Trading and meditation

[rols]

hmm, The kingdom of heaven lies within ?

Its been written that through trading an expansion of self awareness is a (potential) by-product.

The connection or awareness that our very being is energy (insert thermodynamics first law) and its implications ,can upon first glance , to put it as it may be said, may seem a bit odd.Yet what does this mean for our very being or our present perception of our own identity.? What should or can we use from this new learned insight into our own being ,to enhance not only our immediate and future experience but how we may reflect upon our past...?

Also then , how do we greet/see others, do we become more tolerant ? more open,honest with ourselves and others.? what about acceptance? can we accept things any easier ? situations, others,ourselves, a loss, a profit. ?

what does it all mean?..... partly now yes ,selfish reasons, but also what's next?

Before I begin I did not say anything about 'The Kingdom of heaven'. Leave all that stuff to others. David Icke and friends? If you want info about Moving Averages or the best FX platform then you're in the wrong place.

I sense the below has already been written. (By me) All I have to do is type.

Mr. Spock! You Vulcans have an uncanny insight into our Earthling souls. Both you and Charlton and Jimbo have asked many questions which I cannot presume to know the answers. I would hazard a guess that TheBramble knows more then he cares to divulge as I suspect does the absent Socrates.

By asking these questions therefore are we not already tentatively testing the illusive step which begins the afore mentioned journey of a thousand miles? Besides, you both know already that the Universe and all its contents cannot be packaged up into a few choice sound bites, so why ask? Because, as is the nature of rhetorical questions, the answers already lie within. And are they not unlike the end of a rainbow, tantalisingly close enough to see but too far away to grasp? Are we the bearers of the appropriate fortune cookies at this unique juncture? I suspect the answer is betwixt the devil and the deep blue sea and as such I sometimes(as maybe you do) wish for the bliss of ignorance of these things.

Schubert's D.956 or Wordsworth's Lines Composed a Few Miles Above Tintern Abbey or Picasso's Guernica are a few examples how of the transcandence of art can guide us, these and many more have guided me and latterly through trading I have travelled to places I had no previous conception or knowledge of - as I presume many of us here have.

But ultimately it is for ouselves to find the path which is waiting to lead us to what we believe we are seeking.

 

[fxmarkets]

I cannot presume to know the answers.

Cheers rols.

Same here mate,I saw your line and put finger to plastic squares, all questions I put forward I do with no expectations of answers but welcome any response , i'm out there looking out and in as the next person maybe, or not. And also the question although tagged on to one of your sentences is open to whoever reads it.


hmmm "everything that we perceive comes from within", from that clearly I have a question regarding the kingdom of heaven, the meaning of these things, an attempt to glance at our true essence maybe, do I have the answers? probably but they have not landed home yet , so I do not know them. no. others do? ,i'm open to it of course.

As for asking questions we ourselves know the answer to, well its an open forum and many may read and contribute further , offer unique ideas thoughts and insights be stimulated or bored whatless etc and not.

Some may see this as Passive Head drilling....is that a negative? or a bad association, dunno. how should these questions be dealt with, I assume those who know will know and respond appropriately including the response of saying nothing if thats the answer.

theres no limits is there? am I asking myself that ? yes ,ok the answers no then......

hmm, cocoa time...

 

[ivorm]

Ivor

Now look what you've done - you've started me off on one of my metaphysical tracks !!......

.....There is a kind of "energy" flowing in the universe - background universal energy or life force. It manifests itself physically as matter and as the various forms of energy that we are used to dealing with such as heat, light, electricity.

It connects all of use together and we are all part of it. Thoughts are part of this......

Charlton

It's intersting to hear your views, Charlton. And those of the others who are contributing to this thread.

I absolutely agree with you about "energy". Since I have been using my Meditation Machine, I really feel I am more connected to the universe and the universal energy. I suppose the energy is the 'Tao' of Chinese philosophy and the 'prana' of Yoga.

And it's interesting that our Western science is beginning to confirm many of the concepts behind ancient Eastern thinking. (A great book to read on this subject, incidentally, is The Tao of Physics, by Fritjof Capra. A bit dated now, but still very readable).

