Trading Arcades have had their day

[weakpunter]

@pboyles sorry didnt really answer your question mate, but yes there is no advantage to be had even doing chunkier volume at an arcade compared with an fcm..............the only thing the arcade has that an fcm hasnt got is that annoying prick that sits opposite you constantly talking the market up or down when ur trying to concentrate or if no that then farting next to you allday

 

[state]

Is FCM trading only done whilst at home?

If FCM is only privately done then people can group together and hire their own offices like some have done on these forums.

I guess some people rather enjoy the idiot farting next to them.

How much does this FCM charge for bund round trips? Maybe arcades are cheaper?

 

[pboyles]

Is FCM trading only done whilst at home?

If FCM is only privately done then people can group together and hire their own offices like some have done on these forums.

I guess some people rather enjoy the idiot farting next to them.

How much does this FCM charge for bund round trips? Maybe arcades are cheaper?

You could do it from home or a group could rent an office it wouldn't matter. Comm on Bund is euro1.50ish margin 300 to 500 roughly.

 

[kimo'sabby]

even worse..what is it with this graduate scheme all these places run? i came to the conclusion it's more to do with the insecurity of the people who run the places who just about got past doing o or gcse's (only 2 - 3 max!). i can think of at least one other trading outfit where an ex floor trader (ex big fish too) runs an arcade who defo never saw life after o levels...but that doesn't mean this man can't trader, nope, just can't make money on screens so he runs an arcade...hang on, need to think about that one....

sorry, but the arcades have never represented a decent 'career' move. the lure of being selected for interview and the false belief you were special getting through the process that reflected little more than the maths questions the bosses could never answer has created this shroud of secrecy over an industry that has become more complicated than it really is!

add to the rediculous 'desk' costs that are demanded month on month along with ott round turn rates and is it a wonder why no one makes the cut. and when you do blow out, I strongly suggets NOT putting on your cv where you have been as the big employers will frown upon it (it says all the wrong things about you such as that was the only job you could get)

if i was starting out my trading career all over again, i'd recommend opening up a cfd account/city index/ similar and trade off that. where to get the capital? do as quite a few of us did all those years ago, get it off a credit card. trade small and see if you like doing it.

there are so many sites on the net, eg, this one, to learn the business slowly with guidance that i feel your chances of getting a foothold on understanding trading are better than if you were getting smashed with 2k costs every month in a boiler, sorry, trading arcade.

and if you insist on being in an office,the advent of cheap broadband packages, cqg packages, office space for as little as 2k a month inc rates, the ability to muck in with a few guys and get something going is massively within every person's reach.

and the next time you are called to interview by the demi-gods.....ask what they did in the 'war'...it might surprise you what they didn't.....yellow jacket anyone????????

Makes sense. This is the way i view arcades, they either view me as a commodity or a liability based on my accounts. Let's say we strike up a deal, i use my dosh and some of thiers and we come up with a profit share.

Why the **** should i pay for desk fees on top of the profit share?

It's up to them to get what they need out of me in the profit share. If i don't like it i walk away.


Any thoughts?

 

[weakpunter]

@state if you were doing reasonably large volume you can haggle fcm,s down to near arcade prices on comms, like pboyles said 300 to 500 for intraday margin or 4 to 1 leverage any platform you like , draw your profit daily if you like.....dont even have to phone them ....all done online , no desk fee, no farter,get called sir by the fcm when u ring up,not......oy like you would get called at an arcade , if you need speed for auto systems then they will host you at the exchang,if you dont platforms with bells and whistles then there are plenty of free platforms............need anymore reasons????

 

[pboyles]

With $500 daytrades margins for futures why would anyone need backing, maybe for equities but for futures, surely not.

 

[weakpunter]

Makes sense. This is the way i view arcades, they either view me as a commodity or a liability based on my accounts. Let's say we strike up a deal, i use my dosh and some of thiers and we come up with a profit share.

Why the **** should i pay for desk fees on top of the profit share?

It's up to them to get what they need out of me in the profit share. If i don't like it i walk away.


