donaldduke
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Dont waste your money.
The turtle rules can be found free online.
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/files/turtlerules.pdf
Also consider the book
Way of the Turtle: The Secret Methods that Turned Ordinary People into Legendary Traders: Amazon.ca: Curtis Faith: Books
The book is written by the same person who wrote the free PDF (Curtis Faith).
Curtis Faith is a real Turtle, part of the trading group Richard Dennis setup.
Mike Covel is an ex vitamin salesman who now sells expensive trading snakeoil.
The turtle rules can be found free online.
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/files/turtlerules.pdf
Also consider the book
Way of the Turtle: The Secret Methods that Turned Ordinary People into Legendary Traders: Amazon.ca: Curtis Faith: Books
The book is written by the same person who wrote the free PDF (Curtis Faith).
Curtis Faith is a real Turtle, part of the trading group Richard Dennis setup.
Mike Covel is an ex vitamin salesman who now sells expensive trading snakeoil.
Rhody Trader
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Be aware, though, that none of the Turtle stuff (as useful on the system development and testing side of things as the Faith book is) is what you'd consider an "A to Z tutorial". For that you'll need to look to something more general.
Duke you forgot to mention a few things about Faith:
http://www.turtletrader.com/curtis-faith-performance.html
You were aware that his recent money management firm ended in a CFTC investigation whereby the firm was permanently barred? The investigation revealed that Faith's firm was managing (and losing) money using Donchian's 50 year old system AND an employee was stealing client money to buy a barbie doll collection off of eBay (can't make this up). So if this was all about "free" rules we would have never had Turtle failures, but clearly we have had a few. Readers who actually want to know the complete Turtle story, from multiple views and from Turtles who have actually had success, can find it here in my book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0061241717/trendfollowin-20
In terms of the new DVDs we started providing to clients in Sep 2009 those are all interviews with top trend following traders I personally conducted. How long form interviews with some of the best trend following traders on the planet are considered "snakeoil" I am not exactly sure! These interviews are unrelated to the Turtles:
http://www.trendfollowing.com/order.html
Here is some recent feedback:
http://www.michaelcovel.com/2009/11/04/inspiration-from-top-traders/
If you have questions, or if anyone does, I can be reached personally via phone or email:
http://www.michaelcovel.com/contact-michael-covel
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donaldduke
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Covel you know **** all about Trading.
You should have stuck to selling vitamins on the web, we have enough snake oil vendors in this industry already, we dont need any more.
http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/4_2712_Ext
You should have stuck to selling vitamins on the web, we have enough snake oil vendors in this industry already, we dont need any more.
http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/4_2712_Ext
Duke, if I was in your position, not with much of an argument, I guess I would act out too. For readers who may not be familiar with my work here are some links that they can check out:
1. My Book #1: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013702018X/trendfollowin-20
2. My Book #2: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0061241717/trendfollowin-20
3. My Film: http://www.brokemovie.com
4. Recent Magazine Interview: http://www.michaelcovel.com/pdfs/yte-covel.pdf
5. Reviews: http://www.michaelcovel.com/endorsements/
1. My Book #1: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013702018X/trendfollowin-20
2. My Book #2: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0061241717/trendfollowin-20
3. My Film: http://www.brokemovie.com
4. Recent Magazine Interview: http://www.michaelcovel.com/pdfs/yte-covel.pdf
5. Reviews: http://www.michaelcovel.com/endorsements/
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donaldduke
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Bollox.
Post some links to where we can find your personal trading results for at least the last 3 years and i might take you seriously.
Scratch that, can you even provide 3 months?
this implies you think there's something wrong with donchian's/50 year old system.
1. what's wrong with donchian channels as a breakout entry/exit trend following rules?
2. what's wrong with 50 y/o systems? you have a quote of JWH saying he hasn't changed his system in over 20 years...?
In the case of Acceleration Capital (Faith's firm) it was not until after a performance crash and an employee embezzling client money did the government investigation reveal the trading method being used (Donchian). So Acceleration Capital was raising client money off the Turtle name (Faith's) and supposed new research and techniques, but the reality was something else. Those government depositions are useful reading for people looking to see behind the scenes.
