Trading Arcades have had their day

[pboyles]

This is amazing, anyone would think Trader Clearing Alliance, Griffen etc had never happened.
Simple guys you get what you pay for, you want cheap you get rubbish, the trick is the word professional, a professional trading room as opposed to arcades.
Look back at the threads on this very website about TCA, the "knowledgeable" were falling over themselves to say TCA meant the demise of trading rooms, here was a "non profit" making organisation run by traders for traders. Even then those with a few brain cells were saying in your dreams, by default if you are not making money you cannot build up capital and all you can do is increase risk. we were told, Risk? Risk systems negate risk! To those who do not know there backside from there elbow maybe. Sure enough it imploded doing just what everyone said it would have to, use one traders money to support others, no profits, no capital, no company.
The same questions apply, how big is the balance sheet of the company you have your account with? Are they FSA regulated? What Risk do they have on intraday and overnight, if you do not get good answers and you are with them then basically you deserve what you will get.
As for trading from home? Some can do it some cannot, the usual tendency is to overtrade due to boredom or under trade because of distractions, a professional trading room for decent traders is a good tool and let’s face it, if you worry about £ 500 here or there you hardly qualify as a decent trader anyway.
Have professional trading rooms had their day? No ours has filled over the last 18 months with traders from big Banks and Institutions who earn good money and would laugh at the idea and our biggest two competitors have also been seeing large influxes so I would say the market is healthy.

It has nothing to do with a TCA type operation which charged a fee for training and then offered (or didnt offer) backing. This is a sharing arrangement for office space for people who trade their own brokerage accounts. The issue is that so called 'professional' trading rooms have been shown to give little or no benefit once high desk fees are figured in. People have realised that they can go and get good leverage and low comm off a broker.

 

[just21]

Where is the trading room that costs £500 a month? The point of this thread is to find an option less than the £1500-£2000 cost of a trading room per month, that is not trading at home.

This is amazing, anyone would think Trader Clearing Alliance, Griffen etc had never happened.
Simple guys you get what you pay for, you want cheap you get rubbish, the trick is the word professional, a professional trading room as opposed to arcades.
Look back at the threads on this very website about TCA, the "knowledgeable" were falling over themselves to say TCA meant the demise of trading rooms, here was a "non profit" making organisation run by traders for traders. Even then those with a few brain cells were saying in your dreams, by default if you are not making money you cannot build up capital and all you can do is increase risk. we were told, Risk? Risk systems negate risk! To those who do not know there backside from there elbow maybe. Sure enough it imploded doing just what everyone said it would have to, use one traders money to support others, no profits, no capital, no company.
The same questions apply, how big is the balance sheet of the company you have your account with? Are they FSA regulated? What Risk do they have on intraday and overnight, if you do not get good answers and you are with them then basically you deserve what you will get.
As for trading from home? Some can do it some cannot, the usual tendency is to overtrade due to boredom or under trade because of distractions, a professional trading room for decent traders is a good tool and let’s face it, if you worry about £ 500 here or there you hardly qualify as a decent trader anyway.
Have professional trading rooms had their day? No ours has filled over the last 18 months with traders from big Banks and Institutions who earn good money and would laugh at the idea and our biggest two competitors have also been seeing large influxes so I would say the market is healthy.

 

[Parky]

I suggest you check out TCA's history they did that at the death when they were already in trouble, TCA started as collective of traders who decided Arcades were greedy and if the traders all got together and cut out the middle man some kind of trading nirvana would occur. It failed, what you are talking about is the death throes when they were desperate and started a trainee trader program to get cash in.

 

[just21]

Nobody is suggesting cooperating on a clearing agreement. I am cooperating in sharing an office with three others all who clear at different companies. The building in W1 will be 50% empty from next week. If a private circuit to a clearer is needed then people can share the cost of that. You have not shared where the £500 a month office is.

I suggest you check out TCA's history they did that at the death when they were already in trouble, TCA started as collective of traders who decided Arcades were greedy and if the traders all got together and cut out the middle man so kind of trading nirvana would occur. It failed, what you are talking about is the death throes when they were desperate and started a trainee trader program to get cash in.

