This has got me tearing my hair out....

zzaxx99

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This one has got me really scratching my head!

I've bought a new MSI KT6 Delta motherboard, Athlon 2800+ & 512Mb PC3200/DDR400 DIMM, and am trying to get them to work. Every time I boot up, it gets a small way into the boot process and then powers itself down - and won't power up again until I pull the power cord out of the back of the power supply. This motherboard comes with a useful diagnostic backplate that shows that it's failing after the initial memory test and at/before "decompresing BIOS image to RAM for fast booting".

I've had replacement DIMMS, a replacement processor (which did at least get me 1 stage further in the POST), and now a new motherboard.

I have now tried Motherbaord A with processors X and Y and DIMMS M and N, case 1 and 2; motherboard B with processor Y, DIMM N and case 1. In each combination it stops at exactly the same place. Either I have another duff processor (in a differently duff way to the original), or another duff DIMM (M and N come from 2 different suppliers, so they could both be duff in the same way, but would be a bit of a coincidence).

I've tried clearing CMOS on m/b A, not yet on B. I have nothing connected to the m/b other than the 2 power connections, the on/off switch and the processor fan. (I originally started out on m/b A with everything connected - 2 hard disks, floppy, 2 DVD drives, graphics adaptor, all the other case connectors, audio leads etc - and gradually disconnected everything to see what would make the error go away - and nothing did!)

Don't think it's PSU, unless the PSU in both cases is faulty (possible, but an amazing coincidence). The one in Case 1 is a new 400W job that came with the case; the one in Case 2 is about a year old, bought to replace the one in Case 2 that had blown up when the motherboard (since removed) in that machine fried.

Video is off-board.

This has had me tearing my hair out - I've never had a problem like this that hasn't been caused by a bad cable connection (or cable upside down) or somesuch - but there aren't any cables connected.

Process of deduction says that:
  • the problem is unlikely to be the motherboard - as two separate motherboards give the same problem (barring remarkable coincidence)
  • unlikely to be the PSU - two separate PSUs, ditto
  • more likely but still unlikely is the DIMM - 2 separate DIMMs tried which exhibit the same problem, each sourced from a difference supplier
  • The only common item left is the processor - which is a replacement, but from the same vendor as the first faulty one
I've now bought yet another processor, which I'm about to try. If that works, that gets me one machine working, and I can then get a cheap processor to get machine 2 going (this was only intended to get a single machine working, but I've ended up with enough bits to make 2 PCs out of this fiasco, which has so far dragged on for over 2 months).

So... I've about to try processor #3- but if that doesn't work...... any bright ideas what else might be the problem?

(Going off topic, but one other point, in passing - do not, under any circumstances be tempted to deal with Refresh Computers. They are cheap, but are the most unresponsive and downright useless PC vendor I have ever dealt with (and I've previously had the misfortune to buy from both Jungle.com and Watford Electronics!). I've had to resort to threats at literally every stage to get any response at all out of them - including getting them to supply the original order. Never again! Aria and Dabs (as usual) have, in contrast been a pleasure to deal with)
 
Best thing is to buy system (not DIY) from someone you can throw the junk back at and say, please replace it would ya..???

Life is too short for tearing hairs out..!!!
 
I've been re/building PCs since the grey-import days of 1983/4 - I've never had a problem as intractable as this one.

Building it myself lets me incrementally upgrade, which means (a) I can choose the best/most appropriate components available, and (b) I can spread the cost out rather than having a big hit every time I want to upgrade.

And having seen the problems that our corporate XP rollout has had, with new machines there, I'm not convinced the new machine route is any more reliable!
 
Have a chat with Chartman. He knows a fair bit about comps.












zzaxx99 said:
I've been re/building PCs since the grey-import days of 1983/4 - I've never had a problem as intractable as this one.

Building it myself lets me incrementally upgrade, which means (a) I can choose the best/most appropriate components available, and (b) I can spread the cost out rather than having a big hit every time I want to upgrade.

And having seen the problems that our corporate XP rollout has had, with new machines there, I'm not convinced the new machine route is any more reliable!
 
