Trading advice pls?

[doughboy877]

Ok,
Im new to this t2w site, and have just been browsing for about 40 minutes, and all i can say is that this whole place seems to be really helpful, so many people giving thoughtful replies, i only hope one day i will be able to do the same.
Anyway, im 21, at uni doing some degree, which im really not motivated to do, but i gotta do it cos i want to work in finance, as a trader or broker.
Recently i have been trading fx demo accounts, and all of them have been profitable, except the first one where it was more of a novelty to have all the charts and trying to make huge profs in 5 minutes, not really understanding what was going on. There has always been something really alluring about the charts and numbers flashing on a screen to me, and whilst all my uni mates think im stupid for reading the FT and investors chronicle, i really dont care, as im just trying to get ahead, and it interests me hugely, always has. Reading liars poker and barbarians at the gate e.t.c all v.interesting
BUT...
I am in serious danger of not finishing my degree, seems like a waste of time, especially when my whole life ive always thought that common sense and people skills are the most important things, which i (think!!) i have. This whole uni lark is getting really old, great we can go out everynight, see the same people, and still no one is thinking about what they wanna do, and it just seems like im in the wrong place around people who arent helping me get ahead.
I dont even know what im really saying or getting at, just venting some frustration i suppose.
If i were to drop out, but had an internship before, and they really like me (hopefully), does anyone know what chance i would have of getting a job in a new fx brokers or similar if they see in me what i (and others) see in me, i mean, what does a degree really achieve in terms of helping how well you can perform in a job. Not disrespecting people with degrees obviously, i just dont see that its a valuable use of time (my time), the most important commodity.
Wow ive written a lot.
Any replies will be greatly recieved as i dont really know what im asking.
What is my situation. Im really confused. :smart:

 

[nine]

It proves you can finish a degree.

But you don't even say what you are studying.

 

[Mathemagician]

Finish. Employers will want to see that you can follow through. Plus, there is always the possibility that you have a drawdown out of the gate. (I know, perish the thought.) Should this happen (or any of 100 other random reasons your first job might not work out) you'll be a college dropout with a poor track record and short employment history. The prospects for such individuals are generally not so good. Exercise sound risk management in life as in trading.

In the meantime, ignore your friends' lack of motivation and focus on pursuing your own dreams. Open a small trading account. When not trading, look into the difference between what a broker is/does and what a trader is/does. You don't want to tell a prospective employer that you "want to be a trader or a broker"!

jj

 

[westernforce]

A good education is never wasted, besides after uni you will come away with heaps more education than just what the "profs" taught you.

 

[doughboy877]

thankyou for the replies, thats what i mean about this place, seems to be a lot of activity which is GREAT. I have opened an account with barclays stockbrokers, and still demoing with fxcm.
That was exactly what i percieved to be the case, it proves you can finish a degree, guess i will plough on, im studying marketing btw. I want to be a trader ultimatley, (really not sure how good at maths you need to be, obviously good, and im doing a quants module in my degree) but if that doesnt work out, i would want to be a broker. im not prepared to be picky in a world where the jobs are so much more highly paid if youre good than most other places. Broking will be fun aswell im sure, obviously i wouldnt tell an employer i want to be a trader or broker, still got a year to go, so i can work it out. in the mean time, i think a punt on gold, maybe in a fund, merill lynch gold and general?? any thoughts

 

[trader_dante]

"im not prepared to be picky in a world where the jobs are so much more highly paid if youre good than most other places"

Sounds like you don't have the determination to be a trader.

Just my 0.2c

Brokers make a very good living though

 

[doughboy877]

i would respond to that by saying that my only qualms are that i dont know how good at maths you need to be!!! i am the most ambitious person i know, and id take a trading position over a broker any day, but if my maths is not up 2 scratch, then i need to be realistic. thats why im trying to get a gauge on the maths levels, cos you always hear that maths needs to be really strong, although ive spoken to forex traders who say maths isnt as important as people say. im good with numbers and people and im money hungry.

