Trading Arcades have had their day

[Parky]

OOh dear, I thought good traders kept their cool?
Now for a start I did not say or suggest you only made £ 5K, you assume I am in risk environment, you assume 5 - 20K a month and 20,000 round trips is impressive, ok it is not bad I will give you that but you would rank as mediocre and I assure you we have plenty doing much bigger size keeping us in business thanks a lot.
As for the "hovels", "Mediocre Salary" Ok I will give you that one, "ungrateful plank",
Dear dear, those anger management courses are not working!
But I could not leave you just misleading people could I?
As for your disgust, bothered?????

 

[weakpunter]

OOh dear, I thought good traders kept their cool?
Now for a start I did not say or suggest you only made £ 5K, you assume I am in risk, you assume 5 - 20K a month and 20,000 round trips is impressive, ok it is not bad I will give you that but you would rank as mediocre and I assure you we have plenty doing much bigger size keeping us in business thanks a lot.
As for the "hovels", "Mediocre Salary" Ok I will give you that one, "ungrateful plank",
Dear dear, those anger management courses are not working!
But I could not leave you just misleading people could I?
As for your disgust, bothered?????

Parky,
hahaha , you really are a prize nana, I wasnt talking about myself, I just pointed out
that you had basically insulted the mainstay of traders at Arcades, which I actually thank you in doing as all youve done is conclusively proven what a bunch of ungrateful low lifes you are, no one has been mislead on here by me, theyve just had their eyes opened, anyway keep up the good fight of the sinking ship "arcade" thats all your good for, go and chill out another week done go have a hand shandy over todays p&l in you risk room.
seeing as you cant do it yourself TaTa

 

[Parky]

Well I am sure most traders and those reading this thread are more than capable of making their own minds up.
But who is ungrateful?
We provide a quality service to professional traders, quite simply if we did not we would go out of business and the simple fact is the professional trading rooms still have much to offer and will be around for some time. Rumours of their demise have been very greatly exaggerated, especially it seems by those with axes to grind.
.

 

[weakpunter]

Well I am sure most traders and those reading this thread are more than capable of making their own minds up.
But who is ungrateful?
We provide a quality service to professional traders, quite simply if we did not we would go out of business and the simple fact is the professional trading rooms still have much to offer and will be around for some time. Rumours of their demise have been very greatly exaggerated, especially it seems by those with axes to grind.
.

Parky,
Thats my whole point no you dont provide a quality service,If you had read any of my past threads and realized a thing or two about the disgusting way some traders have been treated at arcades....have had money basically stolen from them or at least have had arcades attempt to steal their money when they have wanted to leave or switch companies or managers at the premiere league arcades who have contacted brokers to take the opposite position of the traders they trained when they have all been caught in a wrong position.....what do you say about that Parky?, I know the ins and outs of what has gone on behind closed doors at arcades, I too have been around for 20 odd years in the city and was one of the first to go electronic, and you are trying to make out that arcades are pillars of the city which they are not, you have in your previous statement tried to belittle traders who make 5 grand and should stay at home, the one thing I will agree on is that hopefully traders do see the truth for themselves.

 

[Parky]

Taking money from someone’s account, disgusting tell the FSA.
When you want to leave, the exit policy should be set down in the paperwork you sign when you join, basically most trading systems will have a notice clause as long as those are covered and the trading room has no other real liabilities you should be able to walk without penalty.
Front running or using shadow software or taking contra positions via brokers disgusting, please name and shame.
By stating traders earning £ 5 K should stay at home what I meant, and admittedly may not have been clear, is that arcades are not for you because by the time fixed costs come out you cannot make a living, traders earning more would benefit from the quality an arcade provides. But those making less obviously need a cheaper solution.

 

[weakpunter]

Taking money from someone’s account, disgusting tell the FSA.
When you want to leave, the exit policy should be set down in the paperwork you sign when you join, basically most trading systems will have a notice clause as long as those are covered and the trading room has no other real liabilities you should be able to walk without penalty.
Front running or using shadow software or taking contra positions via brokers disgusting, please name and shame.
By stating traders earning £ 5 K should stay at home what I meant, and admittedly may not have been clear, is that arcades are not for you because by the time fixed costs come out you cannot make a living, traders earning more would benefit from the quality an arcade provides. But those making less obviously need a cheaper solution.