Hi zzaxx99
Deff a quandry

Just a thought have you installed another heatsink or the same one for both processors it may be that the cpu is overheating and causing the mobo to go on standby
 
I have also had strange problems with cooling, though normally, I can get the system to boot before it overheats and seizes.

zzaxx99, have you tried MSI's tech support?

At time of posting this, the tech support page was down :LOL: but they said that they were working on it.
 
Most strange..... usually a fault will beep the speaker.... do you have one connected?
Just a thought . I know how easy is is to tell yourself you didn't make a mistake anywhere..... Check that you have a fan connected where it should be and that is has speed sensors fitted. A lot of case fans don't have a speed sensor. If you have one of these connected and the BIOS expects to see a speed input and there is none there, the BIOS may well put the PC into shutdown.This is a fail-safe mechanism. The only way back is to remove power. If your case fan needs a speed sensor and you don't have one, temporarily plug in a CPU fan- they all have them. Then if it boots, you can probably turn off sensing in the BIOS. Of course, it may be that you have simply plugged in the CPU fan to a case fan connector..... then the BIOS is definitely going to shut down super fast- It thinks the CPU fan has failed. :cheesy:
Don't say no way, just read the manual and re-check.
 
ChartMan said:
Most strange..... usually a fault will beep the speaker.... do you have one connected?
Just a thought . I know how easy is is to tell yourself you didn't make a mistake anywhere..... Check that you have a fan connected where it should be and that is has speed sensors fitted. A lot of case fans don't have a speed sensor. If you have one of these connected and the BIOS expects to see a speed input and there is none there, the BIOS may well put the PC into shutdown.This is a fail-safe mechanism. The only way back is to remove power. If your case fan needs a speed sensor and you don't have one, temporarily plug in a CPU fan- they all have them. Then if it boots, you can probably turn off sensing in the BIOS. Of course, it may be that you have simply plugged in the CPU fan to a case fan connector..... then the BIOS is definitely going to shut down super fast- It thinks the CPU fan has failed. :cheesy:
Don't say no way, just read the manual and re-check.

Just a thought , but have you tried an alternative video card? Had a similar problem some years back which turned out to be just that! :)
 
ChartMan said:
Most strange..... usually a fault will beep the speaker.... do you have one connected?
Just a thought . I know how easy is is to tell yourself you didn't make a mistake anywhere..... Check that you have a fan connected where it should be and that is has speed sensors fitted. A lot of case fans don't have a speed sensor. If you have one of these connected and the BIOS expects to see a speed input and there is none there, the BIOS may well put the PC into shutdown.This is a fail-safe mechanism. The only way back is to remove power. If your case fan needs a speed sensor and you don't have one, temporarily plug in a CPU fan- they all have them. Then if it boots, you can probably turn off sensing in the BIOS. Of course, it may be that you have simply plugged in the CPU fan to a case fan connector..... then the BIOS is definitely going to shut down super fast- It thinks the CPU fan has failed. :cheesy:
Don't say no way, just read the manual and re-check.

Haven't got the speaker connected, though when I did have, I didn't get any beeps. The diagnostic backplate is pretty good/useful at telling me exactly where it is failing (same place every time).

I do have the fan connected to the CPU fan connector on the motherboard, though fan connected or not doesn't seem to make any difference.

Interesting idea about the speed sensor - neither the motherboard nor the fan itself say anythng about speed sensing (the fan is a fairly serious piece of ironmongery - a Thermaltake SilentBoost) - I'll have to have a ferret around on the respective web-sites to see if there's anything there.

The fan does spin up and stays on for the 1-2 seconds until the machine powers itself down.
 
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Hughmac said:
Just a thought , but have you tried an alternative video card? Had a similar problem some years back which turned out to be just that! :)

Yes, I've been caught by the duff/incompatible video card trap in the past as well. I thought that might be the case here, so removed the card completely - no difference. All the later tests have been run without a video card installed at all.

Now, normally, if you try to boot without a video card, the machine will whinge (via the speaker) and won't boot (unless it's configured for "headless" operation), but in that case, it will generally at least stay powered up.

