The end of the EU

[Triggerfish]

I am talking about the TOTAL COST TO SOCIETY...FFS! I’d rather see everybody benefit and profit from well run companies and economies than a few people profit from poorly run economies...FFS!!!

This is rather interesting.....Lets consider a coin(money).....there are two sides to this coin, one side are the businesses and the other side are the general public.....they both go together hand in hand.....total opposites, fighting against each other, never in peace.....yet, the businesses are smarter than the public.....as this happens, the public money will slide towards the businesses where the few will prosper.

As long as we are in this coin, we are under the conditions within and forever attached to it and depend on it.
A winner cannot exist without a loser.....success and failure are nothing but an illusion.....resulting happiness and sufferings.....the great wedge between them.

Yet those who sets rules do not have the wisdom to do what is right for their country as every country has their own hidden intentions.....again fighting against each other, just like the coin.....constantly trying to beat the others.....never at peace.....always repeating and cannot escape this reality.....deluded human beings following deluded human beings.....like a blind man cannot lead a blind man out of the forest!

 

[new_trader]

“I also made another point that investors are also prepared to put money into loss making highly geared companies if they have confidence in reaping rewards for taking risks in believing in the company outlook etc. No different reasonable response to betting on the US$”

This is the last post, and only to point out the incredulous stupidity of Atilla.

1) The $US dollar is losing value because of the current and inevitable future actions of the Government and the Central bank, not because people are “betting” on the demise of the USA. The ‘value’ of the US dollar is being measured against a basket of other, equally depreciating fiat currencies so its true value is being disguised by this. It’s like standing on the deck of a sinking ship and looking at another ship that is sinking faster and arguing that it is only the other ship that is sinking because you refuse to use the surface of the ocean as a reference.

2) Who in their right mind would continue lending the US Government money for 30 years at less than 4% interest if they start to see that true inflations is running well above this level?

3) The US Government has defaulted on its promise before when Nixon closed the gold window in 1971.

4) Governments either honestly default or dishonestly default through inflation, I’ll give you one guess which path the USA is going down.

Only dumbasses who do not understand what inflation is would argue the way Atilla is arguing and talk about the value of the dollar being like a share in a company. On top of this, he says Governments have a long time horizon. Why would anyone hold on to the currency if they don’t think they will see a return in their own lifetime? Atilla’s entire argument is absurd.

 

[new_trader]

This is rather interesting.....Lets consider a coin(money).....there are two sides to this coin, one side are the businesses and the other side are the general public.....they both go together hand in hand.....total opposites, fighting against each other, never in peace.....yet, the businesses are smarter than the public.....as this happens, the public money will slide towards the businesses where the few will prosper.

Businesses are there to serve the public. I'm not sure why you say they are fighting against each other. Your standard of living has been raised by entrepreneurs who try to make a product or provide a service that you are WILLING to pay for. Unlike a government, there is no coercion or threat of force or violence.

As long as we are in this coin, we are under the conditions within and forever attached to it and depend on it.
A winner cannot exist without a loser.....success and failure are nothing but an illusion.....resulting happiness and sufferings.....the great wedge between them.

Look around you at all the things you've bought that make your life better and tell me if they are only an illusion. Now, how many of them came from the Government?

Yet those who sets rules do not have the wisdom to do what is right for their country as every country has their own hidden intentions.....again fighting against each other, just like the coin.....constantly trying to beat the others.....never at peace.....always repeating and cannot escape this reality.....deluded human beings following deluded human beings.....like a blind man cannot lead a blind man out of the forest!

Why complicate things with Philosophical musings. Government only care about winning the next election. They are clueless demagogues who appeal to the equally clueless “Something for nothing” voters. If the majority of people are stupid, and a Politician appeals to their stupidity with stupid policies, then you end up with a country being run by stupid people. That is the problem with democracy.

 

[Triggerfish]

Businesses are there to serve the public. I'm not sure why you say they are fighting against each other. Your standard of living has been raised by entrepreneurs who try to make a product or provide a service that you are WILLING to pay for. Unlike a government, there is no coercion or threat of force or violence.

Yes but at a cost.....hence the battle between bussinesses/public.....where there is success, there is also failure.....it is an imperfect situation.....the word "WILLING" can be deceptive, manipulated, controlled for the masses.....with hidden intentions as current life situations clearly shows.....a path to more self interest creating more suffering.....yet the blind governments cannot SEE!

Look around you at all the things you've bought that make your life better and tell me if they are only an illusion. Now, how many of them came from the Government?

There is a saying "If one were to use his eyes, one is clearly blind!"
What we see around us in nothing but an illusion.....in fact, it is similar to a dream.....let me illustrate:
In the film Matrix, Morpheus said to Neo after the pill: "Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?".....Morpheus is saying that when one is in a dream and if one doesn't wake up, one cannot tell the difference between his current dream world and the real world.....life is only a dream, all but an illusion in the mind!.....self reinforcing.....by the deluded mind of the self!

