So why exactly are we at war?


Junior member
By Anonymous

PeaceNik: Why did you say we are we invading Iraq?

WarMonger: We are invading Iraq because it is in violation of security
council resolution 1441. A country cannot be allowed to violate security
council resolutions.

PN: But I thought many of our allies, including Israel, were in violation of
more security council resolutions than Iraq.

WM: It's not just about UN resolutions. The main point is that Iraq could
have weapons of mass destruction, and the first sign of a smoking gun could
well be a mushroom cloud over NY.

PN: Mushroom cloud? But I thought the weapons inspectors said Iraq had no
nuclear weapons.

WM: Yes, but biological and chemical weapons are the issue.

PN: But I thought Iraq did not have any long range missiles for attacking us
or our allies with such weapons.

WM: The risk is not Iraq directly attacking us, but rather terrorists
networks that Iraq could sell the weapons to.

PN: But coundn't virtually any country sell chemical or biological
materials? We sold quite a bit to Iraq in the eighties ourselves, didn't we?

WM: That's ancient history. Look, Saddam Hussein is an evil man that has an
undeniable track record of repressing his own people since the early
eighties. He gasses his enemies. Everyone agrees that he is a power-hungry
lunatic murderer.

PN: We sold chemical and biological materials to a power-hungry lunatic

WM: The issue is not what we sold, but rather what Saddam did. He is the one
that launched a pre-emptive first strike on Kuwait.

PN: A pre-emptive first strike does sound bad. But didn't our ambassador to
Iraq, April Gillespie, know about and green-light the invasion of Kuwait?

WM: Let's deal with the present, shall we? As of today, Iraq could sell its
biological and chemical weapons to Al Quaida. Osama BinLaden himself
released an audio tape calling on Iraqis to suicide-attack us, proving a
partnership between the two.

PN: Osama Bin Laden? Wasn't the point of invading Afghanistan to kill him?

WM: Actually, it's not 100% certain that it's really Osama Bin Laden on the
tapes. But the lesson from the tape is the same: there could easily be a
partnership between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein unless we act.

PN: Is this the same audio tape where Osama Bin Laden labels Saddam a
secular infidel?

WM: You're missing the point by just focusing on the tape. Powell presented
a strong case against Iraq.

PN: He did?

WM: Yes, he showed satellite pictures of an Al Quaeda poison factory in

PN: But didn't that turn out to be a harmless shack in the part of Iraq
controlled by the Kurdish opposition?

WM: And a British intelligence report...

PN: Didn't that turn out to be copied from an out-of-date graduate student

WM: And reports of mobile weapons labs...

PN: Weren't those just artistic renderings?

WM: And reports of Iraqis scuttling and hiding evidence from inspectors...

PN: Wasn't that evidence contradicted by the chief weapons inspector, Hans

WM: Yes, but there is plenty of other hard evidence that cannot be revealed
because it would compromise our security.

PN: So there is no publicly available evidence of weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq?

WM: The inspectors are not detectives, it's not their JOB to find evidence.
You're missing the point.

PN: So what is the point?

WM: The main point is that we are invading Iraq because resolution 1441
threatened "severe consequences." If we do not act, the security council
will become an irrelevant debating society.

PN: So the main point is to uphold the rulings of the security council?

WM: Absolutely. ...unless it rules against us.

PN: And what if it does rule against us?

WM: In that case, we must lead a coalition of the willing to invade Iraq.

PN: Coalition of the willing? Who's that?

WM: Britain, Turkey, Bulgaria, Spain, and Italy, for starters.

PN: I thought Turkey refused to help us unless we gave them tens of billions
of dollars.

WM: Nevertheless, they may now be willing.

PN: I thought public opinion in all those countries was against war.

WM: Current public opinion is irrelevant. The majority expresses its will by
electing leaders to make decisions.

PN: So it's the decisions of leaders elected by the majority that is

WM: Yes.

PN: But George Bush wasn't elected by voters. He was selected by the U.S.
Supreme C...-

WM: I mean, we must support the decisions of our leaders, however they were
elected, because they are acting in our best interest. This is about being a
patriot. That's the bottom line.

PN: So if we do not support the decisions of the president, we are not

WM: I never said that.

PN: So what are you saying? Why are we invading Iraq?

WM: As I said, because there is a chance that they have weapons of mass
destruction that threaten us and our allies.

PN: But the inspectors have not been able to find any such weapons.

WM: Iraq is obviously hiding them.

PN: You know this? How?

WM: Because we know they had the weapons ten years ago, and they are still
unaccounted for.

PN: The weapons we sold them, you mean?

WM: Precisely.

PN: But I thought those biological and chemical weapons would degrade to an
unusable state over ten years.

WM: But there is a chance that some have not degraded.

PN: So as long as there is even a small chance that such weapons exist, we
must invade?

WM: Exactly.

PN: But North Korea actually has large amounts of usable chemical,
biological, AND nuclear weapons, AND long range missiles that can reach the
west coast AND it has expelled nuclear weapons inspectors, AND threatened to
turn America into a sea of fire.

