I am a bit confused and dubious about the real intentions of all these training courses that claim to be able to help us make large sums of money cos i just think if they r so good at trading why don't they just use that knowledge to make all the money they can from just trading and if they still feel the need to help other ppl beat the market then offer free advice (lol!). Maybe ppl like JohnB or Naz can enlighten me more
Hi grubs,
I run occasional training courses in basic Technical Analysis, a few on the site have attended and hopefully both enjoyed and learned from the experience.
My intentions are simple, I enjoy teaching and as a full-time trader it gives me an avenue through which to meet other people and to have the satisfaction of , hopefully, helping them with their trading. Trading itself is essentially a boring business. I have been some form of instructor or other for the past 22 years, so it is kind of engraved in the soul!
In the financial 'world' I don't agree with the 'buy my system and make a million' type courses - as you say if they were that good, then they would be doing it themselves and flying you for free to one of their Bermudan Islands for a chat!
What I do believe is that people have to find a style of trading that suits their personality, time/life constraints and which provides enjoyment, interest and a challenge as well as - hopefully - some profit. To this end I try to offer a basic set of tools (in this case basic Technical Analysis) from which they can continue to develop their own trading 'persona', whether it be as an agressive 'gunslinger' scalping the markets or a more sedate end of day longer term approach.
I think the others that frequent this site have a similar approach, they are offering to demonstrate a technique/ methodology or how to use a specific tool, at the end of the day the individuals that attend the various courses may come away from them either delighted that they have found something that 'fits' or at the very least with a better knowledge of something that they may or may not be able to include in their own style.
I run occasional training courses in basic Technical Analysis, a few on the site have attended and hopefully both enjoyed and learned from the experience.
My intentions are simple, I enjoy teaching and as a full-time trader it gives me an avenue through which to meet other people and to have the satisfaction of , hopefully, helping them with their trading. Trading itself is essentially a boring business. I have been some form of instructor or other for the past 22 years, so it is kind of engraved in the soul!
In the financial 'world' I don't agree with the 'buy my system and make a million' type courses - as you say if they were that good, then they would be doing it themselves and flying you for free to one of their Bermudan Islands for a chat!
What I do believe is that people have to find a style of trading that suits their personality, time/life constraints and which provides enjoyment, interest and a challenge as well as - hopefully - some profit. To this end I try to offer a basic set of tools (in this case basic Technical Analysis) from which they can continue to develop their own trading 'persona', whether it be as an agressive 'gunslinger' scalping the markets or a more sedate end of day longer term approach.
I think the others that frequent this site have a similar approach, they are offering to demonstrate a technique/ methodology or how to use a specific tool, at the end of the day the individuals that attend the various courses may come away from them either delighted that they have found something that 'fits' or at the very least with a better knowledge of something that they may or may not be able to include in their own style.
Trader333
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I think that you will find, by the postings on these boards, who is considered to be making questionnable claims and who is not. In the cases of TBS, Naz and Mr Charts you just dont get the level of criticism that others get. That is because those they coach are very quick to defend them because they know and have seen that what is claimed is really happening.
Why do they coach ? well I would think it is a combination of enjoying meeting new traders, breaking up what can sometimes be a tedious activity and seeing the results of their coaching in better and more profitable trading.
Why do they charge if they can make enough from trading ? Well one reason is that if you are coaching you are not focusing your entire energy on trading so payment for coaching offsets the money not gained from trading whilst coaching. The other reason is to stop people who are not really interested in trading and just trying it because they have nothing better to do. If you pay for something it is because you value it and I have had occasions myself where I have taught people the principles of successful project management FOC and it was a total disaster. I got all sorts of idiots who only came because it was free and once I started charging the idiots disappeared and I was able to add real value to those who genuinely wanted to learn.
Paul
Why do they coach ? well I would think it is a combination of enjoying meeting new traders, breaking up what can sometimes be a tedious activity and seeing the results of their coaching in better and more profitable trading.
Why do they charge if they can make enough from trading ? Well one reason is that if you are coaching you are not focusing your entire energy on trading so payment for coaching offsets the money not gained from trading whilst coaching. The other reason is to stop people who are not really interested in trading and just trying it because they have nothing better to do. If you pay for something it is because you value it and I have had occasions myself where I have taught people the principles of successful project management FOC and it was a total disaster. I got all sorts of idiots who only came because it was free and once I started charging the idiots disappeared and I was able to add real value to those who genuinely wanted to learn.
Paul
TBS, Naz, Mr Charts and for that matter Sunseeker have clearly demonstrated on these boards a deep understanding of their respective areas of expertise. This has obviously taken them many years to learn themselves and they are good enough to offer the value of that experience to others. They are teaching techniques and don't make simplistic claims that anyone attending will instantly become an expert and make loads of easy money. Clearly that all depends on the individual. You can show anyone how to make money, whether they do or not is entirely down to them.
Others, unfortunately, have demonstrated that trading is not really for them and selling dreams to naive newbies is a much more secure source of income.