I think this discussion is very relevant to trading. Indeed, I think it's relevant to any occupation - there's nothing special about trading, however much we like to think there is !

Regards,

Ivor

 

[swededemon]

Wanting, or needing, wether or not attainable...the human mind searches for solutions to fulfill the 'wanting'. Some people have greater will than others. Evolution requires solutions to needs and wanting, at any level. So, wanting/needs = solution/evolution. But, you are correct, Bramble, there is an endless supply of wanting.

 

[Charlton]

Mr. Spock! You Vulcans have an uncanny insight into our Earthling souls. Both you and Charlton and Jimbo have asked many questions which I cannot presume to know the answers. I would hazard a guess that TheBramble knows more then he cares to divulge as I suspect does the absent Socrates.............................

By asking these questions therefore are we not already tentatively testing the illusive step which begins the afore mentioned journey of a thousand miles? .

Rols

Forgive me, my questions are not directed AT you, but were all prompted by points you raised in your posting. You turned on the tap.

I will often throw in rhetorical questions and not expect answers. Hopefully it will stimulate discussion and new ways of looking within and without, even though these are both the same.

Charlton

 

[rols]

Rols

Forgive me, my questions are not directed AT you, but were all prompted by points you raised in your posting. You turned on the tap.

I will often throw in rhetorical questions and not expect answers. Hopefully it will stimulate discussion and new ways of looking within and without, even though these are both the same.

Charlton

Questions. Asking questions is always more satisfying than giving answers. Why?

A few thoughts on the obvious. Why is the obvious so hard to see? When one truly senses the answer does hindsight then blur our vision and force us to retrace our hard earned steps in a vain attempt to witness our future past simultaneously thus transforming the obvious into a misremembered idea at best? I would like to express this concept better but my words sadly seem to fail me. How do we escape this loop and skip over to the parallel path we can all sense is just over the horizon?

An admirer once asked JS Bach how his virtuosity on the organ had been achieved (we're talking Silbermann cathedral organ here not that kind of organ) and his reply was
"It's simple. All I do is put my hands and my feet in the right place at the right time."
Is this not what we are all striving towards as Traders? An effortless knowing vituosity yet so many of the words associated with trading imply the opposite. Beat, Bully, Conquer allied with ridiculously complex mathematical systems and formulae when all we desire to do is the same as any virtuoso performer - to play. 'Playing the markets' seems an obvious approach IMO and achievable once one has mastered the game from the inside out by observing it from within in all dimensions.

I don't know if anybody has played chess to a high level but my own rapid advancement came about through discovering and playing 3D chess. After playing this version for a while the 2D version seemed to be a piece of cake and I was seeing many new moves and strategies.

Taking us back full circle then perhaps this is what seeking the obvious and perceiving from within through meditation or whatever means will achieve for us in our trading?

Or maybe there are no answers. Just questions.

 

[tblackw320]

Yes , I meditate. It helps me have a better awareness in all areas of my life. Unfortunately I am still human and olny have brief moments of perfection.

 

[swededemon]

I think we all need help or inspiration, some more than others. Does it matter what form it comes in? We need negativity to understand positivity. Psychology of people is an absolute minefield, and the only hand in life we can play is determined by our genetics. Can all people change? Can some people change? A eutopian world where everybody is a winner? Where would that leave the markets?

 

[fxmarkets]

Questions. Asking questions is always more satisfying than giving answers. Why?

A few thoughts on the obvious. Why is the obvious so hard to see? Just questions.

hmmm, well Socrates, I remember would often transmit something along the lines of , "the answer you seek is in the question"

Now then "why is the obvious so hard to see?" its not is it , wev'e been hoodwinking ourselves.

Is it as simple as obtaining the answer ,being "the obvious is easy to see yet its hard for us to accept. Has to be doesnt it ,the obvious by its definition is obvious but accepting it ,allowing the information in, maybe be a different kettle of you know what.