 

[Mathemagician]

Take as many stats courses as you can.

jj

 

[0007]

Ok,
Im new to this t2w site, and have just been browsing for about 40 minutes, and all i can say is that this whole place seems to be really helpful, so many people giving thoughtful replies, i only hope one day i will be able to do the same.
Anyway, im 21, at uni doing some degree, which im really not motivated to do, but i gotta do it cos i want to work in finance, as a trader or broker.
Recently i have been trading fx demo accounts, and all of them have been profitable, except the first one where it was more of a novelty to have all the charts and trying to make huge profs in 5 minutes, not really understanding what was going on. There has always been something really alluring about the charts and numbers flashing on a screen to me, and whilst all my uni mates think im stupid for reading the FT and investors chronicle, i really dont care, as im just trying to get ahead, and it interests me hugely, always has. Reading liars poker and barbarians at the gate e.t.c all v.interesting
BUT...
I am in serious danger of not finishing my degree, seems like a waste of time, especially when my whole life ive always thought that common sense and people skills are the most important things, which i (think!!) i have. This whole uni lark is getting really old, great we can go out everynight, see the same people, and still no one is thinking about what they wanna do, and it just seems like im in the wrong place around people who arent helping me get ahead.
I dont even know what im really saying or getting at, just venting some frustration i suppose.
If i were to drop out, but had an internship before, and they really like me (hopefully), does anyone know what chance i would have of getting a job in a new fx brokers or similar if they see in me what i (and others) see in me, i mean, what does a degree really achieve in terms of helping how well you can perform in a job. Not disrespecting people with degrees obviously, i just dont see that its a valuable use of time (my time), the most important commodity.
Wow ive written a lot.
Any replies will be greatly recieved as i dont really know what im asking.
What is my situation. Im really confused. :smart:

I'm not surprised that you are somewhat confused. The education system has been devalued over the years and now, many youngsters are not really sure what it's for and how it can best benefit our Youth, which, after all is our future. This applies to the politicians also, who are more interested in keeping dole queues short than preparing for the future.

You don't say what you are reading at Uni - sounds as if you have just drifted into it like many others who just accept it as the next stage of training. In fact, many ordinary degrees now just take the place of "A" levels from years ago when there was a decent standard. It's important that you finish your degree because without it you will be unable to convince most employers that you have any determination / persistence / ability. Many degrees don't qualify you to do anything. However, if you can leave Uni with the ability to be numerate, literate, self-dependent, capable of logical and critical thinking then you will be streets ahead of the pack.

Your quote "This whole uni lark is getting really old, great we can go out everynight, see the same people, and still no one is thinking about what they wanna do, and it just seems like im in the wrong place around people who arent helping me get ahead." shows great awareness in my opinion, and could be the first step in getting yourself sorted out.

If you know that you want to work in the financial sector - then research it as well as you can (that's not just trading fx demo accts) speak / read / write and suck out the knowledge of every medium that's willing to communicate actively or passively. I've never traded professionally but if i wanted to get into that business i'd make sure i'd had contact with such people and learned all i could about both the essentials and the peripherals (eg do you like getting up at 5.00am every day with a commute to the City and its attendant pain-in-the-ar*e fringe benefits - like one of my in-laws' does ?

What would I do now?
1. Map your future out on a postcard (anything bigger gets too detailed)
2. Critically examine, discuss and review it to assess whether or not you have the brains, determination, staying power, money to achieve it.
3. Loop back through 1 & 2 until you have a realistic plan.
4. Go for it

In my experience it's down to 80% application 20% ability. If you've got real ability and can get your act together (easier said than done) the sky's the limit.

Good luck.

 

[tomorton]

doughboy877

The rules of life according to me and Mark Twain are -
1. Get money
2. Find enjoyable, legal, and safe ways to get more money - your degree will make a huge difference here, at least in the first few years
3. Get more money

 

[shadowninja]

Degrees are like strapping a matress to your back... something to fall back on. Sorry.

Degrees get you jobs when you blow your account so you can build up your account for trading again.

 

[0007]

Degrees are like strapping a matress to your back... something to fall back on. Sorry.

