The hard learned Stop Loss lesson

[N Rothschild]

So, n_t, if I were long ES at 700 on 10/3 and it didn't make it up to 900 in the first few seconds I should admit that I'm wrong and take my loss?

yes.:whistling

 

[new_trader]

Wonder how long did it take you 2 years or 3-4 years ago when you just started to trade Don't say you knew exactly where and when to place the entry

I don't ever recall making that claim. I say and I have said, repeatedly in the past, that I followed and as a consequence FULLY ENDORSE the advice that got me to where I am. You need to properly study the market and build a proper methodology. You cannot simply use automated back testing and expect to make real progress and develop a SKILL that will last a lifetime.

When you have a proper methodology, which will no doubt evolve with your experience, you then trade with as tight stop a stop as possible. This is to keep losses to a minimum because you WILL make many mistakes and you must keep them as cheap as possible as you are learning. If you have the courage and the tenacity to persevere you WILL begin to pick winning entries more often. You will have NEW realizations but they must be experiential, they cannot be taught or explained. One day you will just 'get' it and the market will cease to baffle you the way it once did. You have progressed! I make no claim to having a special gift or talent.

 

[new_trader]

So, n_t, if I were long ES at 700 on 10/3 and it didn't make it up to 900 in the first few seconds I should admit that I'm wrong and take my loss?

Do you use time based stops?

 

[new_trader]

You have the right to disagree, because there are unlimited ways to trade, there is not ONE that everyone has to follow, as I said earlier. Does that address your concern?

And btw, time is just a parameter, it's not ALL.

Unlimited ways to trade?

I will say that there are an infinite number of incorrect ways to trade and only a few correct ways. The few correct ways are built on the same foundation of understanding though. The infinite other are hit and miss systems built on ignorance.

 

[trader_dante]

I don't know why everyone gets so heated. If it goes onside immediately, great. If you didn't get the entry at the exact right time and it went up 4 hours later but your stop didn't have to be any bigger, again - so what? You didn't get in at the perfect time but perhaps you just spent 4 precious hours of your life doing something more worthwhile than starting at the screen like a sack of sh*t waiting for the optimal time to get involved. Utimately nothing is as black and white as a lot of people make it out to be. Most of us like to think OUR WAY is the best way, the easiest way, the less risky way, the most proficient way etc etc etc but all that matters is what is consistently profitable for YOU.

But I respect new_trader because he is telling people what works for him and what he honestly believes you need to work on to make it as a trader. And like anyones advice it should be interpreted, considered, digested and then practiced before one should start arguing about it.

 

[new_trader]

Anyway dudes, I've had enough. You kids enjoy yourselves

 

[cpngtw]

My advice is for a new trader to stop out when trade is not going his way in certain time period. If you are a professional trader you may not need it. But the newbie may find it helpful. This thread is to help a relatively new trader to get things right, not for someone to brag about his godness of trading

 

[cpngtw]

My advice is for a new trader to stop out when trade is not going his way in certain time period. If you are a professional trader you may not need it. But the newbie may find it helpful. This thread is to help a relatively new trader to get things right, not for someone to brag about his godness of trading

That bragging about being right 99.99% just screws the new trader more and more. He is new and he'd make a lot of mistakes, this just make him look down on himself. LIke the wise men said, if you can't help the fallen, then don't push them down further

 

[new_trader]

My advice is for a new trader to stop out when trade is not going his way in certain time period. If you are a professional trader you may not need it. But the newbie may find it helpful. This thread is to help a relatively new trader to get things right, not for someone to brag about his godness of trading

Why trade with a stop larger than you are prepared to accept? Such disposable pointless advice you give. I say only enter a trade when you are near certain the trade will go your way and keep your stop tight in case it doesn't. No bragging, just SENSIBLE advice.