The obvious is there, we dont want to know about it .... too simple a truth or reality to go along with? do we reject the obvious at some level to test ourselves by putting ourselves in complicated situations that we really shouldn't do ? have we misbehaved ,cocked up, and so reject the obvious on occassion to tell ourselves off?

shouldnt we tell ourselves its o.k to use /accept the obvious route, the simple route?

...

 

[swededemon]

Is obvious, basic? Is obvious, logical?

 

[Charlton]

Like lightening

Is obvious, basic? Is obvious, logical?

swededemon

Obvious, like beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder.

To some, obvious is the superficial untruth. To others, obvious is the deep truth.

This site is scattered with examples of both.

Obvious truth strikes you like a lightening bolt if you are ready to accept it

Charlton

 

[fxmarkets]

hello swededemon, basic, well as I was brewing a mug of tea I was thinking or looking at if people find it hard or in some way to accept a life of simpleness, is it difficult to accept ,hmmm for some sure

im linking obvious/basic/simple./logical yes , but its this blocking of it at times when individuals really can choose an alternative , how individuals can stay tuned to be accepting of the obvious.

Obviously ! its in everyones best interest ? (or is it painful at times) linking that to a trading context one is/has to be/ open to viewing the obvious, holding in mind how the speculative packs are likely to be functioning.

 

[rols]

swededemon

Obvious, like beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder.

To some, obvious is the superficial untruth. To others, obvious is the deep truth.

This site is scattered with examples of both.

Obvious truth strikes you like a lightening bolt if you are ready to accept it

Charlton

Is this the trader's eureka moment I wonder?

Is this like rediscovering something long known yet forgotten? Yet how can something so obvious be unnoticed when it is staring us in the face? The key may well be to accept the truth before we can see it but I believe there is much more. Elliot expreses this concept but I forget which poem...

....the end of our exploration
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.

 

[Splitlink]

hmmm, well Socrates, I remember would often transmit something along the lines of , "the answer you seek is in the question"

Now then "why is the obvious so hard to see?" its not is it , wev'e been hoodwinking ourselves.

Is it as simple as obtaining the answer ,being "the obvious is easy to see yet its hard for us to accept. Has to be doesnt it ,the obvious by its definition is obvious but accepting it ,allowing the information in, maybe be a different kettle of you know what.

The obvious is there, we dont want to know about it .... too simple a truth or reality to go along with? do we reject the obvious at some level to test ourselves by putting ourselves in complicated situations that we really shouldn't do ? have we misbehaved ,cocked up, and so reject the obvious on occassion to tell ourselves off?

shouldnt we tell ourselves its o.k to use /accept the obvious route, the simple route?

...

Are you saying that the obvious choice is, always, the best one? Once the decision has been taken there is no turning back. The choice has been made and the path taken for better or for worse. A man's bad choice is another man's golden opportunity, if he can see and take it., and this is how we all, in some infinitesimal way, alter the whole future direction of humankind.

Split

 

[fxmarkets]

Are you saying that the obvious choice is, always, the best one? Once the decision has been taken there is no turning back. The choice has been made and the path taken for better or for worse. A man's bad choice is another man's golden opportunity, if he can see and take it., and this is how we all, in some infinitesimal way, alter the whole future direction of humankind.

Split

good point splitlink, and keeping it on a trading connection, the best one? perhaps when we accept the obvious and act on it (even if we accept the obvious as standing aside etc) then its the option to use at that time . Holding in mind that the obvious is there, always .

hmm but if its not obvious, then its obvious ,that its not , yes but maybe its been an acceptance issuse aswell.... and what about learning the obvious or is it learning to be open to receive the obvious? ..

But we need to allow information in and enable the obvious to update maybe and accept that as a new obvious and again use this option.


What I get a sense of is being open to the possibilty that we can operate to knowing the obvious ,continually.

querie all the above of course.

fx.

 

[rols]

good point splitlink, and keeping it on a trading connection, the best one? perhaps when we accept the obvious and act on it (even if we accept the obvious as standing aside etc) then its the option to use at that time . Holding in mind that the obvious is there, always .

hmm but if its not obvious, then its obvious ,that its not , yes but maybe its been an acceptance issuse aswell.... and what about learning the obvious or is it learning to be open to receive the obvious? ..