Others, unfortunately, have demonstrated that trading is not really for them and selling dreams to naive newbies is a much more secure source of income.
newbies should checkout www.bullbearband.com. great teacher.
C
Carnivore
lessons learned
I have enjoyed the book available from spreadtradingsecrets. It gave me a good start to trading and I am actually making some money by follwoing the system.
Importantly, the book teaches you as well as disclosing a system so that you can become a better trader through understanding not just following.
Others have said it is a bit boring because it is a long term trend following system but it works well for me.
I have enjoyed the book available from spreadtradingsecrets. It gave me a good start to trading and I am actually making some money by follwoing the system.
Importantly, the book teaches you as well as disclosing a system so that you can become a better trader through understanding not just following.
Others have said it is a bit boring because it is a long term trend following system but it works well for me.
Trader333
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Naz
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Grubs,
I started by standing up at a big investor show and saying "You know what if you're trying to make a living day trading in the Uk you've got problems".I mentioned lots of those problems and people agreed and it took me ages to answer the questions.
Then people pestered me to show them how the US daytraders worked and later so did the company i traded with and thats how it started.
When i started writing on this web site about the Nasdaq only Chartman and myself posted on the US trading side of this web site.Now two years later loads of people are day trading the Nasdaq.
I'm a trader and i believe that the US is the place to daytrade.My main intention is to show others how US traders work.Its not for everyone i know,but for many it something they've been searching for.
As others have said good trading is boring and its just fantastic to train others and meet so many interesting people who have the same love of the markets like i do.
Yes sometimes i do think i'll pack up the training.Nothing is worse than training someone and wishing you were trading,but thats life and at the end of the day i enjoy it.
I started by standing up at a big investor show and saying "You know what if you're trying to make a living day trading in the Uk you've got problems".I mentioned lots of those problems and people agreed and it took me ages to answer the questions.
Then people pestered me to show them how the US daytraders worked and later so did the company i traded with and thats how it started.
When i started writing on this web site about the Nasdaq only Chartman and myself posted on the US trading side of this web site.Now two years later loads of people are day trading the Nasdaq.
I'm a trader and i believe that the US is the place to daytrade.My main intention is to show others how US traders work.Its not for everyone i know,but for many it something they've been searching for.
As others have said good trading is boring and its just fantastic to train others and meet so many interesting people who have the same love of the markets like i do.
Yes sometimes i do think i'll pack up the training.Nothing is worse than training someone and wishing you were trading,but thats life and at the end of the day i enjoy it.
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Hello all ,
here's my tuppence on courses in general :
- I agree that the overall standard of courses offered is low , at lot charge exhorbitant prices for what is basic stuff backed by some dubious claims .
- Do really good traders have the desire or the time to teach ??
I mean why teach someone your own secrets of trading and when would you have the time if you are successfully trading all the time ??
- This is not to say that there can never be good courses , there can be but we must ask the hard questions :
1) what is the pedigree of the instructor - how much real trading experience does he have ? has he spent X years in the real finnacial industry , hopefully as a prop trader or equal to . Or is he an ex insurance sales man turn guru wannabe ??
2) Does he have a winning trading record over TIME , say a couple of years not just a few months, anybody can make a few big fluke winners over a short time - very difficult over a longer time .
3) What is his % return over his risk capital ? any fool can make a few big winners - looks good on paper but in reality the risk is very high . thus if you won $10k but had to risk a base cap of $20k , then it's not a very good return .
Just think you could have lost 20 grand over your gain of only 10 . better off on the roulette table , there at least you get a risk/reward of 1:1 on black v red .
on the other hand a 1000 % return on 30c bet is better than losing, but it is just too small to be considered part of a good " trading record "
therefore , a the base capital must be a reasonable amount , say US$1000 upwards .
4) is there a clearly defined guarantee not just a bunch of vague terms which completely favour the instructor ?? therefore does the guarantee look secure enough ( objectively ) so you get your money back if the system don't work and you have complied with the conditions ??
the devil is in the detail , so ask the questions o/wise caveat emptor !
here's my tuppence on courses in general :
- I agree that the overall standard of courses offered is low , at lot charge exhorbitant prices for what is basic stuff backed by some dubious claims .
- Do really good traders have the desire or the time to teach ??
I mean why teach someone your own secrets of trading and when would you have the time if you are successfully trading all the time ??
- This is not to say that there can never be good courses , there can be but we must ask the hard questions :
1) what is the pedigree of the instructor - how much real trading experience does he have ? has he spent X years in the real finnacial industry , hopefully as a prop trader or equal to . Or is he an ex insurance sales man turn guru wannabe ??
2) Does he have a winning trading record over TIME , say a couple of years not just a few months, anybody can make a few big fluke winners over a short time - very difficult over a longer time .
3) What is his % return over his risk capital ? any fool can make a few big winners - looks good on paper but in reality the risk is very high . thus if you won $10k but had to risk a base cap of $20k , then it's not a very good return .