 

[Parky]

Just21,
Earlier in the thread a collective was exactly what was suggested.
In any case even this warehouse arrangement would be inferior from a point of view of who looks after the lines? who looks after the systems? Do you have dedicated IT staff and Risk management staff that professional trading rooms have as part of the service?
If you are all trading over the internet then you are already at a disadvantage to a fixed line solution, sure your call but you also have resilience issues.
Do you have resilience in terms of UPS power if the lights go out for example?
When 9/11 kicked off the internet ground to a halt and brokers were buried with phones ringing off the walls, how big are you potential losses? What we are talking about is quality, if you are happy with second best then fine but all I am saying is you get what you pay for simple. I would have thought if you are trading for a living you would want the best tools, the best front end trading systems, the fastest lines, Co-Location of servers, dedicated IT staff, resilience, back up lines, servers and gateways etc. For that you have to pay.

 

[just21]

It is still a secret where you can get all that for £500 a month. I am paying £300 plus vat a month for an office in W1, if more people are interested the price comes down to £240 a month plus vat. No, we don't have staff.

Just21,
Earlier in the thread a collective was exactly what was suggested.
In any case even this warehouse arrangement would be inferior from a point of view of who looks after the lines? who looks after the systems? Do you have dedicated IT staff and Risk management staff that professional trading rooms have as part of the service?
If you are all trading over the internet then you are already at a disadvantage to a fixed line solution, sure your call but you also have resilience issues.
Do you have resilience in terms of UPS power if the lights go out for example?
When 9/11 kicked off the internet ground to a halt and brokers were buried with phones ringing off the walls, how big are you potential losses? What we are talking about is quality, if you are happy with second best then fine but all I am saying is you get what you pay for simple. I would have thought if you are trading for a living you would want the best tools, the best front end trading systems, the fastest lines, Co-Location of servers, dedicated IT staff, resilience, back up lines, servers and gateways etc. For that you have to pay.

 

[Parky]

I meant £ 500.00 in terms of the difference between £ 1,500 and £ 2,000, but no you cannot get into a professional trading room for £ 500.00 a month, the lowest for one exchange would be around £ 1,500.00 a month.

 

[meanreversion]

Sorry, what's your actual point Parky?

 

[Parky]

I was answering the thread question, Have Trading Arcades had their day? Answer No!
For the reasons I have listed above, the comparisons are not really comparisons, it is a bit like saying have Porche had their day because I can drive on the road very well in a Smart car!

 

[weakpunter]

I was answering the thread question, Have Trading Arcades had their day? Answer No!
For the reasons I have listed above, the comparisons are not really comparisons, it is a bit like saying have Porche had their day because I can drive on the road very well in a Smart car!

Parky,
Carry on talking the arcades up, you talk about best connectivity , risk management
blah blah blah, Ive traded at all the big name arcades and beleive you me ,they have their fair share of screen freezes,phantom orders etc etc, and I did trade 911 mate
at probably the best arcade around and everyones pats and x trader just locked up, Ive only stopped trading at arcades since last year, and you are telling fairy tales if your trying to convince people that arcades are the epitomy of utter efficiency, and risk management thats a joke I can remember having to queue up with 40 guys locked out of their x traders begging the broker to pull their orders, trust me it would have been quicker over a phone with an fcm or broker. I currently job the bund and bobl on x trader indoors havent frozen once in 6 months, have only missed prices occasionally when the market had kicked off on Trichet or similar news, which I would have done in an arcade anyway, about driving a Porsche compared to a Smart car.......well I can tell you my friend you think are in a porsche but its actually a porsche kit car with a renault engine in it, Mutton dressed as Lamb mate.

 

[gedward3]

Parky,
Carry on talking the arcades up, you talk about best connectivity , risk management
blah blah blah, Ive traded at all the big name arcades and beleive you me ,they have their fair share of screen freezes,phantom orders etc etc, and I did trade 911 mate
at probably the best arcade around and everyones pats and x trader just locked up, Ive only stopped trading at arcades since last year, and you are telling fairy tales if your trying to convince people that arcades are the epitomy of utter efficiency, and risk management thats a joke I can remember having to queue up with 40 guys locked out of their x traders begging the broker to pull their orders, trust me it would have been quicker over a phone with an fcm or broker. I currently job the bund and bobl on x trader indoors havent frozen once in 6 months, have only missed prices occasionally when the market had kicked off on Trichet or similar news, which I would have done in an arcade anyway, about driving a Porsche compared to a Smart car.......well I can tell you my friend you think are in a porsche but its actually a porsche kit car with a renault engine in it, Mutton dressed as Lamb mate.

