peopleâs right to self-determination

Gianfranco Vestuto highlighted the friendly atmosphere at polling stations which he said was quite contrary to what Western media had been reporting

tass.com

German observer says people in Zaporozhye Region voting voluntarily

The German observer also discussed the voting with Melitopol Mayor Galina Danilchenko after she had cast her vote earlier on Saturday

tass.com

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

R_L,
Okay, let's address your points in turn . . .

Firstly, 'The Duran' are no more 'influencers' than the BBC or Bloomberg. They're not marketing anything, there's no product placement and they're not selling anything beyond the idea that the war is pointless and the way to resolve the conflict is through diplomacy - not weaponry.

Secondly, the 'leaked report' was not published by Bloomberg - why not? If, as they claim, they've seen it and can write about it, then why not provide a link to it so that their readers can see it for themselves to decide if they agree with Bloomberg's interpretation of it? That's a rhetorical question as we both know the answer.

Thirdly, reading the article, it's clear that they're trying to make something out of nothing because it's filled with statements like these (note my emphasis in blue). . .

• ". . . Russia may face a longer and deeper recession as the impact of US and European sanctions spreads . . ." In other words they're speculating.
• ". . .The document, the result of months of work. . ." This tells us it's old, out of date and based on what they anticipated the impact of sanctions might be months ago - not what they are in reality today.
• ". . .People familiar with the deliberations confirmed its authenticity . . ." Which people? I'm guessing one of them is you, R_L! ;-) If their source is remotely credible, they would tell us who these people are.
• ". . .The report estimates as many as 200,000 IT specialists may leave the country by 2025 . . ." More speculation based on nothing very much.
• That's just the first few paragraphs so you get the idea, I haven't the time to go through the entire article.

Bloomberg is a government mouthpiece and, as such, is desperate to make out that western sanctions are having the desired effect, even though a partially sighted five year old with learning difficulties can see they're having minimal impact on Russia, while having a devastating impact on the west. By way of personal anecdote, I was on a job last week for someone who works for Ribeye boats in Dartmouth, South Devon. Due to the sanctions, the company's lost two orders, between them worth over £1 million to provide tenders to super yachts owned by Russian oligarchs. That's local people in England whose jobs are going to be impacted by these pointless sanctions.

Lastly, I suggest you do what the authors of the Bloomberg article don't want you to do - which is to look with your own eyes and draw your own conclusions from the mountains of available evidence that says Russia is doing just fine thank you while the west is going down the pan. As we're on T2W, the two charts below tell you all you need to know.
Tim.

View attachment 321952

View attachment 321953

Firstly, you are (partially) correct. "The Duran" are beggarsopinionators preaching to their choir, and Bloomberg is a "financial, software, data, and media company." The Duran tries to make their readers agree with them, while Bloomberg, in this context, tries to report the news.

Secondly, If you wonder why Bloomberg doesn't publish the report or who they got it from, I suggest you avoid yachts, stairs, and windows on your next trip to Russia. Also, be careful about what you drink.

Thirdly, you apparently gave your opinon on the article before you looked at it. That makes you less of a master debater and more of a mass debater. And, of course the leaked economic report from Russia is going to discuss possible outcomes -- that's part of what economists do.

Lastly, as I posted here, the strong ruble does not mean the Russian economy is strong.


I end this post with a little more humor.

Putin is personally giving orders to his generals on the battlefield as dysfunction grows, according to US intel

In response to his battlefield setbacks in Ukraine, Putin delivered a rare televised address where he announced major military mobilization moves.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Zelensky paved way for declaration of referendums on joining Russia â Lavrov

Back in August 2021, Zelensky in an interview that if people living in eastern Ukraine consider themselves to be Russians, seek to speak Russian, then they should "get out to Russia" for the sake of their future, Russian Foreign Minister told

tass.com

Decision on special military operation triggered by Westâs inability to negotiate â Lavrov

Minister said out that "the operation is being conducted to execute the treaties on friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance between Russia and those republics in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter"

tass.com

Highlights of Lavrovâs speech: World order without twisting arms and UN protection

Situation in the international security area is rapidly deteriorating and instead of a fair dialogue, Russian Foreign Minister said

tass.com

 

[timsk]

Firstly, you are (partially) correct. "The Duran" are beggarsopinionators preaching to their choir, and Bloomberg is a "financial, software, data, and media company." The Duran tries to make their readers agree with them, while Bloomberg, in this context, tries to report the news.

R_L,
Again, I'll deal with your various confusions in turn. . .
Firstly, you appear to be confused about what 'The Duran' are. In one post they're 'influencers' - now they're 'beggars' (although you don't explain what they're begging for) and 'opinionators'. Which is it? Another rhetorical question of course because they're none of the above. What they are is a very popular geopolitical podcast with almost 300k subscribers whose output has been viewed over 75 million times. And that's why you don't like them: you're unable to address the points they make and so, instead, have to resort to shooting the messenger and ad hominem put downs. Not good R_L, not good at all. Oh, and by the way, there's no need to patronise me with links to definitions. In the highly unlikely event that you use a word I'm unfamiliar with, I'm perfectly capable of looking it up for myself.

Secondly, If you wonder why Bloomberg doesn't publish the report or who they got it from, I suggest you avoid yachts, stairs, and windows on your next trip to Russia. Also, be careful about what you drink.

You appear to be saying that the reason Bloomberg don't link to the report is because if they did I might suddenly be found dead under mysterious circumstances. Your thinking is so confused that I really don't know where to start! Suffice to say, we both know the only reason Bloomberg doesn't provide a link is because there's information in the report that either doesn't support - or more likely negates - the narrative they so desperately want their readers to believe.

Thirdly, you apparently gave your opinon on the article before you looked at it. That makes you less of a master debater and more of a mass debater. And, of course the leaked economic report from Russia is going to discuss possible outcomes -- that's part of what economists do.

Finally, you're right about something. Hurrah! I didn't need to read the article as my reference was to its title and description that you kindly included in your post. So, my point was - and remains - entirely valid.

Your point about the report discussing possible economic outcomes is correct. Yippee, we agree on something! However, what you - and Bloomberg - are ignoring is the bleedin' obvious. Namely, that the authors are hardly going to tell their Kremlin bosses and paymasters that Russia is completely immune to sanctions and, therefore, they needn't concern themselves about them at all. Just like SAGE advising the U.K. government over the pandemic, they're going to cover their ar$es and offer a worst case scenario so there can be no come back on them. That's just plain common sense and another reason why no one should read much - if anything at all - into this unpublished report that only Bloomberg has seen. Allegedly.

Lastly, as I posted here, the strong ruble does not mean the Russian economy is strong.

Strength (and weakness) has precious little meaning on its own. It needs to be put into context and be compared to something else in order for it to be useful and informative. When compared to the U.K. economy, along with many other western economies, the Russian economy is performing much better. Ergo, it is strong. That's not my opinion, it's a simple statement of fact.
Tim.

 

[new_trader]

"while Bloomberg, in this context, tries to report the news." <-- This is easily the funniest (most disturbing?) thing I have read in this thread so far. The MSM lackeys are beyond help if this is a genuine belief...

@timsk Did you mention that it is the Biden administration that is redefining what 'Recession' means?

 

[new_trader]

These are the kinds of morons you get trying to report the news on MSM and Bloomberg is absolutely no exception. You can infer the intelligence of the target audience.