The Next US President

[hhiusa]

You think of demagogues and mob rule and intolerance throughout the centuries and all the suffering and injustice caused by it and you fondly believe we in the West (and in other places, too !) have outgrown such ignorance and bigotry and become civilised.
And then you look at the explosion of self righteous hounding and hatred and intolerance and bullying by public figures in the media and millions on line and you realise the screaming murderous mobs and their Hitlerite leaders are still with us. And, as always, they purport to be the upholders of justice for the masses.
You can understand how the monsters of history are still with us......

How is that specifically pertinent here. I think of the population of a country as a giant group project like in school. Some people always end up carrying the weight of others who do not want to work as hard. It is always frustrating because you have to share in the grades.

Those that who are uneducated are far greater in number that the educated. It is a problem of exponentiation. They tend to have more kids; thus, the uneducated population growth accelerates. Why would you want feckless people making decisions for you. These are the arguments for a meritocracy. Rule by majority is usually rule by the least qualified.

Things function much more efficiently when they are privatized. Public services are always less efficient because they all believe that "it is no big deal because the government is footing the bill."

 

[Pat494]

Things function much more efficiently when they are privatized. Public services are always less efficient because they all believe that "it is no big deal because the government is footing the bill."

I think of Chump as the good example of US greed, selfishness and privatisation. A system where 90% of the wealth is owned by the wealthiest 5% ( or near enough ).

They could show a bit of generosity to others and spread the wealth around while still keeping plenty for themselves. The rush for money however it is achieved generally means the quickest route of crime. Chop down the rain forests until they are just a grassy plain where nothing can grow and no animals can exist, dump the garbage into the ocean until they go bad etc. which is so short sighted. You can't eat bank statements on the computer. You can't exist without the help of others. About time the US people grew a bit of courage and told the political nasties that they want a fair share. Not equal necessarily but fair. It took us a civil war to dump our Scottish King but we did it.

Next thing Chump will be proclaiming some divine right or other I expect. Cowboy and the US gullible will be cheering him on !!

 

[hhiusa]

I think of Chump as the good example of US greed, selfishness and privatisation. A system where 90% of the wealth is owned by the wealthiest 5% ( or near enough ).

They could show a bit of generosity to others and spread the wealth around while still keeping plenty for themselves. The rush for money however it is achieved generally means the quickest route of crime. Chop down the rain forests until they are just a grassy plain where nothing can grow and no animals can exist, dump the garbage into the ocean until they go bad etc. which is so short sighted. You can't eat bank statements on the computer. You can't exist without the help of others. About time the US people grew a bit of courage and told the political nasties that they want a fair share. Not equal necessarily but fair. It took us a civil war to dump our Scottish King but we did it.

Next thing Chump will be proclaiming some divine right or other I expect. Cowboy and the US gullible will be cheering him on !!

You said that you are glad that you are not poor, but people who have actually worked hard to get where they are, do not complain about people who have more money than them. That is what I would expect from somebody who only sucks the government's tit.

Try venturing into the real world where the government does not coddle you.

 

[NVP]

Trump has truly stunned me with his recent outbursts.......he and his followers must now,realise he has blown any chance of the candidacy let alone the presidency

What in gods name possessed him to do it when actually he was doing ok ?

Suicide pill ?
N

 

[Pat494]

Trump has truly stunned me with his recent outbursts.......he and his followers must now,realise he has blown any chance of the candidacy let alone the presidency

What in gods name possessed him to do it when actually he was doing ok ?

Suicide pill ?
N

Some crack up and just can't take the pressure. He is more of a potential dictator than democrat imho.

 

[Pat494]

Try venturing into the real world where the government does not coddle you.

Love to know what hhiusa did after school ? Did he work at anything ? College dropout perhaps ? Gives the impression of being a multi millionaire and sweated blood in his toil. Not very likely and that is why he is so arrogant. So ready with the put downs. Is that him below ? No no much too handsome Mabel.

Wonder if he knows Bob in Newport Beach ? He is an authority on art.

 

[hhiusa]

Trump has truly stunned me with his recent outbursts.......he and his followers must now,realise he has blown any chance of the candidacy let alone the presidency

What in gods name possessed him to do it when actually he was doing ok ?

Trump is still the front runner and in fact other countries have adopted his policies and viewpoints. Marine Le Pen of the Front National (FN) party is now leading the polls in France with 28-30% of the vote nationally and 40% support in the northern region Nord-Pas-de-Calais. The Odoxa poll showed her at 37%. She is gaining so much support that other parties have withdrawn their candidacy in the hopes that people will caucus with Sarkozy, bolstering his support.

Poll sees rising support for France's Le Pen in northern local election

The National Front is now the first party of France

Le Site Officiel Du Front National

In the Netherlands, the Dutch Party of Freedom is gaing major support. Geert Wilders of the PVV

http://theweek.com/articles/576490/rise-europes-far-right

In Sweden
the new arrivals' failure to assimilate has sent voters stampeding to the right. The Sweden Democrats, a once-reviled party with roots in neo-Nazism, took 13 percent of the vote in last year's election to become the third-biggest party in Parliament, mostly on a campaign to halt immigration.