 

[cpngtw]

Why trade with a stop larger than you are prepared to accept? Such disposable pointless advice you give. I say only enter a trade when you are near certain the trade will go your way and keep your stop tight in case it doesn't. No bragging, just SENSIBLE advice.

please re-read my posts here, where did you find my stop lost is big? read careful before you reply is a good skill to help your trading :smart:

 

[cpngtw]

wonder how patient you are waiting for the trade to come

 

[new_trader]

please re-read my posts here, where did you find my stop lost is big? read careful before you reply is a good skill to help your trading :smart:

Hilarious. Point out where the claim of being right 99.99% of the time was made.

 

[new_trader]

wonder how patient you are waiting for the trade to come

More patient than you, that is certain.

 

[HaloTrader]

Why trade with a stop larger than you are prepared to accept? Such disposable pointless advice you give. I say only enter a trade when you are near certain the trade will go your way and keep your stop tight in case it doesn't. No bragging, just SENSIBLE advice.

Okay thats interesting New_Trader what stop loss levels are we talking about? Is this spreadbetting or DMA, i believe DMA stop losses of 2-pips are fine, spreadbetting, i think it needs to be a bit larger...

My stop loss for forex is 25 pips, for indices its usually 10% of the ATR because i try enter on momentum so if i don't go into profit quick, i get out because i obviously didn't find momentum

Continue as you are

 

[cpngtw]

unfixable

 

[barjon]

Remember your question from little more than two years ago NT?


Question Am I a good Trader
I have back tested a system, I have forward tested the system and now I am trading the system with real money. I have been trading for almost 2 months and have not missed a trade. I am down 50 points on the E-mini S&P500. Despite everything that I have read and written here, I am starting to lose faith in my system, and myself. However, I am determined to stick with it until I have been trading for at least 6 months or longer, even if it means losing more money. I don’t want to give up but somehow I this is being irrational!?

Any thoughts?

Since then you have clearly found yourself and a trading method that works for you and well done for that, albeit that the experience is not very long. There are, however, more ways to trade than yours and many that are successful without employing the same tight stops that you champion. It would be good if you recognised that fact.

good trading

jon

 

[Bloodhound]

Getting back to the earlier comments about time-based stops and the speed at which a trade goes into profit I have been pondering this of late as, more and more, I am noticing that the entries that work for me go into profit almost immediately (certainly within the first 60 seconds) whereas in a lot of cases the losing trades stall and then take my stop out. From reading earlier posts in this thread is there any mileage in timing how long it takes from entry to first profit as an additional trade analyis parameter? Has anyone else tried doing this or am I going to be wasting my time?

P.S. The reason for the question is that, whlst I am more than happy with my winners, I am trying to find ways of reducing the size of my losses to improve expectancy.

 

[mrsoul]

These wide stop people just don't get it do they? Hilarious it is, really funny.

new_trader,

Stop size is a relative term.
If you have a profit objective of 5 points, then a 2 point stop is okay.
If you have a profit objective of only 30 pips, then a 2 point stop is ridiculous.

Saying "have a tight stop" in and of itself is meaningless since the stop should be relative to profit objective.

 

[Windowsill]

Getting back to the earlier comments about time-based stops and the speed at which a trade goes into profit I have been pondering this of late as, more and more, I am noticing that the entries that work for me go into profit almost immediately (certainly within the first 60 seconds) whereas in a lot of cases the losing trades stall and then take my stop out. From reading earlier posts in this thread is there any mileage in timing how long it takes from entry to first profit as an additional trade analyis parameter? Has anyone else tried doing this or am I going to be wasting my time?

P.S. The reason for the question is that, whlst I am more than happy with my winners, I am trying to find ways of reducing the size of my losses to improve expectancy.

Well I think the answer is clearly in the question. As I said earlier I'm sad if i'm not in profit within 10seconds. The entry can relate to a stop. If you can't enter with a minute stop. you have already missed the entry point IMO.

 

[Bloodhound]

Well I think the answer is clearly in the question. As I said earlier I'm sad if i'm not in profit within 10seconds. The entry can relate to a stop. If you can't enter with a minute stop. you have already missed the entry point IMO.

Yes - I can see what you're saying. I guess I was wondering whether this was a subject that had been looked at with a degree of mathematical analysis?