Parky,
At least we are in agreement on something....My point was that these incidents have happened more an more in the last few years and I thought they should be mentioned.
Regarding why ive started this thread, I cannot beleive you can disagree with the fact that if you are a mid size profitable trader making say 10 k-15 k per month doing 5000 lots and giving 30% for so called leverage add to that a conservative 2 grand desk fee that you are not better off at a quality FCM giving no split paying a fraction more in round turns and 500 odd quid for the same TT x trader platform as at an arcade, with the only minus being that your 1/100th of a millisecond slower than a DMA arcade, incidently i would agree there are some rubbish brokers with inferior platforms out there, but there are good ones, ones who have invested heavily in technology and can also provide DMA access to a small group for a relatively cheap price if the group clubs together ...far cheaper than what a groups desk fee totals to in an arcade, Iam currently at such a company........Anyway Parky I actually know who you are and your not the worst of blokes in our game (please take as compliment) but when I discovered the possiblities, and have been thoroughly satisfied on all fronts wether it be their risk desk,customer support,technology and pricing I felt others should know about it.
Like I said before its all about the numbers and if a trader can have 15 k instead of 6/7 k after costs it kind of makes sense.

 

[tommog]

in defence to the prop firms there are certain advantages in terms of infastructure. The interent connections are usually on dedicated lines so you are running on connections pretty much as fast as you can get (sitting closer to the hubs will obviously make it faster) i have guys in Chicago that can beat me to prices but we're talking hundreths of a second (which only really matter for high frequency stuff), i dare say trading from home wont offer you that. Also most prop firms have analysts and for them to announce a news flash before the rest of the market there is certainly a lot of money to be made from that, i know guys earning over 80k a month just reacting to these news releases early on.

However if you are a smallish trader (making less than 10k a month) there is no WAY you should be at a prop firm, if you are self backed it is daylight robbery. Even if you are backed by the firm the profit split they take makes it not worth your while. If you can make £10k a month regularly (firstly congratulations) but expect to be left with on average £7500 after desk. Then on a backed trader split you will walk away with about £4500 (before tax).
Not exactly on the breadline i know but for all the insecurity, stress and heartache of being in the top percentage of traders you earn a fairly average salary is it worth it?

I definately recommend trading from home and keep all your profits and suddenly £10k a month is very good money

 

[just21]

And if you don't want to sit at home on your own get a cheap office www.easyoffice.co.uk and share the £100 a month cost of a private circuit with others.

in defence to the prop firms there are certain advantages in terms of infastructure. The interent connections are usually on dedicated lines so you are running on connections pretty much as fast as you can get (sitting closer to the hubs will obviously make it faster) i have guys in Chicago that can beat me to prices but we're talking hundreths of a second (which only really matter for high frequency stuff), i dare say trading from home wont offer you that. Also most prop firms have analysts and for them to announce a news flash before the rest of the market there is certainly a lot of money to be made from that, i know guys earning over 80k a month just reacting to these news releases early on.

However if you are a smallish trader (making less than 10k a month) there is no WAY you should be at a prop firm, if you are self backed it is daylight robbery. Even if you are backed by the firm the profit split they take makes it not worth your while. If you can make £10k a month regularly (firstly congratulations) but expect to be left with on average £7500 after desk. Then on a backed trader split you will walk away with about £4500 (before tax).
Not exactly on the breadline i know but for all the insecurity, stress and heartache of being in the top percentage of traders you earn a fairly average salary is it worth it?

I definately recommend trading from home and keep all your profits and suddenly £10k a month is very good money

 

[Parky]

Weakpunter,
Compliment accepted.
I appreciate some traders would be better off trading remotely, especially where the benefits of speed and reliance are not crucial and their average monthly P&L requires them to keep costs to a minimum.
However some traders suffer from trading alone, some under trade some over trade and solitude is not always good for a trader.
The only issue I have is trying to brand all trading rooms as the same, don’t get me wrong there have been bad ones and bad practises.
I myself have been quite vocal on these threads on trading rooms I think have been bad if only because we do all tend to get tarred with the same brush.
But I do think those I mentioned earlier offer a good service and do represent value for money but concede that they will not suit everybody.
I have always resisted using these threads as a recruitment tool but more as an information tool and diverse opinion is always healthy so I hope you continue to be successful and I also hope the professional trading rooms also continue to be successful but for the right reasons!

 

[A Dashing Blade]

(You are) better off at a quality FCM giving no split paying a fraction more in round turns and 500 odd quid for the same TT x trader platform as at an arcade, with the only minus being that your 1/100th of a millisecond slower than a DMA arcade . . . .

+ you don't have DMA ie you're not joining the queue, therefore you either have to trade at market or join the bid/offer (ie buy at bid / sell at offer) and will only get a fill if the market trades through

(happy to be corrected)

 

[ZurichTrader]

A Dashing Blade,

On an electronic exchange, you will still be joining the same queue regardless of your connectivity. The difference is, the better your latency, the quicker you get to the queue so your position can be higher up. If you are joining bid/offer this can mean getting a fill ahead of others.

Stated another way, if you really know where to buy and sell, you will get fills more often if you are direct connected than not. Whether this is relevant depends a lot on your trading style.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Its gonna depend on how many sockets the firm has leased from the exchange tho (?).