In Germany
For four months, the Patriotic Europeans Against Islamization of the West, or Pegida, organized weekly mass demonstrations calling for strict controls on Muslim immigration. Now the Alternative for Germany, a small anti-EU party, has begun reaching out to Pegida supporters, promising to fight immigration and promote "more children for German families."

Love to know what hhiusa did after school ? Did he work at anything ? College dropout perhaps ? Gives the impression of being a multi millionaire and sweated blood in his toil. Not very likely and that is why he is so arrogant. So ready with the put downs. Is that him below ? No no much too handsome Mabel.

The irony will always be that it is you doing the majority of the put downs with your deflections. You call Donal Trump "Chump" like a child. You say that you are a grown up so act like it. It could just be an American or Californian thing, but nobody I know refers to politicians and CEOs by childish monikers like "banksters" and "Chump". Your arguments should be able to show that you do not like them and not through ad hominem fallacies.

Again, I reiterate "you said that you are glad that you are not poor, but people who have actually worked hard to get where they are, do not complain about people who have more money than them. That is what I would expect from somebody who only sucks the government's tit."

Why do you care how much CEOs make? What business is it of yours how much money anyone makes, except for those in public office. If you want to take issue with people's salaries, try looking at government pensions first.

 

[trendie]

There was a BBC article that suggested that Donald Trump was a Democrat secret-agent!
That is, to take the Republican banner, and by his actions, undermine its credibility, thus ensuring a Democrat win.

 

[hhiusa]

There was a BBC article that suggested that Donald Trump was a Democrat secret-agent!
That is, to take the Republican banner, and by his actions, undermine its credibility, thus ensuring a Democrat win.

It does not matter to me which side he is on. He has, thus far, been unable to undermine the Republicans. It is funny that you should mention that because from all the articles I have read Trump has managed to undermine all the far left wing parties in Europe. France has gone "vive le FN" by Marine Le Pen - The French Trump. Even countries like Sweden and Germany which have always been far left, are now going right.

But that is typical for a far left leaning newsagency (BBC) to say something that.

 

[trendie]

It does not matter to me which side he is on. He has, thus far, been unable to undermine the Republicans. It is funny that you should mention that because from all the articles I have read Trump has managed to undermine all the far left wing parties in Europe. France has gone "vive le FN" by Marine Le Pen - The French Trump. Even countries like Sweden and Germany which have always been far left, are now going right.

But that is typical for a far left leaning newsagency (BBC) to say something that.

I do try to get my news from multiple sites, but confess to finding their articles well written and generally balanced.

Anyway, I read that the French far-right, Le-Pen, et al, have failed to take a single seat in the recent elections.

It could be that the BBC source is left leaning. Do you have any right leaning news sources showing Marine Le Pen winning anything?
Thanks, muchly.

 

[hhiusa]

I do try to get my news from multiple sites, but confess to finding their articles well written and generally balanced.

Anyway, I read that the French far-right, Le-Pen, et al, have failed to take a single seat in the recent elections.

It could be that the BBC source is left leaning. Do you have any right leaning news sources showing Marine Le Pen winning anything?
Thanks, muchly.

If you had bothered to read anything from my last post and click on the links you would know that I had already provided you sources. Reuters is a left-leaning newsagency along with The Daily Mail, which shows her with a huge majority of support. She has gained so much support that other parties have withdrawn their candidacy in order to shore up support with Sarkozy.

 

[trendie]

If you had bothered to read anything from my last post and click on the links you would know that I had already provided you sources. Reuters is a left-leaning newsagency along with The Daily Mail, which shows her with a huge majority of support. She has gained so much support that other parties have withdrawn their candidacy in order to shore up support with Sarkozy.

I greatly appreciate your posting the reuters article.
I have had a bit of a read.

It was dated Sep 20th:
"France's far-right National Front party leader Marine Le Pen is expected to dominate in the first round of local elections in the northern region of Nord-Pas-de-Calais in December, mustering 40 percent support, according to a poll on Sunday."

A more recent article, from reuters, dated Dec 14:
"Marine Le Pen's far-right National Front did not win any region in French elections on Sunday, in a setback to her hopes of being a serious presidential contender in 2017."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-politics-idUSKBN0TW00320151214

The first article was a speculative article about possible outcomes.
The second article was a statement of the reality of the situation.

The "support" didn't materialise into actual political power.
We have experienced this in the UK, as well, with Nigel Farage, of the UKIP.

Trying to keep this thread on track, that means even though people may feel some visceral, reactionary support for Trumps outpourings in the short-term, in the cold, light of day, when they have to weigh up more than just rhetoric and sound-bites, people may eventually elect a more rounded, knowledgeable, and states(wo)man-like president.
Just guessing, mind.