Weakpunter,

Did you have problems when you first downloaded X Trader. Ive been trying to
download through Globaltrader with no luck.

Sorry to go off topic

Ged

 

[Parky]

weakpunter
I do not believe any decent arcade would have ever offered pats!
We already talking Smart Car!
The bottom line is a lot of "Arcades" have been and gone and the men have definately been sorted from the boys.
But if you are saying an internet connection to any platform is better, faster and more resilient than a fixed line solution then you have never been in a "decent" arcade.
The only slowdowns we have had over the past 18 months, 2 years have been exchange slowdowns and guess what, that affects everybody including brokers.
The professional trading rooms that have been around since day one, Schneider’s, Kyte and Xconnect have stayed in the game by offering a quality service, if they were half as bad as you want to convince everyone they would have closed down long ago, not expand as they have.
Schneider’s have just moved to a bigger office and taken another floor for example.
Sounds like sour grapes!

 

[weakpunter]

weakpunter
I do not believe any decent arcade would have ever offered pats!
We already talking Smart Car!
The bottom line is a lot of "Arcades" have been and gone and the men have definately been sorted from the boys.
But if you are saying an internet connection to any platform is better, faster and more resilient than a fixed line solution then you have never been in a "decent" arcade.
The only slowdowns we have had over the past 18 months, 2 years have been exchange slowdowns and guess what, that affects everybody including brokers.
The professional trading rooms that have been around since day one, Schneider’s, Kyte and Xconnect have stayed in the game by offering a quality service, if they were half as bad as you want to convince everyone they would have closed down long ago, not expand as they have.
Schneider’s have just moved to a bigger office and taken another floor for example.
Sounds like sour grapes!

Parky,
You dont half talk a load of old rollox, one of the the so called premiere arcades you mentioned above was the one who had been providing pats to half the office hahahahahaaha, youve obviously not been about, The true reason theyve lasted so long is there has been no alternative to them , now there are plenty of options elsewhere , I use a dedicated leased line and for taking 3 or 4 ticks out of the bobl or bund it is ideal, do you really think the arcades direct lines are any match for the massive funds out there who have superior technology and custom front ends, your living in a fools paradise, you can talk till the cows come home about your so called tech advantage but its nonsense.There was a time when using an autospreader trading synthetic spreads required an edge of speed ,but if you really knew what you were talking about then you would go and speak to some highly experienced traders who would flatly tell you speed is no advantage anymore as scalping for a tick is more or less over and most of us who used to spread and are still making money have ,changed our trading parameters and time frames and taking a more positional view with our trades. Theres no sour grapes here just roses pal that ive finally got out of the quagmire of paying through the nose at an arcade which I had been doing for the last 12/13 years. Come back with a decent argument instead of your constant speed claptrap.

 

[just21]

How long is your leased line and how much does it cost?

Parky,
You dont half talk a load of old rollox, one of the the so called premiere arcades you mentioned above was the one who had been providing pats to half the office hahahahahaaha, youve obviously not been about, The true reason theyve lasted so long is there has been no alternative to them , now there are plenty of options elsewhere , I use a dedicated leased line and for taking 3 or 4 ticks out of the bobl or bund it is ideal, do you really think the arcades direct lines are any match for the massive funds out there who have superior technology and custom front ends, your living in a fools paradise, you can talk till the cows come home about your so called tech advantage but its nonsense.There was a time when using an autospreader trading synthetic spreads required an edge of speed ,but if you really knew what you were talking about then you would go and speak to some highly experienced traders who would flatly tell you speed is no advantage anymore as scalping for a tick is more or less over and most of us who used to spread and are still making money have ,changed our trading parameters and time frames and taking a more positional view with our trades. Theres no sour grapes here just roses pal that ive finally got out of the quagmire of paying through the nose at an arcade which I had been doing for the last 12/13 years. Come back with a decent argument instead of your constant speed claptrap.