Just think you could have lost 20 grand over your gain of only 10 . better off on the roulette table , there at least you get a risk/reward of 1:1 on black v red .
on the other hand a 1000 % return on 30c bet is better than losing, but it is just too small to be considered part of a good " trading record "
therefore , a the base capital must be a reasonable amount , say US$1000 upwards .
4) is there a clearly defined guarantee not just a bunch of vague terms which completely favour the instructor ?? therefore does the guarantee look secure enough ( objectively ) so you get your money back if the system don't work and you have complied with the conditions ??
the devil is in the detail , so ask the questions o/wise caveat emptor !
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Trader333
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mma,
you posted:
...has he spent X years in the real finnacial industry , hopefully as a prop trader or equal to
You mean people like Mr Stanzioni then ?
I know a number of consistently profitable traders who have never been prop traders and yet I also know of prop traders who couldnt teach anything and whose own trading results are poor.
I also think that there are people who know and could teach how to be an excellent trader but lack the self discipline to be profitable themselves.
There are also a number of traders who have an instinctive ability to successfully trade but this cannot be taught to others regardless of how good at teaching they may be.
The issue being that in many of the worlds arenas the best coaches are often not the best performers, they know what needs to be done and how but for various reasons are unable to do it themselves.
However I do take your point that if in doubt go for all of your suggested criteria as now we even have proprietors of horse racing systems telling us how to trade
Paul
you posted:
...has he spent X years in the real finnacial industry , hopefully as a prop trader or equal to
You mean people like Mr Stanzioni then ?
I know a number of consistently profitable traders who have never been prop traders and yet I also know of prop traders who couldnt teach anything and whose own trading results are poor.
I also think that there are people who know and could teach how to be an excellent trader but lack the self discipline to be profitable themselves.
There are also a number of traders who have an instinctive ability to successfully trade but this cannot be taught to others regardless of how good at teaching they may be.
The issue being that in many of the worlds arenas the best coaches are often not the best performers, they know what needs to be done and how but for various reasons are unable to do it themselves.
However I do take your point that if in doubt go for all of your suggested criteria as now we even have proprietors of horse racing systems telling us how to trade
Paul
mma - I think it depends on what you want from a course. I suspect that most people's expectations are too high in that they expect to be spoonfed a formula that will work under all circumstances, and where all they have to do is blindly follow a list of instructions and the $'s will just roll in. Life isn't like that.
There are some excellent coaches posting here. Mr Charts, naz, and TBS to name just 3. Robert Newgrosch of Newskills is also very good. IMHO you will get the best out of coaching if you do some hard work first and then use a coach to fine tune the knowledge you have already learned. After all, if you want to learn to play chess you can learn what all the pieces do, how they move, and some of the basic strategies yourself. When you have reached that stage then go to a Grand Master to polish your skills. Don't waste his time (and your course fee) by expecting him to teach you how a pawn moves.
It is all very well for a teacher to be able to teach, but it will all be for nowt unless you are also prepared to learn. This requires some hard work. There is much talk of having an edge. For many just being prepared to put in some hard work is all the edge they will need.
All IMHO of course. Have a nice w/e.
There are some excellent coaches posting here. Mr Charts, naz, and TBS to name just 3. Robert Newgrosch of Newskills is also very good. IMHO you will get the best out of coaching if you do some hard work first and then use a coach to fine tune the knowledge you have already learned. After all, if you want to learn to play chess you can learn what all the pieces do, how they move, and some of the basic strategies yourself. When you have reached that stage then go to a Grand Master to polish your skills. Don't waste his time (and your course fee) by expecting him to teach you how a pawn moves.
It is all very well for a teacher to be able to teach, but it will all be for nowt unless you are also prepared to learn. This requires some hard work. There is much talk of having an edge. For many just being prepared to put in some hard work is all the edge they will need.
All IMHO of course. Have a nice w/e.
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barjon
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Trader333 said:
Agree absolutely with this.
A good teacher can teach sound techniques regardless of their own trading ability. Advice can be offered about the emotional side but it can't really be taught as such. Traders who excel are generally unemotional so far as their trading is concerned, they have iron discipline and nerves of steel - try teaching that!!
good trading (and learning)
jon
martinwalker
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Mr Charts helped me get over my problems of overtrading, freezing when faced with losses, grabbing profits to fast, he taught me if you are prepared to learn his strict setups,strict conditions,strict trigger entrys and exits, the whole framework, you will be profitable - thats my experience and its worked for me and my partner - others as well as that typical day trading the US thread is anything to judge by
You can learn if you choose to is what i'm saying
m
You can learn if you choose to is what i'm saying
m
You can have the best teacher/coach/mentor in the world, yet without the inclination to put in the necessary hard work, or the time available to dedicate to this hard work, you will get no where in the long term.
RogerM's earlier post says it all:
RogerM's earlier post says it all:
RogerM said:
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It's not just about hard work though. You either have the discipline to follow what you've been taught to the letter, or you don't. Some things just can't be taught. Fear and greed have to be experienced and conquered, and ego has to be killed stone dead; if not, they will turn any bright promising student into a quiv-v-v-v-vering wr-r-r-r-eck-k-k-k. 