Better life or worse are subjective and can vary between different people's views, yet it is nothing but an event, a flow or an effect. As nothing can happen without a cause, we all play a part in the process. Effects cannot happen without the right conditions. Even the governments are making decisions, it channels down to both businesses/public for it to materialise. They are all as one.....in this ever repeating cycle that goes round and round.....deluded!
There are no such things as success/failure.....all illusions.....impermanant.

Why complicate things with Philosophical musings. Government only care about winning the next election. They are clueless demagogues who appeal to the equally clueless “Something for nothing” voters. If the majority of people are stupid, and a Politician appeals to their stupidity with stupid policies, then you end up with a country being run by stupid people. That is the problem with democracy.

What you mentioned above are abosolutely correct hence the phase deluded human beings following deluded human beings.....both the government and public are deluded.
As being the case then.....how can a blind man(public) be lead out by a blind man(government) out of the forest?.....he can't!.....because the blind man cannot SEE!

 

[Mr. Crabs]

I don't want to keep on about the US because, actually, I'm very pro-American as previous posts on other threads would show. Nevertheless, behind the Greek bond fiasco is the arm of Goldman Sachs. So, here we have a greedy country, ie, Greece, being helped along by a major American institution and this is a perfect example of US capitalism worldwide.

The demand for the US$ has to be countered by another major currency because that demand is met by printed money and that means a debased currency. That's been proved over the years. Don't tell me that the pound will do that, please. If we do not want Asiatic financial dominance there is only one answer--a Eurozone currency. if it fails we will see the end of any Western financial muscle. Could the South Americans come up with a strong world traded currency? It's a possibility, one day, but there has to be an answer to the $US.

I don't think it's wise to doubt the US dollar. The controlled devaluation of the dollar contributes to its' strength. The FED is allowing for competition. Any year they can change course and send the dollar on its' way up but doing so would destroy other currencies in the process; most notably the Euro, and stifle the growth of our deficit in a time where the government seems to want to do anything it can to grow the deficit.

 

[Mr. Crabs]

You haven't answered any of my questions with sound economics. All you are doing is repeating parrot-fashion what your politicians have told you. I can get the same response from the average man in the street yet you are supposedly a savvy trader/investor who has a clue.

You're being silly. I don't answer silly questions. And as of parroting what politicians have told me - it's quite the contrary. GOP is currently basing its' platform on cutting back spending, and touting doom and gloom rhetoric about cutting spending starting with liberal social programs. They are making a much bigger deal out of it than it actually is in my opinion. Look at the debt GDP ratio. It's lower than it was in 1945.

 

[Mr. Crabs]

It prints it. No one wants to say that and it's been given a high fallutin' name, reduced to two letters----QE---- but that is what they do.

That is what is devaluing all currencies. There is no way that the US can pay for all the the bonds in foreign hands. The whole thing is one big confidence trick. Because of the power of the US everyone has more faith in US dollars than they have in their own so the US had better keep that confidence, which is showing a lot of weakness, lately.

The problem for the Chinese, who own the most bonds because of Western love for cheap Chinese junk, is that they know that to unload them will topple the
whole system. It is, in my view, a two-edged sword, because in a war they are capable of unloading the whole lot.

I am not an expert on any of this and it is just what is going through my mind, but I do not think that I am far wrong.

It's not a confidence game, it's a leverage game. If foreigners sell their US debt they know America will sell their foreign debt. The average country is more dependent on the US than the US is dependent on it. The rest of the international commerce system works in a similar fashion. The reason it stands strong is because we're better off working together than separately. The dollar isn't sustained by confidence, it is sustained through functionality.

 

[Mr. Crabs]

The differences is that a government is much bigger than any one company and have a longer time frame.

Anyone who believes they understand economics and cannot grasp this point and start issuing dumbass remarks - well what can I say but you decide???

It is a question of perspective, outlook and where ones confidence lies. Invest in rare assets like paintings, art, wine, land whatever you get my gist. Don't hold any dollars.

But pleaaaassseeeeee stop the bleeding hearts fiat currency blurb, for crying out loud - reminding us each time with poohey goohey attitude how remarkably smart you are.

Go somewhere and knock your self out and buy some more gold for goodness sake.

Isn't it about time you counted your coins again or something. :idea:

How old are you by the way?

Haha thank you Atilla. That sums what I was thinking pretty well.

 

[new_trader]

I don't think it's wise to doubt the US dollar. The controlled devaluation of the dollar contributes to its' strength. The FED is allowing for competition. Any year they can change course and send the dollar on its' way up but doing so would destroy other currencies in the process; most notably the Euro, and stifle the growth of our deficit in a time where the government seems to want to do anything it can to grow the deficit.