I dont want to sound too controversial but I think everyone of us are in the market to earn money and so is Michele Covel. So what if he earns money by teaching people some rules.
I would like to prove my point here by giving an analogy of all the doctors in this world, they are not really the first ones who developed a cure for any desease but still they cure people because they have studied medicine and knows the rules well.
In the same way even if Michele Covel was a Vitamin saleman there is noway you can say that he couldnt have learnt Turtle Trading. And once learnt he couldnt teach others the skill he learnt.
Thats exactly the point Richard Dennis wanted to prove when we made the bet initially "Trading can be learnt"
I would like to prove my point here by giving an analogy of all the doctors in this world, they are not really the first ones who developed a cure for any desease but still they cure people because they have studied medicine and knows the rules well.
In the same way even if Michele Covel was a Vitamin saleman there is noway you can say that he couldnt have learnt Turtle Trading. And once learnt he couldnt teach others the skill he learnt.
Thats exactly the point Richard Dennis wanted to prove when we made the bet initially "Trading can be learnt"
the hare
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Because it's the equivelent of someone who is completely innumerate, attempting to teach calculus at university.
As a prospective university student would you happily hand over course fee's knowing your tutor was incapable of understanding materials that you yourself understood at the age of four ?
The key point really is that if you really must fall for the turtles hype then you might as well buy Curtis Faiths book on the grounds that despite his failings, he at least walked the walk, and he at least has a basic understanding of what trading is actually about.
Learning to trade is a journey. One thing I leaned along the was was that all the best knowledge came from the most unsuspecting people\websites\places\books. I am not advocating buying anything outright.
Do your homework on the material, see if you can source it free, if you feel you need it then go for it. You can't put a price on knowledge. My journey involved books, courses,mentoring,working with various methods....
I did that for years and remained unsuccessful while my mind was solving the enigma. One day I stumbled on what must have been the final piece and that is where my trading skills started to consistently extract profit.
Don't just throw away the chance to learn something even if it costs money. Just make sure you don't blindly buy something. Seeking knowledge and working it on the Markets will give you a good chance of solving your enigma to making profits. Just because someone sells knowledge doesn't make them or the knowledge a fraud or useless. Sure there are scammers out there but luckily they are easy to spot. Just because universities sell degrees doesn't make them scammers or not useful. Think about it
Do your homework on the material, see if you can source it free, if you feel you need it then go for it. You can't put a price on knowledge. My journey involved books, courses,mentoring,working with various methods....
I did that for years and remained unsuccessful while my mind was solving the enigma. One day I stumbled on what must have been the final piece and that is where my trading skills started to consistently extract profit.
Don't just throw away the chance to learn something even if it costs money. Just make sure you don't blindly buy something. Seeking knowledge and working it on the Markets will give you a good chance of solving your enigma to making profits. Just because someone sells knowledge doesn't make them or the knowledge a fraud or useless. Sure there are scammers out there but luckily they are easy to spot. Just because universities sell degrees doesn't make them scammers or not useful. Think about it
davidh1819
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omg it all makes sense now your a genius! Who would have thought of that? its so true!
Plenty of marketers selling trading related crap. See it doesn't matter what you sell the selling rules and strategies are still the same.
So if trading was banned tomorrow the marketers wouldn't care, they'd just shift the selling to weight loss or hair loss or buy-to-let courses (get rich quick type) etc.
How to easily spot a marketer? Simple, a good rule of thumb in the trading business is the more something is marketed the worse value it will be for the customer......
Real time example: All those crappy trading courses you see for £4,000, NO £2,000 if you sign up today! Believe me, only marketers advertise on the Radio.........
Anti-vendor posts are boring, patronising and antagonistic. People sell what others want to buy. Nobody has to buy anything. It doesn't matter if what they buy is cheaper or even free somewhere else, they have their reasons to buy and if their reasoning isn't rational (to our minds at least) that's ther affair. And it isn't criminal behaviour for a vendor to make a massive profit on a sale, it's capitalism.
But it is criminal behaviour to make false claims with a view to making a gain. Read the 2006 Fraud Act for a start. A very good example would be to falsify a trading statement and then use this to pretend you are profitable trader. Another example would be to claim to be a world Champion when you're not.
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