the problem is that trading is not about learning in the same way that other jobs are
trading is about realising that you need to find an edge that allows to trade profitably
but because anyone can get a trading account and get charting software, there is for some reason a belief that by pressing button A and spending time learning, you can then be a succesful trader
but if you wanted to get a job as a brain surgeon, how would you go about it and how long would it take to learn?
are there forums on the internet like this with people wanting to be brain surgeons and discussing the cheapest scalpel to buy, or the best book to learn from, or how you can go on a one day training course with a brain surgeon for a few hundred pound - and the brain surgeon trainer says he is a successful brain surgeon - offers no proof of this - but will train you to be a brain surgeon with a days training - and anytime after that - you can call him up for a bit of advice!
can you sit at home, work you own hours and make millions as a brain surgeon, or a lawyer, or whatever? trading is one of the most difficult professions, and carries the most financial rewards - yet every day, already successful and unsuccesful people decide they are not happy with what they are doing already, so they will become a trader - now what do i have to do so i can start making money everyday!
i have been trading for a long long time - but that does not mean i have used to same methodology and i suspect i will need a new methodology from the next year - they type of trading i did when i started would not work now and the type of trading i do now did not exist when i started out
i have never assumed it was my right to make money trading, i always assumed it was difficult, and everyday i wonder if this is the last day i can make money
so i make sure i just learn everything i can, everyday, about how markets are changing and evolving and i study and query everything from books, newspapers, magazines, trying to find out what every little facet of trading is about, and what all the professionals in trading do and are doing and who is making money and who is not
you need to find that edge and trade it - so if your are just starting out - why not get a job as a trader with a company - and if you cant get a job trading - ask yourself why you assume you can be a trader
when people say they want to learn about trading - what they mean is - i want to learn how to make money, a lot of money and the faster the better - but that is a way different thing to learning about trading and how to trade - all the people working at spreadbetting companies and brokers know an awful lot about trading and they dont become traders
to become a successful trader - it has to be the only thing you want to do in life - it has to be all consuming and your main interest and totaly fulfilling for you 24 hours a day - not just when you have a few minutes to spare
that doesn't mean that it has to be your only interest in life, but dont mix the other interests with it, i either trade full time 24/7, or not at all - i have given up trading for years at a time - and then come back - still with all the knowledge - but i had to spend time finding a new edge as opportunities change all the time
I fully second your strong message. There are no free lunches in this world, especially in the financial world.
I should know having spent 23 years in the heart of the city at very well known firm, latterly as a partner.
The most striking observation was the remarkably few instances of wealth made from trading. (And these were people on the inside.) Yes there is wealth in the city, but it is principally from extraordinary earnings/bonuses.
More recently, trading wealth can be found in the Hedge Fund world.
Certaintly, a quick fix of a course here or there, can be the worst of all worlds. As they say a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
yep - and what most dont get is that the people who make the big bucks in the city might work for a big bank or whatever - but they have the contacts that bring in the investment monies and get the deals done - and the bank is almost just a credibility front and provide the infranstructure for deal making
thats why these people earn a big chunk of the profit - and a lot of deals might only make fractions of percent - but the monies involved are so large that those fractions add up to big big amounts relative to an individuals earnings
some relevant & good points, but I have to say this...........are u saying it is an absolute necessity to be a current or 'ex' 'city boy' to make any money in the markets ... if it is why r u here?.......fannying about with us minions??
I guess most here dont work in 'the city'?????
no offence intended.......unless u r reading the meta language & if u r professional u wont be ...........just a direct question ?
sorry, obviously my little rant was misunderstood if you directed your point to me
i did not mention about being ex-city and i thought mully was saying that hardly any money, proportionally, in his experience was made in the city from trading
if anything the point i am making and suspect mully was making is the opposite and that is that knowing about finance or the trading business, and having tons of money and infrastructure sitll does not mean that someone is gonna make money from trading - its easier to make .1% (point one percent) off $100 (when you have access to the $100) than 1% (one percent) off $10 - and working in the city is about learning to make very very small percentages off very very large amounts of capital
thats why the avergage person thinks that property is a great investment - but all that is happening is that people get to trade with a large amount of money through buying their homes and then they trade between each other figuring they have a one way bet - and the capital appreciation can look substantial because the base capital amount is large - unfortunatly all they are doing is playing the interest rate curve - and property is a very illiquid investment supported by amateurs - so when the bubble bursts - it bursts big time and property will return to its historic median after a trip below
my reason for being on the forum is just like anyone else - i am here to learn and to find any possible edges that someone else might have a feel for, but not have found a way to implement it or might just need the last bit of the jigsaw that i might be able to provide, or might just want to work with someone to achieve
and as a bit of learning for me - what does "meta language" mean?
I place no restriction on who can make it as a trader (city or non-city). My only concern is the quality of the commitment to achieve the goal of a trader.
Quoting form Terry Orlick's Sporting book "In pursuit of Excellence" there are seven critical elements of excellence:
The problem lies in the hidden objective behind seeking "trading courses". I suspect the hope is that courses prove a quick-fix to achieving that goal. If it is just part of an overall process to achieving competence, then that is ok. As long as you realise that trading, if it is to be successful, has to be seen as a full time occupation, not to be undertaken lightly, and not something that can be learnt by a course here or a course there.
But I wish everyone success in their own pursuit of trading success.