Mr. Charts
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Many pearls of wisdom here.
The bottom line is that generally speaking, you can give someone the tools, show them how to use those tools but then it's really up to them.
I'm very fortunate because although I do screen those people who want me to coach them and occasionally refuse to do so, by and large they are a self-selected and highly motivated group of individuals before I coach them.
That makes it very easy for me ;-)
The bottom line is that generally speaking, you can give someone the tools, show them how to use those tools but then it's really up to them.
I'm very fortunate because although I do screen those people who want me to coach them and occasionally refuse to do so, by and large they are a self-selected and highly motivated group of individuals before I coach them.
That makes it very easy for me ;-)
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John B said:
I've just copied the following paragraph from a website; the article is credited with being authored by you. But perhaps £1,000 to £2,000 plus TAX-FREE every month isn't a 'large sum of money'.
quote
By John S Bartlett, Professional Trader & Instructor
To succeed at spread betting, you need discipline, dedication and control. Following a short learning curve even a complete financial novice has the potential to make £1,000 to £2,000 plus TAX-FREE every month. And believe me, once you start to reap rewards like this, you will quickly become ‘hooked’!
unquote
reactor
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the truth is if you do have a strategy for making money from the markets, you wouldn't tell others.
anticipation is the game at the end of the day. TA, FA are just tools. you can only beat the market if you are good at anticipating where it will go next.
and as a reminder, the floor traders are the most successful in the history of stockmarkets.
anticipation is the game at the end of the day. TA, FA are just tools. you can only beat the market if you are good at anticipating where it will go next.
and as a reminder, the floor traders are the most successful in the history of stockmarkets.
Skimbleshanks,
Whether rightly or wrongly, I believe John was referring to claims such as this, from good ol' Vince's website, when referring to "large sums of money":
"If the idea of making £400+ per day Tax Free, Trading World Financial Markets for less than one hour a day from home sounds impossible, then let me prove you wrong and show you how you can copy me and do the same within less than 30 days from now starting from scratch and regardless of your background"
I also noted the word 'potential' in the second quotation that featured in your post...
Might it be wise to 'close' this thread before it erupts into yet another 'John B is the devil incarnate' Vs 'no, he is only guilty of a little poorly worded advertising' type debacle?
Whether rightly or wrongly, I believe John was referring to claims such as this, from good ol' Vince's website, when referring to "large sums of money":
"If the idea of making £400+ per day Tax Free, Trading World Financial Markets for less than one hour a day from home sounds impossible, then let me prove you wrong and show you how you can copy me and do the same within less than 30 days from now starting from scratch and regardless of your background"
I also noted the word 'potential' in the second quotation that featured in your post...
Might it be wise to 'close' this thread before it erupts into yet another 'John B is the devil incarnate' Vs 'no, he is only guilty of a little poorly worded advertising' type debacle?
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JohnB used this thread to try to promote his fee-paying course. If he does not wish to be challenged on anything he writes, then he should not post it in the first place. That applies to me and to everyone else who posts.
Perhaps if JohnB were to stop the continual advertising (most of it has to be edited out or removed) and post something meaningful on actual trading then it would be appreciated by all I'm sure.
Perhaps if JohnB were to stop the continual advertising (most of it has to be edited out or removed) and post something meaningful on actual trading then it would be appreciated by all I'm sure.
Trader333 ,
* ...has he spent X years in the real finnacial industry , hopefully as a prop trader or equal to
You mean people like Mr Stanzioni then ? *
No, actually I don't . I have no clue what he did prior to his guru phase.
to me , if you examine his trading statements that he publishes , you will see that his record is not as good as you may think. yes , he may have a few big winners , but the point is : what is the RISK he has to take to get these winners ! from what I can see, based on the stakes he takes:what the bet factor would be and from that roughly what his base capital is . The net risk / reward on capital is someting like 1:1 , like I said , this is casino style . not for me .
What I do know is this - just because you have been in the markets before don't mean squat , you have to have as I said the other qualities ¡e. a provable winning record over a reasonable time frame etc . A guy who lost pots of money in a dealing room ( and I know a few of these - lot more common that is let on ) cannot then come out and claim to be an expert , sorry that just doesn't gel , you wouldn't get a guy who has crashed his last 4 cars to teach you to drive would you ? therefore I find it hard to accept learning to win in the markets from net losers , whatever the reason be it bad luck or so called ill discipline . that's just me.
The same thing applies to coaches - do they have all the listed criteria ? have they produced consistent winning traders ?
RogerM ,
Actually I don't have any expectations of courses , I am not looking for one . And I think that contrary to what you say winning trading can be taught - see the turtles etc, it is just that no such course of quality has come on the market yet .
I don¡¦t buy this * you can get all the training you need free from the net *. Sorry - if so , then we would have the majority of people here as net winners , and judging from the high level of complaints here , it ¡s safe to say the reverse is true .
You might get all the basic stuff free ie. Charting explanations, money management , a little psychology etc . but this won't make you a winning trader , and neither will going on a course that repeats all this to you .