Any thoughts?

very true words the only reason we pay desk fees is so they can have posh glass elivatored offices, all paid for by us lol........thats why i knocked the city on the head , my desk fees would add up to 2 long haul holidays for the familly and a bit extra to upgrade my car every couple of years

 

[kimo'sabby]

very true words the only reason we pay desk fees is so they can have posh glass elivatored offices, all paid for by us lol........thats why i knocked the city on the head , my desk fees would add up to 2 long haul holidays for the familly and a bit extra to upgrade my car every couple of years

In all honesty WP, i view desk fees as a bit of a con. Desk fees are basically an extra tax that most traders can do without.

I don't know the full story of all arcade traders and what deal they are on with thier own arcades, but at first glance the word mug comes to mind.

 

[weakpunter]

another point i wanted to make regarding latency\connectivity as those were the only points made by arcade reps such as [parky] , was that according to my pal that works for trading technologies latency has a lot more to do with how many traders are bundled into a TT gateway than just fixed internet lines and internet speed in his opinion london arcades overloaded their gateways 3 to 4 times more than high net worth FCM,s ,.....he basically said that when arcades did that , they basically increased latency so severly that he said there was not much difference between TT at an arcade to TT at home off bt broadband................most half decent arcades are not worth more than 10 million pounds , serious FCM,s are worth hundreds of millions and some are worth billions, so it makes sense that arcades economise on gateways like the way they do on everything else.........even bog roll

 

[state]

lol on economising on bog roll.

so let me get this right. to trade 20 bunds at home requires only $10,000? sounds low.

you mention that roundtrips are 1.50euro per contract. thats around £1.25. most arcades charge at least 10p cheaper than this, and this drops quite a bit once you start doing volume. so if you're a volume trader then doesn't the amount you save on round trips in effect pay for your desk fee per month at the arcade?

 

[pboyles]

Lowest Bund margin I have seen is euro300. Regarding commissions that was the starting point, they decrease with size. Check the Velocity Futures site and see for yourself.

 

[pboyles]

lol on economising on bog roll.

so let me get this right. to trade 20 bunds at home requires only $10,000? sounds low.

you mention that roundtrips are 1.50euro per contract. thats around £1.25. most arcades charge at least 10p cheaper than this, and this drops quite a bit once you start doing volume. so if you're a volume trader then doesn't the amount you save on round trips in effect pay for your desk fee per month at the arcade?

Actually they start at euro 1.26 going down to euro .58 for 20,000 RT and so on (with xtrader subscription) . I did say 1.50ish, I should have been more specific.

 

[state]

Actually they start at euro 1.26 going down to euro .58 for 20,000 RT and so on (with xtrader subscription) . I did say 1.50ish, I should have been more specific.

thats actually very competitive to arcades. agreed about arcades having a hard time ahead then. can see a lot of traders at arcades leaving to hire their own offices to save on desk fees and other nonsense.

 

[weakpunter]

thats actually very competitive to arcades. agreed about arcades having a hard time ahead then. can see a lot of traders at arcades leaving to hire their own offices to save on desk fees and other nonsense.

Yes defo, thats the whole point coupled with the fact you dont have to give a split as you would do at an arcade.............you cannot put $5000 or even $10000 down at an arcade, you usually have to have 20 k sterling for 100 % owned account
. The cheapest deal at an arcade is to give 10k sterling down , pay 2500 in desk fees and give away 20-30% split of profit, if people dont beleive me call them and ask they will all be roughly there or there abouts.

FCM = no desk fee, no split, account minimum requirement for 100% owned account from $5000 dollars , a larger selection of platforms from high end like x-trader to cheap or even free ones, the same 4:1 intraday leverage as at an arcade,

Game over Arcade .

Lots of newbies think theyll learn the art at an arcade hence go for that option, let me be honest what do you think you will learn at an arcade?
1. learn how to interpret market news? answer you can learn the impact yourself theres plenty of resources on the web for that .watch the markets reaction on simulator

2. learn how to scalp on trendlines fibbo and support and resistance?
buy technical analysis books and practice yourself on free simulator.