 

[hhiusa]

I do try to get my news from multiple sites, but confess to finding their articles well written and generally balanced.

Anyway, I read that the French far-right, Le-Pen, et al, have failed to take a single seat in the recent elections.

It could be that the BBC source is left leaning. Do you have any right leaning news sources showing Marine Le Pen winning anything?
Thanks, muchly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3348056/French-far-right-National-make-massive-gains-regional-elections-leader-Marine-Le-Pen-springboard-2017-presidential-bid.html

Did you read any of the other articles? There is one there dated December 6th. It shows that Marine Le Pen has won 6 of the 13 regional elections in the first round with 29.4% of the vote in which 44 million people were eligible to vote.

Marine Le Pen 29.4% FN
Sarkozy 27.0% Les Républicains

http://time.com/4147837/marine-le-pen-france-regional-elections/
They did not manage to win in the second round of elections. However, The Socialist Party pulled their candidates from two elections to avoid splitting the vote because Le Front National support was so strong.

Time
"The decision of the center-left and center-right to effectively join together to prevent the FN’s rise will feed Le Pen’s narrative that there is no real difference between the mainstream French parties."

It is quite clear that the FN is a force to be reckoned with and that the other parties are worried or they would not have aligned in the hopes that they would get people to caucus together.

The election is still 16 months away. Even though she lost in the elections in the second round, the two parties had to band together in order to stop her. Her support has continued to grow and is likely to continue to grow even now. Several articles that I have read stated that now that the center-right and left have joined together it will benefit Le Pen's campaign.

 

[Pat494]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3348056/French-far-right-National-make-massive-gains-regional-elections-leader-Marine-Le-Pen-springboard-2017-presidential-bid.html

Did you read any of the other articles? There is one there date December 6th. It shows that Marine Le Pen has won 6 of the 13 regional elections in the first round with 29.4% of the vote in which 44 million people were eligible to vote.

Marine Le Pen 29.4% FN
Sarkozy 27.0% Les Républicains

http://time.com/4147837/marine-le-pen-france-regional-elections/
They did not manage to win in the second round of elections. However, The Socialist Party pulled their candidates from two elections to avoid splitting the vote because Le Front National support was so strong.

Time
"The decision of the center-left and center-right to effectively join together to prevent the FN’s rise will feed Le Pen’s narrative that there is no real difference between the mainstream French parties."

It is quite clear that the FN is a force to be reckoned with and that the other parties are worried or they would not aligned in the hopes that they would get people to caucus together.

The election is still 16 months away. Even though she lost in the elections in the second round, the two parties had to band together in order to stop her. Her support has continued to grow and is likely to continue to grow even now. Several articles that I have read stated that now that the center-right and left have joined together it will benefit Le Pen's campaign.

Just sad old Nazis with their doctrine of hate. The sensible ones gave up in 1945. Mostly they weren't even punished by the decent Allies. Not stuck in their own gas ovens even, which they richly deserved.

 

[hhiusa]

Just sad old Nazis with their doctrine of hate. The sensible ones gave up in 1945. Mostly they weren't even punished by the decent Allies. Not stuck in their own gas ovens even, which they richly deserved.

This is the a Presidential debate forum. Go soapbox in a philosophy forum. Leave the intelligent conversation to me and @trendie insofar as I can see.

 

[Pat494]

This is the a Presidential debate forum. Go soapbox in a philosophy forum. Leave the intelligent to me and @rendie; insofar as I can see.

To hope to understand the world's politics one can't ignore the extreme minorities , I think, much as one might like to. Their violent philosophies affect everyone else if they have enough support, even there in the USA, France etc.
Me, I am for moderation. Extremists murder people. Sometimes millions of people.
Is Chump an extremist ? Close to it I think. His supporters might go that extra distance.

 

[hhiusa]

To hope to understand the world's politics one can't ignore the extreme minorities , I think, much as one might like to. Their violent philosophies affect everyone else if they have enough support, even there in the USA, France etc.
Me, I am for moderation. Extremists murder people. Sometimes millions of people.
Is Chump an extremist ? Close to it I think. His supporters might go that extra distance.

That is definitely the pot calling the kettle black. Many of your statements have been extremes.

 

[Pat494]

That is definitely the pot calling the kettle black. Many of your statements have been extremes.

Such as ?

 

[hhiusa]

Such as ?

There is no need to list them all.

Just sad old Nazis with their doctrine of hate. The sensible ones gave up in 1945. Mostly they weren't even punished by the decent Allies. Not stuck in their own gas ovens even, which they richly deserved.

 

[Pat494]

There is a difference between talking about extremists and extreme action by oneself. I vote for moderate politicians and don't trust populists or extremists.
If you want an amusing day out in London then visit Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park. Usually a ranting fanatic or two there on a Sunday.