Degrees get you jobs when you blow your account so you can build up your account for trading again.

Never quite thought of it like that But when you think about it ...... that's quite insightful ! :smart:

 

[Windowsill]

Ok,
Im new to this t2w site, and have just been browsing for about 40 minutes, and all i can say is that this whole place seems to be really helpful, so many people giving thoughtful replies, i only hope one day i will be able to do the same.
Anyway, im 21, at uni doing some degree, which im really not motivated to do, but i gotta do it cos i want to work in finance, as a trader or broker.
Recently i have been trading fx demo accounts, and all of them have been profitable, except the first one where it was more of a novelty to have all the charts and trying to make huge profs in 5 minutes, not really understanding what was going on. There has always been something really alluring about the charts and numbers flashing on a screen to me, and whilst all my uni mates think im stupid for reading the FT and investors chronicle, i really dont care, as im just trying to get ahead, and it interests me hugely, always has. Reading liars poker and barbarians at the gate e.t.c all v.interesting
BUT...
I am in serious danger of not finishing my degree, seems like a waste of time, especially when my whole life ive always thought that common sense and people skills are the most important things, which i (think!!) i have. This whole uni lark is getting really old, great we can go out everynight, see the same people, and still no one is thinking about what they wanna do, and it just seems like im in the wrong place around people who arent helping me get ahead.
I dont even know what im really saying or getting at, just venting some frustration i suppose.
If i were to drop out, but had an internship before, and they really like me (hopefully), does anyone know what chance i would have of getting a job in a new fx brokers or similar if they see in me what i (and others) see in me, i mean, what does a degree really achieve in terms of helping how well you can perform in a job. Not disrespecting people with degrees obviously, i just dont see that its a valuable use of time (my time), the most important commodity.
Wow ive written a lot.
Any replies will be greatly recieved as i dont really know what im asking.
What is my situation. Im really confused. :smart:

Finish the degree.

That is your priority.

You don't know what your future holds, its intangible.

At least a degree is concrete, whether you think it or not, it shows achievement. Alternatively, three years not achieving anything ........doh.

 

[Atilla]

i would respond to that by saying that my only qualms are that i dont know how good at maths you need to be!!! i am the most ambitious person i know, and id take a trading position over a broker any day, but if my maths is not up 2 scratch, then i need to be realistic. thats why im trying to get a gauge on the maths levels, cos you always hear that maths needs to be really strong, although ive spoken to forex traders who say maths isnt as important as people say. im good with numbers and people and im money hungry.

Maths is very important in my opinion. The connections are abstract but mathematics can even help you with music. There is pure maths and applied maths. Either way it will help you in everything you do without you being aware of how. It links independent cells in your brain. You see things you wouldn't have. It develops mental agility and allows you to multi-task and evaluate different options in fraction of a time it may take someone else.

When explaining stuff (anything) some people will grasp it instantly and know what you are talking about before you finished. We've all heard of the expression penny dropped! Other people are not necessarily dense but not bright enough to add two and two together and you find your self waiting for the cows to come home?

Don't dilly dally.

Finish what you started!

Don't be a loser!

Don't think you know more than you do? It's always good to re-appraise and re-evaluate but University is like a holiday camp imo. Meet different people from all different walks of life and see what makes them tick. Study them as well as your subject matter. As you say develop your social skills. Read psychology and anything else that interests you. Do you really feel qualified to make the decision as to whether university is right for you or not based on your limited experience? If so by all means do it but think two, three or even four times. You are right to get multiple opinions...

My university years were some of the best years of my life. I'm now married with two children to that good looking girl couple of doors down the corridor... We all make mistakes :cheesy:.


Stick with it and enjoy all that you do...

 

[doughboy877]

Thankyou all for your responses, i am slowly trying to take them on board, although i hate being slow at anything, there are such a range of opinions.
Shadowninja, i am inclined to agree with you, so many of my contemporaries joke about it, but for me its serious, they are happy with mediocrity and simply use uni as an 'extension of youth', and sure, there is value in that, but ive had my fun, now its time to make something of this time i have, and i feel ready to tackle anything that comes my way head on, like i always do.