3. learn strategies like quasae arbitrage and multi exchange spreading LOL?
look up the ratios on trade2win and trial and error on simulator for free.
(advice .....dont bother unless you like doing lots of round turns for arcades benefit
the idea is that they meanrevert.........they dont anymore!!!)

4. you want to speak to experienced traders about issues with discipline,money management? come on trade2win you´ll find enough decent blokes some with
a lot of experience who will give some sound advice if thats what your looking for.

5. you are an experienced trader with an algo/automated strategy and need superior
connectivity? quality FCM´s will host your strategies or algos or autospreading strategies direct at the exchange.

Conclusion: wether you are a newbie or experienced arcades are overrated overhyped
and a waste of money, to quote a member PITSCUM if he had to start his career over again he´d open a small account with a broker or FCM and trade small and learn for himself wether or not trading is for him or not .......the $5000 dollar account min
if lost will be far cheaper than paying 30,000 pounds sterling in desk fees and all your travel to the city &living expenses to find out its not for you after 1 year of heartache. And if you do fall into the 10% that can make a living then (a) you dont need an arcades backing as you would have been building your account steadily from your original 5k enough to increase your size, and (b) if you show a track record of profit over the year ,you can get backing if thats what you truly want, but fundamentaly you would have
saved yourself a fortune in both the instances of success or failure.
if you truly need or want it

 

[gmarx]

a couple of us left our rip off arcade last month and started trading through a company in canary wharf on a similar deal to those mentioned in this thread, must say Iam quite impressed probably should have done it sooner and cant really say speed is an issue when Iam trading. I got a great deal as well 10k dollars- or 6500 sterling roughly down 20 bobl x-trader with charts for 500 pounds and 1.00 euro all inclusive per round turn and it gets cheaper if I do more than 6000 lots per month, I think thats even better than some of the rates FCM´s were being quoted on here.

 

[pboyles]

a couple of us left our rip off arcade last month and started trading through a company in canary wharf on a similar deal to those mentioned in this thread, must say Iam quite impressed probably should have done it sooner and cant really say speed is an issue when Iam trading. I got a great deal as well 10k dollars- or 6500 sterling roughly down 20 bobl x-trader with charts for 500 pounds and 1.00 euro all inclusive per round turn and it gets cheaper if I do more than 6000 lots per month, I think thats even better than some of the rates FCM´s were being quoted on here.

Are you trading remote or in their office?

 

[gmarx]

Are you trading remote or in their office?

Iam trading remote , but can trade at their office cheaply, but Iam trying to save a few quid at moment on travel , I think when I was in the city Id spend 500 a month on tube,lunch,pint etc not inc desk fees so staying at home is giving me quite a good saving , if I start making a bit more I may go down to their office as I miss the banter a bit

 

[pboyles]

Iam trading remote , but can trade at their office cheaply, but Iam trying to save a few quid at moment on travel , I think when I was in the city Id spend 500 a month on tube,lunch,pint etc not inc desk fees so staying at home is giving me quite a good saving , if I start making a bit more I may go down to their office as I miss the banter a bit

Are you keeping 100% of your profits? Are they being compensated from commissions or a flat fee?

 

[gmarx]

Are you keeping 100% of your profits? Are they being compensated from commissions or a flat fee?[/QUOTE

Iam on 100% for my account, as far as I can tell they just make off my roundies, if you want to trade from their office I think you just have to pay the landlords rent about 300 pounds per month with your internet,so I dont think they make on their office space, think the office space is kind of like the co-op suggestions made on this thread earlier.

I think some of the guys on this thread were involved in starting it up.

 

[pboyles]

Are you keeping 100% of your profits? Are they being compensated from commissions or a flat fee?[/QUOTE

Iam on 100% for my account, as far as I can tell they just make off my roundies, if you want to trade from their office I think you just have to pay the landlords rent about 300 pounds per month with your internet,so I dont think they make on their office space, think the office space is kind of like the co-op suggestions made on this thread earlier.

I think some of the guys on this thread were involved in starting it up.

OK I think I've heard of that one, yes its more of a co-op type thing I heard.