I'm not even getting far enough into the POST for the machine to complain about the absence of a video card
 
Boot-up Blues: Computer shuts down after a few seconds

Sorry to hear about your problems, zzaxx99.

Here’s something I found on another forum, and I quote:

“I think I have found your problem. I stumbled on this forum looking for answers to the exact same problem as you have. The PS would shut down after a few secs. I have a few machines and started swapping parts but couldn't get the damn thing working.......until I removed the connector from the front panel on/off switch and used a temporary switch. Guess what? The computer booted right up. I then disabled the on/off switch and used the reset switch connected to the motherboard in the on/off switch position and it booted up perfectly. I hope this is your problem because it is very easy and cheap to fix. “

Here’s the link to the thread:

http://forums.devshed.com/archive/t-175383

HTH, I can think of better ways to spend Sunday afternoon! :)

Cheers

Mayfly
 
zzaxx99 said:
Yes, I've been caught by the duff/incompatible video card trap in the past as well. I thought that might be the case here, so removed the card completely - no difference. All the later tests have been run without a video card installed at all.

Now, normally, if you try to boot without a video card, the machine will whinge (via the speaker) and won't boot (unless it's configured for "headless" operation), but in that case, it will generally at least stay powered up.

I'm not even getting far enough into the POST for the machine to complain about the absence of a video card

The only other thing that i can think of is an incompatability between cpu speed and motherboard settings although i know that mostly nowadays these are detected and set automaticaly.
 
Well I've ripped all my hair out, and now I'm starting to tear off lumps of my scalp.

Just tried processor #3, with exactly the same result.
Tried removing the memory - exactly the same result.

Tried removing powerswitch connection and using reset switch instead - same result.

Pretty much run out of ideas, except... I've just noticed that this board has connectors for Northbridge and "System" fans as well as the CPU fan. The motherboard docs don't say that either of them are compulsory, but does anyone have any experience with systems requiring a Northbridge fan as well before it would work? (I've tried with the fan connected to just CPU and just Northbridge, but I've only got one of this type of fan)

Or any other ideas?
 
Mayfly said:
zzaxx99,

I came across this post on a tech forum a while ago - it may help to solve your problem. I think it's worth knowing about these issues in any event?

Here's the link: http://www.tech-forums.net/computer/topic/3612.html

HTH

Cheers

Mayfly

Thanks for the link Mayfly. At the moment, getting the machine to boot far enough to have ACPI problems is a distant dream, but it gives me something to look forward to ;)
 
ardhill said:
I have also had strange problems with cooling, though normally, I can get the system to boot before it overheats and seizes.

zzaxx99, have you tried MSI's tech support?

At time of posting this, the tech support page was down :LOL: but they said that they were working on it.

Missed this on first reading of the thread - thanks for the link, I'll give them a go. I've had a look at their website for details of the motherboard, and there wasn't anything relevant there, but I didn't see the tech support bit
 
oatman said:
You might get some answers here http://pcpitstop.ibforums.com/index.php?act=idx
there's a section for PC builders, overclockers etc.
Good luck

Thanks for that link - I've posted my nightmare on there, and there's been a few useful suggestions. My most recent brainwave was inspired by that - "hey, maybe it's a grounding problem". Which led to....

Another day, another dismal failure :(

Disconnected the motherboard and the back-plane cut out. Removed the cutout entirely. Couldn't run the motherboard out of the box, because the power leads aren't long enough, but sat it on two non-conductive bags, and made sure that it didn't touch any part of the case.

Switched on - same thing - powers itself off after 1-2 seconds.

The only common factor left now is the RAM. It'd be a hell of a coincidence, but maybe all three DIMMS have been faulty - can't for the life of me see what else it could be.

If anyone has any other bright ideas, I'd be pleased to hear them, because I am stumped!
 
we run a lot of machines and we have had ram be at the route of these problems in the past - but we have also had issues with historicaly ok psu's which could not cope with upgraded hardware, so whilst you may have two apparently ok psu's - it could be that both are below the power your new system is tryng to pull
 
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