And for those of you that still claim i dont say what im studying, im doing marketing at newcastle uni, not the polytechnic.
I recently secured an internship at an FX retail company, in the same vein as acm e.t.c, not inclined to say where though, as you never know when this stuff will come back and bite you.

To the person who had the 3 rules, (mark twain e.t.c.), i love your thinking, comes straight out of a book i imagined in my hungry brain.

Obviously im learning all i can, and i reguarly come into contact with people from the financial world, as my dad works in this arena, again not going to say where, as they are in the news quite a lot atm, and never know whether this info could come back and bite.

All i can say is, im gonna finsh the degree, no probs, i just hate how regurgitating "facts" from a textbook constitutes intelligence these days, however, i also understand that it is an achievement to waste 3 years doing it, just to prove you can do it, wink wink.

And atilla, i kno what you mean about maths, i am seeing its benefits in the everyday sense.

 

[Paulds11]

Well heres my take on this situation
1. if you dont like your degree change quickly
2if you cannot change because you are too far committed then think about splitting the subject matter e.g. Biology with computing or similar
3. Your are not serving yourself at all by considering leaving at this stage, future employers would see it as a cop out, a lack of discipline in following through with that which you started and probably the biggest trait required by traders is simply discipline in following through your strategy and learning your subject matter. If you think that Trading a demo FX account for a couple of months is somehow training to adjust to the markets you need a reality check because there is so much more youll need to learn than that and most traders even trading their own money rarely break out into consistency before even 2 yrs of intensive trading.. (ok it can be done but dont assume to early you know what its like)
4. In addition realise the climate at the moment.. investment houses will be shedding jobs soon in huge numbers as the recession strikes, that will increase competition in the market and you need to know most investment banks dont consider these days many people who dont have a professional degree like an Misc or MBA so for you to cop out of your degree now?.. well.. what do you think that says knowing your competing with MBA holders and masters degree or professional qualification holders?

5. You could consider the prop route to Trading but youd do very well to select 5 to 10 and pick up the damned phone and ask them.. see what kind of response you get and tailor your goals and motivations towards attaining those goals.
6. Realise though that the hours are long it isnt easy at all, youll be putting in 12 hr days at Investment banks and maybe a bit less at props but if you dont get used to that idea quickly your going to fail to stick at the game.

In summary, it is worrying that you are so blaze about your exams, it smacks of defeatism and yet there is so much to study about the markets trust me when I tell you its like doing a PhD in economics if you have no background in it and Im a background in Biochemistry so Im used to the complex. Personally I think you need to think prop or if you have access to money think about learning your own strategies and doing it yourself. In any case If you complete your degree youll be proud of yourself for a long time to come in your life and later you could return to take something higher.. if you dont complete it you will hit 35 and wonder what the hell you were thinking as you may begin to explore expanding your horizons or changing your careers.. you just never know in life.. you are at a crossroads.. dont mess it up with this half baked nonsense about leaving a degree your already started. Attach more value to what you are doing by connecting with the things it gives you. Caveat Bill Gates was a drop out but have you dot an opening your committed to? ....

If you were at the right stage in your progress your thought would not be should I drop out, itll be Im not sure I can continue because this is going so swimmingly well, in which case you wouldnt be here asking for that feedback because thats a question only you can answer alone. PS Trading demo money is absolutely not the same as trading real money at all.. do not be fooled by this because emotions are not clouding your responses and that takes usually 2 years to fully master if your at it daily.. dont kid yourself dude.. open your eyes.. trading is learning to fly you need to know how to respond for so many more variables and situations (startegies) and that costs money! either yours or the props or the banks... hope that helps


modify but finish your degree
You are young you dont know it yet but you are having the time of your life, modify your friends, change your mental focus away from that superiority complex you have OR get into like minded circles with people who will chalenge you.. your at university for gods sake. Enjoy significant others.. realise that Uni is meant to be a social expereince and you seem to be missing this, it gets a whole lot harder after this ..dont mess this up .. you sound unfocused and far too nonchelant to be taken seriously.. sorry but you need a boot up the jacksee for your own benefit, good luck if your behind on your course work dig deep my freind..
Paul