WM: That's a diplomatic issue.

PN: So why are we invading Iraq instead of using diplomacy?

WM: Aren't you listening? We are invading Iraq because we cannot allow the
inspections to drag on indefinitely. Iraq has been delaying, deceiving, and
denying for over ten years, and inspections cost us tens of millions.

PN: But I thought war would cost us tens of billions.

WM: Yes, but this is not about money. This is about security.

PN: But wouldn't a pre-emptive war against Iraq ignite radical Muslim
sentiments against us, and decrease our security?

WM: Possibly, but we must not allow the terrorists to change the way we
live. Once we do that, the terrorists have already won.

PN: So what is the purpose of the Department of Homeland Security,
color-coded terror alerts, and the Patriot Act? Don't these change the way
we live?

WM: I thought you had questions about Iraq.

PN: I do. Why are we invading Iraq?

WM: For the last time, we are invading Iraq because the world has called on
Saddam Hussein to disarm, and he has failed to do so. He must now face the

PN: So, likewise, if the world called on us to do something, such as find a
peaceful solution, we would have an obligation to listen?

WM: By "world", I meant the United Nations.

PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the United Nations?

WM: By "United Nations" I meant the Security Council.

PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the Security Council?

WM: I meant the majority of the Security Council.

PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the majority of the Security

WM: Well... there could be an unreasonable veto.

PN: In which case?

WM: In which case, we have an obligation to ignore the veto.

PN: And if the majority of the Security Council does not support us at all?

WM: Then we have an obligation to ignore the Security Council.

PN: That makes no sense.

WM: If you love Iraq so much, you should move there. Or maybe France, with
all the other cheese-eating surrender monkeys. It's time to boycott their
wine and cheese, no doubt about that.

PN: I give up!
The one thing which creates anger and trouble on bulletin boards is political comments. Open the door to them and all sorts of religious and racial bigotry follow.
This is the finest and best run forum for debate on the markets I have ever seen since I joined ESI (later E*Trade) when that first started many years ago.
Every single BB has been tainted by non-market prejudice and I fervently hope that the owners of this site do not allow political, religious, racial bias to take hold here.
This is simply not the place for those subjects to be discussed IMO.
Well said Mr Charts.

It was interesting though that it took 9 days for anyone to respond to the first post. That says a lot ...

T2W is special, and different to every other BB, because it is supported and policed by the majority, not an oddball minority. Everyone should be here because they want to live, breathe, and share the delights of all aspects of trading.
Hello Mr charts :),

I am sorry but guess what, i disagree with your point of view and here is why :

As far as i can see tray dars post was not his opinion but just an article that i am guessing he has got from an email - probably spam, lol. Because this is the "lounge" thread i do noy see what the harm is. Simple as that.

Religous and racial bigotry are absolutly disgusting and any one who directs that sort of foul mouthed opinion at a member should be banned imo. If people cannot argue without that kind of abuse then that is because one of two reasons :

1. There own argument lacks substance, so insults begin to fly.

2. Level headed debate is just beyond some people.

By the way Mr charts i have read some of your threads and comments you have made and would like to say : Keep up the good work :)

I look forward to challenging debate with you and other members of this great website, t2w, in a logical and intelligent fashion.

Have a good days tradeing :)
Hello Martin,
Thanks for your comments. I understand your views exactly and empathise, it's just that my experience of several boards is that the situation can deteriorate very quickly and I'd hate to see the ambience of this place spoilt.
I do enjoy satire ;-)
Good afternoon Mr charts,

Here here, the ambience of this place is superb. :)

Its a shame that less mature people spoil boards - but that does not mean that you cannot have well reasoned debate on subjects and strong disagrement. And as i said a personal insult to someone is an acceptance from that person that they lost there argument and got frustrated and begin to rant, they should be band imho. At the end of the day we are here to learn and educate each other about tradeing.

If you take the article above for what it is, i found it quite amusing and posted a quick reply to confirm that view. Nothing more and nothing less.

Any way hows your tradeing gone today?, im up 30+ points on the ftse today so im happy, hehe. It could have been alot more but i made some stupid errors.
Hi Martin,
30 pts is good - as long as you take money out steadily you can't expect to get tops and bottoms.
I've had a good pm thanks. A bit difficult to find a high probability trade early on, but went long EXPE at 49.96 and closed out at
51.02 for 106. I'm walking away for now to leave the chop time to the addicts. Finished for the week now as I'm away coaching tomorrow.
A Chinese feast and a bottle of Gerwurtztraminer tonight I think ;-)
Have a good w/e
The Lounge is the place to discuss non trading issues, but we still will maintain our high standards there, even though there is more "leeway". Common sense usually prevails.
Hi Mr charts / Chartman :),

Enjoy your Chinese, im going for an Indian my self;-)

Common sense chartman - i couldn't agree more. By the way your DOW analysis is fascinating - keep it up.