Like the old adage goes :
¡§ no such thing as a free lunch ¡§
Henry ,
Yep you are right , but then again , I was trying not to be pedantic
Skim ,
I do agree. I think people are entitled to ask questions about the claims on any course , especially the fee paying ones .
* ...has he spent X years in the real finnacial industry , hopefully as a prop trader or equal to
You mean people like Mr Stanzioni then ? *
No, actually I don't . I have no clue what he did prior to his guru phase.
to me , if you examine his trading statements that he publishes , you will see that his record is not as good as you may think. yes , he may have a few big winners , but the point is : what is the RISK he has to take to get these winners ! from what I can see, based on the stakes he takes:what the bet factor would be and from that roughly what his base capital is . The net risk / reward on capital is someting like 1:1 , like I said , this is casino style . not for me .
What I do know is this - just because you have been in the markets before don't mean squat , you have to have as I said the other qualities ¡e. a provable winning record over a reasonable time frame etc . A guy who lost pots of money in a dealing room ( and I know a few of these - lot more common that is let on ) cannot then come out and claim to be an expert , sorry that just doesn't gel , you wouldn't get a guy who has crashed his last 4 cars to teach you to drive would you ? therefore I find it hard to accept learning to win in the markets from net losers , whatever the reason be it bad luck or so called ill discipline . that's just me.
The same thing applies to coaches - do they have all the listed criteria ? have they produced consistent winning traders ?
RogerM ,
Actually I don't have any expectations of courses , I am not looking for one . And I think that contrary to what you say winning trading can be taught - see the turtles etc, it is just that no such course of quality has come on the market yet .
I don¡¦t buy this * you can get all the training you need free from the net *. Sorry - if so , then we would have the majority of people here as net winners , and judging from the high level of complaints here , it ¡s safe to say the reverse is true .
You might get all the basic stuff free ie. Charting explanations, money management , a little psychology etc . but this won't make you a winning trader , and neither will going on a course that repeats all this to you .
Like the old adage goes :
¡§ no such thing as a free lunch ¡§
Henry ,
Yep you are right , but then again , I was trying not to be pedantic
Skim ,
I do agree. I think people are entitled to ask questions about the claims on any course , especially the fee paying ones .
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Trader333
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mma,
The only point I was making was that you dont necessarly have to be a great performer yourself to be able to coach others how to perform at very high levels.
For example
Has Sir ALex Fergusson ever played football to the level of the team he coaches ?
Did Cus d'Amato ever box to the level he coached Tyson to ?
Has Jean Todt ever been able to drive a Ferrari into a winning postion in a Grand Prix ?
The answer to all of these is no but they know how to create the circumstances or coach others to achieve that performance and in my view the same can apply to trading.
Paul
The only point I was making was that you dont necessarly have to be a great performer yourself to be able to coach others how to perform at very high levels.
For example
Has Sir ALex Fergusson ever played football to the level of the team he coaches ?
Did Cus d'Amato ever box to the level he coached Tyson to ?
Has Jean Todt ever been able to drive a Ferrari into a winning postion in a Grand Prix ?
The answer to all of these is no but they know how to create the circumstances or coach others to achieve that performance and in my view the same can apply to trading.
Paul
temporarilylight
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Great response Trader333.....
Especially as Im a Man U fan, and Mike Tyson is my favourite boxer of all time. (amazing in 80's)
temp
Especially as Im a Man U fan, and Mike Tyson is my favourite boxer of all time. (amazing in 80's)
temp
barjon
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Once again I agree with T333, but mainly so far as the foundation
of technical systems are concerned.
I would be willing to bet my house and furniture that if one of the
consistently successful traders passed on their system to all
4500 T2W members then only 500 or so members would make
consistent profits out of it. Why? Because success depends on
each persons individual personality, emotional response etc.
A good technical system is necessary to provide strong
foundations. The eventual house depends on the mind set in
applying that system. To use the sporting analogy, there are hundreds of professional golfers who have very strong
techniques but only a few who win consistently. That's why
they've started employing mind coaches.
good trading
jon
of technical systems are concerned.
I would be willing to bet my house and furniture that if one of the
consistently successful traders passed on their system to all
4500 T2W members then only 500 or so members would make
consistent profits out of it. Why? Because success depends on
each persons individual personality, emotional response etc.
A good technical system is necessary to provide strong
foundations. The eventual house depends on the mind set in
applying that system. To use the sporting analogy, there are hundreds of professional golfers who have very strong
techniques but only a few who win consistently. That's why
they've started employing mind coaches.
good trading
jon
333,
you have answered your own question and reinforced my point.
I cut & paste : * The same thing applies to coaches - do they have all the listed criteria ? have they produced consistent winning traders ? *
to wit : Sir Alex already has a long winning with Aberdeen long before his MU days , anyone wanting his services can have this and his MU record as testimony .
