Ukraine invasion

Supporting Ukraine of today (and the last years) is supporting Ukronazis, there is no alternative interpretation.
I have a question for you.
Has Putin invaded Ukraine ...
  1. to remove the neonazis?
  2. to prevent it to join NATO?
Let's admit this guy likes Bandera, has he committed any nazi actions?
Has he promoted nazi laws?
 
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I have a question for you.
Has Putin invaded Ukraine ...
  1. to remove the neonazis?
  2. to prevent it to join NATO?
Both - and to end the war in Donbas.

Joining NATO was and is against the agreement for Ukraine to start existing as an independent country beginning of the 90s, to rule that out was one of the basic conditions.

To remove neonazis is the result of the analysis for the reason of the Donbas killings where the Ukranian forces denied to shoot Ukrainians in 2014. There are several videos where the Ukrainian soldiers removed the bolts from their weapons when they arrived in Donbas. Then the Ukrainian government were replaces by the Neonazi batallions and mercenaries.

Ukrainians didn't shoot Ukrainians, Nazis and mercenaries did and do.
 
Joining NATO was and is against the agreement for Ukraine to start existing as an independent country beginning of the 90s, to rule that out was one of the basic conditions.
Do you have any reference for this?

What do you think about the Wagner group?
Is Putin credible as nazi hunter?
 
To remove neonazis is the result of the analysis for the reason of the Donbas killings where the Ukranian forces denied to shoot Ukrainians in 2014. There are several videos where the Ukrainian soldiers removed the bolts from their weapons when they arrived in Donbas. Then the Ukrainian government were replaces by the Neonazi batallions and mercenaries.
It was the only way to keep the land and prevent it to fall under russian control, a countermeasure to mercenaries and criminals sent by Putin.
 
Do you have any reference for this?

What do you think about the Wagner group?
Is Putin credible as nazi hunter?
The Ukrainian SSR solemnly declares its intention of becoming a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs and adheres to three nuclear free principles: to accept, to produce and to purchase no nuclear weapons. (1990)

Additional there was to regard the partition of the USSR Black sea fleet where Russia took most of the ships. It stayed in Crimea.

In the beginning of the war the Wagner group was not in Ukraine. Russia intentionally ruled them out and called Chechen fighters. I don't know reliable sources that they were involved in the Donbas war 2014 to February 2022. Reference in wikipedia was added after the Euromaidan by the "Euromaidan press" which can be faked later.
About the Euromaidan you also find a whitewashing in the Englisch wikipedia removing the reference to the Nazi symbols which are visible on a lot of pictures (OUN flags, Azov and other stuff including the Bandera picture as Nazi symbol), which are still listed in the German wikipedia about the Euromaidan.
 
Supporting Ukraine of today (and the last years) is supporting Ukronazis, there is no alternative interpretation.
But I doubt you are interested to find it out.
Probably I underestimated nazism in Ukraine and what I see is that nazism there is above average and more tolerated than in other countries.

Having said that what I see is not enough to define Ukraine a nazi country or ruled by nazis.
Poroshenko was less honest and more nazi than Zelensky so the trend the right one.
I agree with the conclusions of this article:
Far right problems but no antisemitism.

Ukraine with its flaws is still much better than Transnistria, LPR DPR , Abcasia and South Ossetia. Exporting kleptocracy is even worse than exporting democracy.
 
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Far right problems but no antisemitism.
That does not mean there is no immense Nazi problem.

Our problem is that we always see Hitler's government and their crimes when we read Nazi and the worst and best known crime was the Holocaust killing millions of people because of their religion.

The main point is facism together with nationalism.
That has nothing to do with the religion and the Jews.
It is completely wrong to rule out Nazism because Zelensky and his oligarch who stole 4 billion USD from Ukraine are Jews.

Hitler selected the Jews, the Ukronazis the Russians or Russian Ukranians.
The rest is the same inhuman attitude against a group of peolple outside of the own ones.
That does not whitewash them from being Nazis with the same cruelty.