 

[weakpunter]

Just21,
2mg up 2mg down sdsl 100 quid a month,

 

[Parky]

weakpunter,
So that is why Algo teams are leaving the big Banks and coming to us then is it.
You really know a lot less than you think you do, we have been taking Algo traders and trading teams from the so called big institutions because we do not have their bureaucracy, our systems are bespoke and we actually give them better connectivity, so much so the first team we took on have gone off shore having made more with us in 18 months that they did at a very large Bank in 5 years.
You really should do some research before you state such rubbish.
For your information I have been in the City for over twenty years and help set up the very first trading room for Eurex traders when Liffe was still floor based and anyone who thinks Pats was anything other than a very cheap and inferior platform needs their head testing, the fact it has died gives you the answer.
We have plenty of very good traders using Co Lo and continuing to make good money thank you but then bad traders will always find excuses.

 

[weakpunter]

weakpunter,
So that is why Algo teams are leaving the big Banks and coming to us then is it.
You really know a lot less than you think you do, we have been taking Algo traders and trading teams from the so called big institutions because we do not have their bureaucracy, our systems are bespoke and we actually give them better connectivity, so much so the first team we took on have gone off shore having made more with us in 18 months that they did at a very large Bank in 5 years.
you really should do some research before you state such rubbish.
For you information I have been in the City for over twenty years and help set up the very first trading room for Eurex traders when Liffe was still floor based

Parky ,
Bully for you then, talk about changing the argument! I knew you were plugging one of your own Arcades lol , if you had bothered to go through this post then you wouldnt be so pig ignorant and actually realize what I have been saying to the readers on this thread was that if you were a mid size trader trading some outright bunds, bobls or dax or stoxx or gilts etc and trying to take a few ticks out of it, then there were better options than arcades suited for our style of trading, now your banging on about taking bank algo traders on, when this thread was started it was to address the issues of mid size intraday locals who are being fleeced of 2500 quid a month and giving 30% of their profits when there were options out there to save them money, do you think I could give a tuppeny damn about your bank algo boys , I was trying to give a word of advice to the majority who are traders like me. So dont come on my thread and start chopping and changing the real argument here.......anyway thats what I would expect from a representative of an arcade.

 

[Parky]

On several of your posts you have questioned our infrastructure saying we suffered slowdowns and down times and to quote you "you really think the arcades direct lines are any match for the massive funds out there who have superior technology and custom front ends, your living in a fool’s paradise"
I have merely proved you wrong, so no I have not changed the argument, I have merely pointed out you do not know what you are talking about.
Trading for a living is no different to anything else in life, you get what you pay for, you want cheap you get rubbish, you want the best you have to pay for it and no amount of bleating and burying your head in the sand is going to change that. If you only make £5k a month then sure stay at home a professional trading room isn’t for you, if you make decent money and want quality and resilience go to a professional trading room

 

[weakpunter]

On several of your posts you have questioned our infrastructure saying we suffered slowdowns and down times and to quote you "you really think the arcades direct lines are any match for the massive funds out there who have superior technology and custom front ends, your living in a fool’s paradise"
I have merely proved you wrong, so no I have not changed the argument, I have merely pointed out you do not know what you are talking about.
Trading for a living is no different to anything else in life, you get what you pay for, you want cheap you get rubbish, you want the best you have to pay for it and no amount of bleating and burying your head in the sand is going to change that. If you only make £5k a month then sure stay at home a professional trading room isn’t for you, if you make decent money and want quality and resilience go to a professional trading room

Parky,
Now you really are losing the plot, first of all you dont know me and you dont know what kind of money I make today or have done over the years, Ive traded probably in bigger volumes than you ever did whilst you have sat there like a coward in your risk room for the last 15 years , and even if I did only make 5 grand a month which I can assure you I dont, then its the consistent traders who sat at the arcades for a decade making 5 -20 k a month doing 20,000 spins a month that kept the likes of you in business, and made sure you could sit there in your little risk hovel on your mediocre salary. So is that what you tell your trainees and stalwarts that have kept you in business...you disgust me, you ungrateful plank

 

[trader_dante]

I love this site.