Eg 2 (say) bund traders sharing one socket. Bund is first in first out. Trader 1 bids at (say) 123.00 and is (say) number 500 in the queue. Trader 2 enters a few seconds later (same price) and is (say) 600th in the queue, Trader1 is now bumped back to 601st place,

Ie Only one order can be placed at the same price for any instrument per socket

Again, happy to be corrected

 

[ZurichTrader]

My example was a comparison of a home or office based trader with broker connection via internet for orders and a trader with direct exchange facilities. The comparison you make is a different scenario. I do not know enough about the data link to the exchange to say whether you are right or wrong - though I do suspect that it is not correct given that to join the bid you will need to place a limit and receive an order ID from the exchange and that order will sit in the exchange systems until filled or cancelled regardless of whether another trader on the same link also bids.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Hmmmmmmmmm
Sounds about right
<goes off to speak to the tekky's>

 

[ZurichTrader]

I would be interested in anything that you manage to find out!

Thanks
Jason

 

[cashcow]

Hi All,

I've seen quite a few comments from people about reliability of their own offices vs an arcade and thought I would give my two cents. At the moment there is probably some truth in the statements made that arcades are more reliable, this however is rapidly changing.
Whereas a few years ago, a fixed line would cost you an arm and a leg, your own fixed line to a data-centre is pretty cheap now. Combine this with solutions like CQG-Trader and TT-Net which manage orders directly at the exchange/co-lo and you have a very reliable solution. In these solutions the trading software is providing the failover. With this solution you are using a fixed line, as relialble as any a trading arcade would have.
As with everything, solutions such as TT-Net are expensive because they provide the failover and necessary support, but no doubt this will come down in price.
Once these solutions have their minor problems sorted out and the price reduces, as it naturally will, then I see the advantages that arcades now have seriously reduced. It will be possible to have a full-failover environment running from your office at home.
Does anyone know if a large enough group of traders could get set up with TT-Net anywhere in the City and what would be involved?

 

[weakpunter]

just to update this thread , and to fill in some blanks and once more to explain my reasoning why arcades have gone by their sell by date ,as most who have read my post you are aware that after 12 years at arcades i now do my trading via an fcm,within this thread i have not heard one good argument either from an arcades rep or anyone else for that matter ,today my trading is varied i predominantly trade bunds but have also developed an algo or automated trade through x traders autotrader function, my fcm has hosted my strategy at the equinix data centre in frankfurt which is where eurex hosts their servers, my fcm capital worth is roughly 20 times the most successful london arcades net worth and their technology makes arcades tech simply laugable they spend more on their technology than most arcades are worth, my automated autotrader or autospreader trades are hosted direct at exchanges probably quicker than any arcades my fcm said he would gladly take the pepsi challenge against any uk arcades latency.

 

[weakpunter]

to continue with from the above post,i must correct myself as i made a mistake in one of my previous posts in that i stated that fcm,s were particularly good for outright traders but it now appears that they are better than arcades for automated and autospreader trading. speaking with a good friend of mine in chicago who was a vice-president at one of the worlds largest clearers,he was adamant when he told me the whole arcade scene had died stateside circa 5 yrs ago and that over 90% of high frequency traders were now solely trading via fcm,s .the only thing i heard from arcade reps on here was they had better connectivity,well it appears thats another waffle from the arcades ,anyway thats the latest on the issue, so chaps we are 5 yrs behind the us on this and bloody stubborn about change,WAKE UP ARCADITES 3bags of desk fees and 20% split lol + tax ........no one in the US is muggy enough to do that!!

 

[pboyles]

just to update this thread , and to fill in some blanks and once more to explain my reasoning why arcades have gone by their sell by date ,as most who have read my post you are aware that after 12 years at arcades i now do my trading via an fcm,within this thread i have not heard one good argument either from an arcades rep or anyone else for that matter ,today my trading is varied i predominantly trade bunds but have also developed an algo or automated trade through x traders autotrader function, my fcm has hosted my strategy at the equinix data centre in frankfurt which is where eurex hosts their servers, my fcm capital worth is roughly 20 times the most successful london arcades net worth and their technology makes arcades tech simply laugable they spend more on their technology than most arcades are worth, my automated autotrader or autospreader trades are hosted direct at exchanges probably quicker than any arcades my fcm said he would gladly take the pepsi challenge against any uk arcades latency.

Slightly off topic but I was wondering how many contracts you can trade on the Bund without getting any/much slippage. From what you have already written it appears there would be no advantage trading from an arcade even if you are trading big size, is that correct?

 

[weakpunter]

@pboyles yes i have to say since i started this thread i have learned a hell of lot about fcm capabilities and they have plowed multiple millions in their data centres and taken most high frequency business from the arcades by offerring cutting edge tech capabilities..to any arcade reps please dont even bother challenging me you can go to eurex,s site and they mention the lowest latency solution they can provide is hosting at equinix frankfurt <5 milliseconds there is no arcade even close to that