But we need to allow information in and enable the obvious to update maybe and accept that as a new obvious and again use this option.


What I get a sense of is being open to the possibilty that we can operate to knowing the obvious ,continually.

querie all the above of course.

fx.

Setting metaphysics aside for a moment and turning from the sublime to the ridiculously simple or simply ridiculous depending on your perception.

How does sensing the obvious apply to trading? Here I refer to the basic trading action of opening a trade at point A and closing at point B. I realise that this ground has been covered before and it will be again in the future. I seem to recall ASC proposing a similar exercise in the Unfashionable Advice thread.

If we take the trading cliche that most traders get it wrong most of the time (according to statistics and many of us have been part of this unfortunate percentage at some stage I presume) what proportion of these 'wrong' trades relate to stupidity or ignorance, personal issues such as belief systems, or the plain inability to see the obvious. To the successful trader, the notional 10%, their idea of the obvious must be contrary to the others.

My dentist successfully quit smoking a few months ago and I asked him how he did it because nicotine is proported to be more addictive than heroin and targets the same pleasure receptors in the brain as cocaine, so suddenly removing this for many creates an overwhelming sense of loss and need. His response was, 'I told myself that I had never smoked.'

What if we were to boot up out screens and tell ourselves that we had never had a losing trade or even suppose we were about to embark upon our very first trade? To arrive where we started and know the place for the first time... Resist the temptation to analyse. Just a plain bar chart over any time frame. I propose that the obvious will be right there in front of your eyes. This experiment can also be applied to watching price action only (no charts) preferably in a liquid market.

Be interested to hear any thoughts on this....

 

[fxmarkets]

If we take the trading cliche that most traders get it wrong most of the time (according to statistics and many of us have been part of this unfortunate percentage at some stage I presume) what proportion of these 'wrong' trades relate to stupidity or ignorance, personal issues such as belief systems, or the plain inability to see the obvious. To the successful trader, the notional 10%, their idea of the obvious must be contrary to the others.

just a quickie on this, agree and thats what or why i refered to previously with "holding in mind how speculation packs function"

of course subjective or is it obvious? Getting from one to the other..... thats an individuals personal journey and varying speed of growth is unique to all , not sure what ingredients need to go into the mixing bowl as best recipe for knowledge nurture cake .

But this pops up

Conduct... effecting Ability, obtaining Merit. (as in achieved)
(initially triggered me to think from one of Socs. postings highlight those words)

I was going to say the obvious is made to look obvious but its at times not what it seems.. crikey X files ..

Suppose these things can start to fragment off into many splints........

 

[rols]

j
I was going to say the obvious is made to look obvious but its at times not what it seems.. crikey X files ..

A small digression if I may?
Would this be a fair assessment of Dr. S?

Another unique Vulcan ability exhibited by Spock is a type of ESP that the Vulcans refer to as "mind-melding." He can merge his mind with that of another intelligence and read its thoughts. While he will use this ability when circumstances make it absolutely necessary, he dislikes doing so because the process requires emotional contact as well. It robs him of his stoic mask and revealing too much of his inner self. The physical cost of this process is also very high.

Please continue and see where we go. It may be a cul-de-sac or appear that way. Nonetheless 'the detour is worth the effort' as they say in the guide books.

 

[fxmarkets]

A small digression if I may?
Would this be a fair assessment of Dr. S?

[

No.... because the Dr. is A Mr. highlighting that at times, all is not what it may seem. hehehe youve been hoodwinking yourself that its Dr. how long ?

 

[rols]

No.... because the Dr. is A Mr. highlighting that at times, all is not what it may seem. hehehe youve been hoodwinking yourself that its Dr. how long ?

Illusive and infuriatingly obvious is how I remember Spocco. That Vulcan death grip has a lot to answer for.

I was going to say the obvious is made to look obvious but its at times not what it seems..
...

But please continue.....