Israel has a problem with Ukraine because Bandera and his troops killed (ten)thousand of Jews and more than 100.000 Poles. Both countries cannot tolerate any cult about Bandera.
Clearing the collaborator Bandera of his crimes is the same thing Holocaust deniers do: an attempt to falsify history.
 
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Lets see how this gets explained away.

Typical amateurish fake story. Pictures shown have no evidence.

Better stuff is hidden in the following videos:






 
Better stuff is hidden in the following videos:
Assuming English is not your native language, it's a common mistake to switch the subject and object.;)
This may have looked like a conga line, but the party's permanently over for these civilians.
russians_in_bucha.gif
 


Roberts Is The Man Behind The Curtain


 

It's worse than that. The world is run by lizards.:eek:🦖
 

President Vladimir Putin has made a bullish speech to top Russian MPs, daring the West to have a go at defeating Moscow on the battlefield.
"What can you say, let them try," he jibed.
The Russian leader also claimed his side had barely started its offensive in in earnest.
 
I'm very happy that Russia has got itself into a mess. I hope that Putin and his cabal of supporters lose all credibility within the country and are deposed and dealt with according to the rule of law. They are kleptocratic gangsters after all.

The west's response to the Ukraine war is not a US initiative, it is a broad coalition of support coordinated by the United Nations. It should be no surprise that the US and the UK are on the same side as each other and the UN, and that Putin's autocracy is on the other side. Whereas the war is not ours to fight, nor the UN's, we would be failing in our own commitments to democratic principles if we did not support Ukraine in its bid for survival and hopefully development into a much more democratic nation state than the poor effort they have achieved so far.

The future global implications of Russian military annexation of a neighbouring sovereign state would be horrendous.

But what would you prefer the outcome in Ukraine to be?
I think this has more to do with war in Ukraine than uk politics
@Atilla @tomorton
 
tomorton said:
I'm very happy that Russia has got itself into a mess. I hope that Putin and his cabal of supporters lose all credibility within the country and are deposed and dealt with according to the rule of law. They are kleptocratic gangsters after all.

The west's response to the Ukraine war is not a US initiative, it is a broad coalition of support coordinated by the United Nations. It should be no surprise that the US and the UK are on the same side as each other and the UN, and that Putin's autocracy is on the other side. Whereas the war is not ours to fight, nor the UN's, we would be failing in our own commitments to democratic principles if we did not support Ukraine in its bid for survival and hopefully development into a much more democratic nation state than the poor effort they have achieved so far.

The future global implications of Russian military annexation of a neighbouring sovereign state would be horrendous.

But what would you prefer the outcome in Ukraine to be?

Disappointed to hear you are happy about mess in Ukraine. I would not frame it as Russia getting it self into a mess. More a case of defending her position as the US did with Cuba. Contrary to all assurances US and UK with the weaponised tool NATO is just playing silly buggers as they always do.

How other countries manage themselves are not our issues. As said before the objective is to democratise other countries so that the West can manipulate and rig systems in their own favour by corrupting, buying and tilting events in their favour.

In short to answer your question, Russia is not Europe's enemy. Russian supply of gas and oil and commodities improves all our position through economic trade and opening up of borders. The oligarchs spend their billions all over the UK and EU. Shell and POLYgen invest in Russia and pay dividends in the UK. Everyone is happy.

As for Ukraine, they too have become a tool. A proxy stick to beat Russia with. However, it's gone horribly wrong for the West imo. EU, US and the UK all in a bit of a pickle. The fact that the situation has got this far, taunting and antagonising the situ is crazy.

The Dnieper river serves as a good geometrical divide for now. Either way Ukraine as before must remain neutral much like Switzerland and Austria. Rule out membership of NATO.

I'd like to see both Ukraine and Russia in the union. It would make the EU much stronger and better, opening up a massive market place as well as securing all people with food and energy resources.

We can continue to trade with the US and everyone is happy. I see no freaking reason for any wars. Just economic trade and good business. Open borders, love peace and harmony. Russia is not our enemy and does not pose a risk to Europe imho.
 
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