"Who is John Galt?"

 

[Pat494]

We, the general public, are let's face it stuck with a national debt for a generation or two to come just like the UK was after WW11.
Can't blame the Germans for this one but we can blame our own politicians. Sweden, Australia and the Swiss didn't plunge into huge debts so why did the USA, UK etc. ? - answer useless politicians. Surely there should be some questions to be asked of them and action taken, even if it is to make a lesson for future " honourable " members. Byng did and it paid off.

 

[new_trader]

How about you learn something yourself and explain to me how the Federal Reserve works? Don't you know we set the interest rates? We're the largest debtor, that gives us the most leverage. You're coming across as childish.

Personally I'm glad my perspective is in the company of Ben Bernanke and Obama. I'm alright with Obama.

Back when I was younger I had the same distrust and pessimism in our economy as you do but after I grew up I realized the core of America is strong despite the corruption that surrounds it. I expect other countries experience quiet the opposite.

Jim Rogers Joins Bill Gross Warning on Treasuries - Bloomberg

U.S. inflation may pick up in 2014 to 2016, Pimco’s Gross said this month on Bloomberg Radio. Faster inflation “will create an upper drift in long-term yields,” he said.

Oh Dear Mr Bernanke...you better ask Mr.Crabs for some advice!

 

[Mr. Crabs]

Jim Rogers Joins Bill Gross Warning on Treasuries - Bloomberg



Oh Dear Mr Bernanke...you better ask Mr.Crabs for some advice!

Ok looks like you know everything. Dollar is on top, not going anywhere.

 

[new_trader]

Ok looks like you know everything. Dollar is on top, not going anywhere.

Well Mr.Crabs, I DARE you to put your money where your mouth is. You are so confident in the $US dollar, why don't put $10,000 cash in a safe, or under your mattress, or anywhere you think nobody can steal it and keep it there for 10 years...I am 100% confident you won't do it. :cheesy:

 

[Atilla]

Well Mr.Crabs, I DARE you to put your money where your mouth is. You are so confident in the $US dollar, why don't put $10,000 cash in a safe, or under your mattress, or anywhere you think nobody can steal it and keep it there for 10 years...I am 100% confident you won't do it. :cheesy:

That's got to be the stupidist suggestion I've heard all decade

Especially coming from somebody called a 'New' trader.

 

[new_trader]

The dumbass morons confidently tell me that the $US dollar will remain strong because OTHER investors will want to own it, like shares in a Company, but they won’t own the $US dollar themselves. Doing that is the stupidist suggestion heard in decades, and I agree! WHO in their right mind would want to own the $US dollar???!

 

[Atilla]

The dumbass morons confidently tell me that the $US dollar will remain strong because OTHER investors will want to own it, like shares in a Company, but they won’t own the $US dollar themselves. Doing that is the stupidist suggestion heard in decades, and I agree! WHO in their right mind would want to own the $US dollar???!

Not at all - I may choose to hold it for an hour, a day or even a few weeks & months but 10 years????

What kind of trader are you Mr New BS-hitter...

 

[new_trader]

Do you see now what a KING MERCURIAL SCATTERBRAINED MORON he is? According to him, Governments are BIG and have Long time horizons, but holding the $USD for 10 years is insane!

Enough! He can drive anyone mad with his ludicrous, incoherent logic.

UNSUBSCRIBED

 

[Splitlink]

Do you want to know what the latest scandal is here? The corruption is bad enough but I think that we will sort that out.

What has, really, got people talking is the plight of old people in the hospitals in the UK. Old people so desperate for water that they are drinking out of the flower vases. Please, tell me that what I am reading is not true! Because that is what I am being asked.

 

[0007]

Do you want to know what the latest scandal is here? The corruption is bad enough but I think that we will sort that out.

What has, really, got people talking is the plight of old people in the hospitals in the UK. Old people so desperate for water that they are drinking out of the flower vases. Please, tell me that what I am reading is not true! Because that is what I am being asked.

It's true. The official "No Personal Blame neither will anybody will be fired" report is here BBC News - Stafford Hospital public inquiry: 'NHS needs urgent reform'

What did the socialists call it? - Envy of the world - what a (sad) joke. State management at its very worst. As a private business it would have been closed down.

 

[dealer911]

Do you want to know what the latest scandal is here? The corruption is bad enough but I think that we will sort that out.

What has, really, got people talking is the plight of old people in the hospitals in the UK. Old people so desperate for water that they are drinking out of the flower vases. Please, tell me that what I am reading is not true! Because that is what I am being asked.

It's a good solution for the looming pension crisis ! :innocent: