Tottenham Riots

[Black Swan]

How do second homes disposses anyone exactly? The whole purpose of most of them is to rent them out. If you aren't renting it then you aren't making money, if you aren't making money then you aren't paying off the mortgage on the property.

Renting allows people who are too poor/who have a crappy credit history to have a roof over their heads and yes, naturally, they pay a premium in the sense that they don't have any cumulative benefits from their monthly payments in the way someone with a mortgage does (i.e. you get to own the property in the end).

Renting out properties is no joke, bad tenants are *****.

"Buy land, 'cause God ain't makin' any more of it." Will Rogers (I heard it on The Sopranos though )

Lol...the new landlord class in the UK has taken in excess of 1000000 properties out of the potential hands of ftbs..getting a buy to let mortgage, renting off the bank to then rent out is madness. If the renter can pay the landlords mortgage they could pay a mortgage of their own. This new landlord class offers nothing they were a useful vehicle for banks to park debt and excess liquidity, prices are down at 1999 levels in certain USA states, that's where parts of the UK are headed..

 

[jthetrader]

People that are too poor to buy houses are too poor because house prices are too high.

Perhaps, but there has never been a massive property-owning class historically; we've just had the illusion of it. 50 or 60 years ago people who weren't middle or upper class rented and that was it.

This in turn is caused by increased demand.

Yes but wouldn't that demand be there anyway to wit people need a house, whether they are renting or slowly buying it?

This increased demand is made worse by people like Atilla.

I'm not saying it's wrong - just that Atilla is quite the Commie on here. As such, it would be interesting how he justifies this as opposed to just redistributing his additional wealth to the poor.

I'm surprised anyone on here is anything other than Thatcherite, I have encountered more socialism here than I thought I would. If working behind a desk in an office is an abstraction from the process of production what is working behind a desk in your house trading units of currency? I imagine traders come pretty high on the list of communist targets.

 

[jthetrader]

Lol...the new landlord class in the UK has taken in excess of 1000000 properties out of the potential hands of ftbs..getting a buy to let mortgage, renting off the bank to then rent out is madness. If the renter can pay the landlords mortgage they could pay a mortgage of their own. This new landlord class offers nothing they were a useful vehicle for banks to park debt and excess liquidity, prices are down at 1999 levels in certain USA states, that's where parts of the UK are headed..

I'm not saying it is the most efficient way to distribut property, but homes are seen as an investment these days and if prices fall then that is bad feedback to the market, it would be much better to at least preserve the illusion of rising house prices by injecting money into the system. Not to mention the fact pensions are being cut for public sector workers (not that many of them are landlords).

The new landlord class must have offered something? Surely the banks didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts. In effect, for it to work, one of two things had to happen:

1) Landlord has larger amount of cash upfront than renter can provide, i.e. on a £100,000 house he puts up £20,000 and as such the bank only need lend £80,000.

2) Landlord is supplementing the rental income with his own additional income in order to make mortgage payments.

Let's say the landlords were just leeches, they were paying £1,000 a month in mortgage payments and getting £1,500 a month in rent. If the tenant can pay £1,500 a month in rent why wouldn't he have just taken out a mortgage rather than renting? Possibly, in some cases, this is because he doesn't want to settle down in a particular place or can't find a property he wants to remain in on a more permanent basis, but generally people would rather own than rent.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Went outside last night and it was like effing Beirut lol.

Burning house, car and loud helicopter lulz aplenty. Was like one of those old school american civil type wars where enemies line up and have to reload muskets lol. Loads of fireworks shot at police. Strangely, there were lots of spectators from the surrounding areas. Most of the people doing the smashing up weren't even from the area. Lot of racists shouting sh*t too. Quite surreal.

Got boring after a while so I went to back to bed to continue nursing my crippling diarrhoea.

 

[morgan_edge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

there was another one like that with a black guy being interviewed which was also funny, but I cant find the clip now for looking.
The interviewer asked: ''why are you doing this looting?''
and he replied: ''Coz we want nice things too, innit. Things we couldn't get our hands on otherwise. The rich people with money don't understand, isn't it....''
Made me chuckle at the time.

 

[0007]

I'm surprised anyone on here is anything other than Thatcherite, I have encountered more socialism here than I thought I would. If working behind a desk in an office is an abstraction from the process of production what is working behind a desk in your house trading units of currency? I imagine traders come pretty high on the list of communist targets.

I'm surprised too. Being able to sit on my ar$e with a PC and make doshloads for a couple of hours work a day, doesn't seem to compare very fairly with someone working a 60 hour week for considerably less. I can see why the lefties get upset but their solutions don't work either.

 

[Marwan2010]

It has been the STUPID policies of blair/brown > i thought the *******s said that boom / bust cycle was past..........

 

[scose-no-doubt]

yes and when brown was in it was blairs fault and when blair was in it was majors fault and when major was in it was thatchers fault and when thatcher was in it was callahans fault and continue ad infinitum

 

[Black Swan]

jTrader

If prices fall by 20% then 50%+ of all property bought since 2006 will be underwater...currently 25% of all house bought since 2006 are underwater. House prices will not recover their peak 2007 prices for a generation or two IMHO. The banks deliberately used dick head landlords' greed to park their excess liquidity..brilliant plan

Now then back on thread, and I havnt got much time to spend on this so excuse the poor grammar etc. denying the next generation the opportunity of having any skin in the game will prove to be one of the biggest social mistakes successive govts have made.

Unemployment in the black communities in certain sink estates in London runs at 50%, and if the youth can find jobs it's usually close to minimum wage. We have ghettoised a section of the UK generation, and with 4.8ml on out of work benefits and only 400k churn jobs available this will get worse. Taking away ema and causing social unrest through social cleansing masquerading as housing benefit reforms was ideological vandalism, the feral elite have taken far more than the feral urbans.

The Molotov genie is out of the bottle, IMHO it won't be put back unless this govt creates work, mass work; building social housing, re building a railway/tramway system and any other stimulus that could prove to be a real legacy..

 

[Black Swan]

there was another one like that with a black guy being interviewed which was also funny, but I cant find the clip now for looking.
The interviewer asked: ''why are you doing this looting?''
and he replied: ''Coz we want nice things too, innit. Things we couldn't get our hands on otherwise. The rich people with money don't understand, isn't it....''
Made me chuckle at the time.

Actually the govt needs to really concentrate on these throwaway remarks. The illusion that we all have the; latest smartphone, ipad2, homes, cars, holidays is as far from the reality families experience on some of the poorest sink estates in the UK you could get. These kids feel locked out of everything that is continually sold to them by our consumerist driven methods.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Actually the govt needs to really concentrate on these throwaway remarks. The illusion that we all have the; latest smartphone, ipad2, homes, cars, holidays is as far from the reality families experience on some of the poorest sink estates in the UK you could get. These kids feel locked out of everything that is continually sold to them by our consumerist driven methods.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

yes and when brown was in it was blairs fault and when blair was in it was majors fault and when major was in it was thatchers fault and when thatcher was in it was callahans fault and continue ad infinitum

It's nobody's fault but voter joe's' fault. They keep voting in the wrong person. So they deserve to get robbed on every turn.

 

[jthetrader]

I'm surprised too. Being able to sit on my ar$e with a PC and make doshloads for a couple of hours work a day, doesn't seem to compare very fairly with someone working a 60 hour week for considerably less. I can see why the lefties get upset but their solutions don't work either.

I suppose your compensation is always overshadowed by the possibility of losing everything (or a lot). Someone who is working for someone else is not so personally invested in the outcome of their work, they just have to do the bare minimum, assuming they have no ambition to get a better job. And their cash flow is secure, from what I understand the difference between a good day and a bad day for a trader can be, in monetary terms, several orders of magnitude.

In theory one could make a living from gambling at a casino, provided they had a big enough bankroll. That is an even greater abstraction than forex trading, at least with trading you are dealing in something which allows you to provide currency to businesses. If you are making your money betting on the turn of a card you are in the eyes of the left.

I don't blame the lefties either, nor do I see anything wrong with someone speculating so long as they take the losses when they lose (when they come for a bailout I can see why people get angry).

In fact everyone, a lot of self-proclaimed leftwing working class folk, have been doing speculating on a scale which puts the average amateur trader to shame, namely the housing market. What else is it but speculating when you buy a house which is 10 times your earnings with a nominal sum down? You are no different to someone buying futures @ 10 fold leverage.

 

[jthetrader]

jTrader

If prices fall by 20% then 50%+ of all property bought since 2006 will be underwater...currently 25% of all house bought since 2006 are underwater. House prices will not recover their peak 2007 prices for a generation or two IMHO. The banks deliberately used dick head landlords' greed to park their excess liquidity..brilliant plan

Dick head landlords? Thanks for that mate. I'll let my dad know what a ******** he is.

So...the only question I have is. How can an unsophisticated, amateur investor profit from this fall? It isn't like we can short the instruments John Paulson shorted to make his 600% returns on the back of the last crisis.:smart:

What would happen, theoretically, if interest rates on variable rate mortgages went to 20%? How many people do you think would default?

Now then back on thread, and I havnt got much time to spend on this so excuse the poor grammar etc. denying the next generation the opportunity of having any skin in the game will prove to be one of the biggest social mistakes successive govts have made.


Unemployment in the black communities in certain sink estates in London runs at 50%, and if the youth can find jobs it's usually close to minimum wage. We have ghettoised a section of the UK generation, and with 4.8ml on out of work benefits and only 400k churn jobs available this will get worse. Taking away ema and causing social unrest through social cleansing masquerading as housing benefit reforms was ideological vandalism, the feral elite have taken far more than the feral urbans.

EMA? It was a joke, I am glad they got rid of it. I never saw a penny. EMA was one big joke, it got them into school so they could claim their EMA; meanwhile they pissed about with friends. Did they spend any of it on anything but alcohol, I doubt it.

No offence to them but people in sink estates are pretty inconsequential to any of this, they don't spend much and they don't cost that much (even though everyone gets irritated by them being on benefits). The money, and the ficticious house price gains, are concentrated in the 'upper working class' and the middle class.

The Molotov genie is out of the bottle, IMHO it won't be put back unless this govt creates work, mass work; building social housing, re building a railway/tramway system and any other stimulus that could prove to be a real legacy..

Social housing? How much will that cost? Railways? A lot I'm guessing.

 

[Black Swan]

It's nobody's fault but voter joe's' fault. They keep voting in the wrong person. So they deserve to get robbed on every turn.

Wow..just wow..

Firstly we don't get what we vote for, no one voted for the co allusion even less for their mendacious ideological vandalism.

Secondly if you think your vote counts or matters then you're deluded, it was the Sun wot won it, every election in living memory. That's why govts need Murdoch..(who he?)

Look at Obama up there, as Palin said; "how's the hopey changey thing workin out for ya?" The teleprompter president..lol..what a farce, hypnotised the black electorate through NLP techniques, meanwhile making himself electable by the MSM and big business, presumably you know who bankrolled his election campaign?

 

[Marwan2010]

I feel really upset at what has been happening.
However its a result of poor policies pursued over the past 20 years or so.
We've encouraged the poor to breed by paying benefits for people to have large families.
Diane Abbott seems to have spent her life undermining the police and now she's blaming them!
Its priceless.

 

[Atilla]

So you are happy to play your part in the increasing demand for property thus helping to push property prices out of the reach of the working man?

I am happy to work within society and abide by all its rules. Yes. Is this you talking sense or just being vindictive. House prices are determined by demand and supply like everything else. You really are stupid making this ridiculous statement and trying to personalise it too...

This is the same working man that will be renting the house off you. Too poor to pay a mortgage because of the greed or people like yourself so forced to pi$$ money away on rent to people richer than himself, with no gains for his hard work.

I've rented a number of properties in my time. I should also add we've rented two properties whilst having two house all at the same time too. Don't want to explain it - but it was the Mrs trying to get kids into school of her choice. However, as part of our moving down to Worthing we rented a place for over a year down here. If you only knew how much Council tax I've paid along with daft utility bills.

Comrade Atilla - you should be ashamed of yourself.

Is it the rich you hate? Or just those richer than yourself? Rhetorical question. No need to answer.

This is really pathetic. I don't give a hoot about what other people earn or not. However, this represents your mind set as people think other people as thinking like they do. You are a poor sod.

DT I find you very simple minded and very naive. You arguements are very narrow minded and you really do not listen well or understand the written word.

Typicall you feel you are rich and successful therefore you are right and anything that doesn't represent your experience is an incorrect view or perspective of the world.


Also - you are about as pathetic as those juvenile delinquents when you say something like increased demand is made worse by people like me. Really now???

You now turning on your own ideals or just trying to be the hypocrit that you say I am?

I have lost count how many times I have mentioned that I am not a socialist or a commie. Nor am I a pure capitalist or a fascist.

But your puny simple little mind can't fathom out the different shades of gray because you are all about your self, ego and centric experience and the sound bites you may have read about left and right.


CV you are in the same boat. You bring down a global event to one of immigration and social benefits and few mindless thugs - which are clearly a small domestic issue in the realm of a much bigger picture.


So I'm really quite suprised by you and CV simply hounding in very simple terms this old dogma BS about left and right.

I'm surprised and amused as to what two simpletons you guys really are?

You make me laugh...

 

[DionysusToast]

You are right Atilla. I will stop now and bow down to your obvious higher intellect.

I stand corrected in that increases in demand are not exacerbated by people buying more of something. That was silly of me.

I will now stop being a (sic) hypocrit.

Anyway - where do I send the redistribution cheques. "Che's are us?"

 

[Marwan2010]

London riots: David Cameron approves water cannon

Hurrah.............
get rid of this bast***rds

> get community service for all teenagers
> NO FREE handouts

WRITE TO THE PM today

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Firstly we don't get what we vote for, no one voted for the co allusion even less for their mendacious ideological vandalism.

It's nobody's fault if voter joe's' get scammed and then accept it as their fate. They are clearly begging for more of the same. I say let them have it.