 

[doughboy877]

I dont think youve quite understood me.
I am going to finish my degree, just venting how it doesnt seem challenging, i mean, 3 out of my 7 exams are multiple choice, another is open book, another was coursework which no one did properly but we all got glowing grades.
I love the social side of uni, i have made some great friends and built up a good network base, its just getting old thats all. I cant modify my degree, too late, and im no uni dropout.
To respond to your comments about me thinking i know it all, i couldnt disagree more, i know nothing, no one can ever know it all, it is all about extending the knowledge we already have, thats why i read books on trading, i read business sections in papers, i read the economist, investors chronicle, fx daily webpages, as this is what really interests me.
I understand that it is an achievement to finish a degree, well done in your case. And i think it is you with the superiority complex, i do not think like that, i know i am doing all that is necessary to get ahead of my peers, and i know that i must finish my degree, it was only ever a small thought in my head, and i now know what everyone thinks, point taken.
i love how i seem 'unfocused', hahaha, i am to focused, thats why im not loving uni as much as i should, i am to focused on what im doing after uni, i even helped set up an investment society at uni.
And another thing, ive heard from people who know these things, that once youre in that interview room, your degree doesnt even matter, and to be honest, if i was an employer, thats how id play things, having seen what it takes to get a degree, probably easier than a levels, its even more on a plate, especially with these multiple choice, which i swear is just common sense. Last year i didnt go to a single lecture cos i knew it was multiple choice for this exam, and still walked away with 72%. Im happy.
anyway, thanks for your advice, i have taken it on board.

 

[Paulds11]

I dont think youve quite understood me.
anyway, thanks for your advice, i have taken it on board.

Dude.. good!
I did my job then. Im glad you respnded the way you did, and admittedly I decided I wasnt going to give you an easy ride at all just to shake you up.

Please continue.. but dont post complaining mail, the lesson.. specificity is always required.

Just be careful though.. I didnt spend much time in lectures at all 1st and second year some but the third year is a killer and in hindsight I could have easily come away with a 2;1 but scraped a 2:2 because I just got out of sync towards the end and left my self with far too much to do to late as a result of complacentcy .

Have a good one, if you have time over the summer, learn how to hedge your position with Options.... admitedly from your recent post it sounds a lot better than the first impression I had reading your first mail.. I stand corrected.. but Im not sorry..seen to many capable guys flunk out.. I only meant to motivate anyway.. think I did my job well..

Paul

 

[doughboy877]

Thanks paul,
I like people like you,you did shake me up, and i was unhappy with myself also that i hadnt put myself across in the proper light. I like to give my mates a hard time at uni cos a lot of them are really intelligent, quick witted people, and it frustrates me when i see them not even trying to take interests, and when they do, its more wishy washy, you know, talking about "sub prime crisis" to act like theyre interested, when its just phrase dropping from the news. Having said that, i have got a couple of mates who are genuinley interested, and do keep me on my toes as they will observe something i missed, and vice versa, which i find v.healthy.
Cheers mr motivator.

Hows your trading going?
Why do you recommed hedging with options? i made some good trades hedging with currency pairs, (check the ranging trend of the CHF/JPY)

 

[fifty2aces]

Why do you recommed hedging with options? i made some good trades hedging with currency pairs, (check the ranging trend of the CHF/JPY)

I could be way off, but I think he's talking metaphorically - sticking with a degree that you probably won't need as a "hedge" in case other plans don't work out. What you said about most employers not being too bothered about degree once you get to the interview room is probably not far off, but the problem is getting an interview in the first place - your CV doesn't give a huge opportunity to argue your case, so things like exam results are an easy way to pick between 2 candidates.

As a footnote, all this talk of "easy degrees" makes me wish I hadn't picked such a hard one! Not long till freedom though...