D'amato already coached ex world champ Floyd Patterson long before Tyson came around ( and I do know something about boxing ) , and thus he would have both records to show any critic , if he were still alive .
These are winning records from a coaches POV .
sorry , you may not like it , but those who talk the talk must also be able to walk it, one way or another ! as iron Mike would say.
barjon ,
your distinction between technical and non technical systems is dare I say irrelevant. A good system / method or whatever you want to call it accounts for ALL aspects of trading including emotional control etc .
Bottom line - a prospective student has got nothing to lose and all to gain by asking such questions - so why not ask them , silly not to !
you have answered your own question and reinforced my point.
I cut & paste : * The same thing applies to coaches - do they have all the listed criteria ? have they produced consistent winning traders ? *
to wit : Sir Alex already has a long winning with Aberdeen long before his MU days , anyone wanting his services can have this and his MU record as testimony .
D'amato already coached ex world champ Floyd Patterson long before Tyson came around ( and I do know something about boxing ) , and thus he would have both records to show any critic , if he were still alive .
These are winning records from a coaches POV .
sorry , you may not like it , but those who talk the talk must also be able to walk it, one way or another ! as iron Mike would say.
barjon ,
your distinction between technical and non technical systems is dare I say irrelevant. A good system / method or whatever you want to call it accounts for ALL aspects of trading including emotional control etc .
Bottom line - a prospective student has got nothing to lose and all to gain by asking such questions - so why not ask them , silly not to !
<i>These are winning records from a coaches POV .
sorry , you may not like it , but those who talk the talk must also be able to walk it, one way or another ! as iron Mike would say. </i>
But isn't that the point? I'd agree I would never sign up with a coach without knowing that he had students who were successful and credited it to him, but from a logical point of view given the following two coaches to choose from:
Coach 1 - a list as long as your arm of previous students willing to give him reccomendations and show how much they made following his methods but self-admits that he is personally crap at trading as he doesn't have the discipline and can't actually follow through what he teaches; or
Coach 2 - decades of taking money out of the market but no experience at all in teaching it to anyone else,
I'd probably go for Coach 1. You are right though, a proven record is important but the record as a trader would seem to be far less important than his record as a coach.
wysi
sorry , you may not like it , but those who talk the talk must also be able to walk it, one way or another ! as iron Mike would say. </i>
But isn't that the point? I'd agree I would never sign up with a coach without knowing that he had students who were successful and credited it to him, but from a logical point of view given the following two coaches to choose from:
Coach 1 - a list as long as your arm of previous students willing to give him reccomendations and show how much they made following his methods but self-admits that he is personally crap at trading as he doesn't have the discipline and can't actually follow through what he teaches; or
Coach 2 - decades of taking money out of the market but no experience at all in teaching it to anyone else,
I'd probably go for Coach 1. You are right though, a proven record is important but the record as a trader would seem to be far less important than his record as a coach.
wysi
wysinawyg,
* I'd probably go for Coach 1. You are right though, a proven record is important but the record as a trader would seem to be far less important than his record as a coach. *
thank you , you agree with me since I said :
* The same thing applies to coaches - do they have all the listed criteria ? have they produced consistent winning traders ? *
although I personally would find both your examples inadequate , there are always winning traders who can teach as well , it's a question of price and availability.
* I'd probably go for Coach 1. You are right though, a proven record is important but the record as a trader would seem to be far less important than his record as a coach. *
thank you , you agree with me since I said :
* The same thing applies to coaches - do they have all the listed criteria ? have they produced consistent winning traders ? *
although I personally would find both your examples inadequate , there are always winning traders who can teach as well , it's a question of price and availability.
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The chap who mentored me was in fact from the Coach 2 category - obsessively demanding, rude, and just generally very difficult ... but what he taught me is priceless, and for that I shall always be truly grateful.
John B
I see you have now deleted my personal profile from your earlier post.
I have no objection to the display of that information as its
already in the public domain.
But I am not at all sure that it demonstrates the attitude that I expected from a professional.
Nor does the planting of negative votes in childish retaliation against people who cannot bring themselves to agree with you, help to convey the maturity one would like to see in a teacher.
I see you have now deleted my personal profile from your earlier post.
I have no objection to the display of that information as its
already in the public domain.
But I am not at all sure that it demonstrates the attitude that I expected from a professional.
Nor does the planting of negative votes in childish retaliation against people who cannot bring themselves to agree with you, help to convey the maturity one would like to see in a teacher.
mma,
Well I agree with the second bit of what you said about producing winning traders, but your original list seemed only concerned with whether they could trade their own account and didn't even mention whether or not they were actually any good at training. If you've backtracked on that then we definitely agree, otherwise I think there's still a bit of difference in emphasis between us
wysi
mma said:
Well I agree with the second bit of what you said about producing winning traders, but your original list seemed only concerned with whether they could trade their own account and didn't even mention whether or not they were actually any good at training. If you've backtracked on that then we definitely agree, otherwise I think there's still a bit of difference in emphasis between us
wysi
