Sharia compliant trading platform

1) Do you think there are less murders in the world because of porentials murderers fearing the impact on their own afterlife ?
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No I don't. In my experience few people adhere to religious principals for fear of the afterlife consequences. Most I know who do adhere do so out of a desire for the greater good and would do so naturally with or without religion.

Everyone thinks that it is all about control when in most cases people are just wanting to do the right thing. The origins of most religions started with high principals and ideals but as with all things that have human involvement they get degraded. The power hungry use the banner of religion to further their own aims but even when this happens it has been ineffective as a means of controlling people.

The evolution of society and the progression of law has been much more effective at controlling people than has religion in my view. The subtleties of progressive society for the control of people has become so effective that it has made religion pathetic by comparison for control of the masses. I find it interesting that because this is not even generally known shows just how effective it is.

But this is just my view and I accept that everyone has a different one.


Paul
 
Trader333 said:
No I don't. In my experience few people adhere to religious principals for fear of the afterlife consequences. Most I know who do adhere do so out of a desire for the greater good and would do so naturally with or without religion.

Everyone thinks that it is all about control when in most cases people are just wanting to do the right thing. The origins of most religions started with high principals and ideals but as with all things that have human involvement they get degraded. The power hungry use the banner of religion to further their own aims but even when this happens it has been ineffective as a means of controlling people.

The evolution of society and the progression of law has been much more effective at controlling people than has religion in my view. The subtleties of progressive society for the control of people has become so effective that it has made religion pathetic by comparison for control of the masses. I find it interesting that because this is not even generally known shows just how effective it is.

But this is just my view and I accept that everyone has a different one.


Paul
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How do you know that any religion started with high principals and ideals?

That's a huge leap of faith in my opinion.

Most people are religious for the simple reason their parents fed them their family religion from birth. No other reason.

I would say that if we didn't have 'fear of God', there would have been a lot more murders. If it was proved beyond belief that there was no judgement or afterlife, I am very sure that incidents of rape, robbery and murder would increase. This is not from the religious but from your average Joe who likes to hedge his bets.
 
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Trader333 said:
No I don't. In my experience few people adhere to religious principals for fear of the afterlife consequences. Most I know who do adhere do so out of a desire for the greater good and would do so naturally with or without religion.

Everyone thinks that it is all about control when in most cases people are just wanting to do the right thing. The origins of most religions started with high principals and ideals but as with all things that have human involvement they get degraded. The power hungry use the banner of religion to further their own aims but even when this happens it has been ineffective as a means of controlling people.

The evolution of society and the progression of law has been much more effective at controlling people than has religion in my view. The subtleties of progressive society for the control of people has become so effective that it has made religion pathetic by comparison for control of the masses. I find it interesting that because this is not even generally known shows just how effective it is.

But this is just my view and I accept that everyone has a different one.


Paul
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Europe went through the struggle between Church and State in medieval Europe... Some countries still yet to go through this process. Also - depending on country state v church hold different degree of control. Whilst Iran may have a bias for religion in other secular countries - religion plays only a small part.

In the UK the magna carta was the first attempt around 1200s. Thomas Beckett was a point in case of church interference in running of state tormenting Henry II.

Even the Russians banning religion in 20th century failed. The orthodox church is still active and attempts to play its part. Mullahs have recently started using their religion for political ends. In the Knesset too religious parties have considerable seats and voting rights.

How much it is control and how much it is human instinct driven can be debated but the battle for control has raged on hand in hand and still does imo.

Religion still plays its part in passing laws and maintaining its control.
 
Curious to know where Europe would be today in the absence of the Church.

Something tells me that the evolution following the collapse of the Roman Empire would have followed a very different trajectory. You have to remember you were dealing with rather basic tribes at the time such as the Picts, Vandals etc.

In fact, one could argue that the intellectual drive that took Europe out of the Dark Ages was very much led as a result of the Church

Atilla said:
Europe went through the struggle between Church and State in medieval Europe... Some countries still yet to go through this process. Also - depending on country state v church hold different degree of control. Whilst Iran may have a bias for religion in other secular countries - religion plays only a small part.

In the UK the magna carta was the first attempt around 1200s. Thomas Beckett was a point in case of church interference in running of state tormenting Henry II.

Even the Russians banning religion in 20th century failed. The orthodox church is still active and attempts to play its part. Mullahs have recently started using their religion for political ends. In the Knesset too religious parties have considerable seats and voting rights.

How much it is control and how much it is human instinct driven can be debated but the battle for control has raged on hand in hand and still does imo.

Religion still plays its part in passing laws and maintaining its control.
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Incidentally, Islam at the time also fluorished under the Kaliphate. Obviously they were far more tolerant than the extremism that has evolved in Iran & many other parts of the world today. I guess that the challenge for Muslims today, would be to recover the enlightened state of their past
 
spreader_legger said:
Curious to know where Europe would be today in the absence of the Church.

Something tells me that the evolution following the collapse of the Roman Empire would have followed a very different trajectory. You have to remember you were dealing with rather basic tribes at the time such as the Picts, Vandals etc.

In fact, one could argue that the intellectual drive that took Europe out of the Dark Ages was very much led as a result of the Church
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imo Europe is ahead of the other continents precisely for that reason - Church control and authority was sidelined - allowing freedom of thought and progress to take place against much resistance.
 
For my own peace of mind and speaking for myself only, I should state that all my postings on this thread are purely for (my own) humour and do not reflect any particular bias toward or away from any religion. I believe all organised religions are equally capable of breeding hatred, division, war and misery – and not much else really.

I’d be as unhappy being indiscriminatorily blown up by Muslim fundamentalists as I would Christian fundamentalists or Hindu fundamentalists or Greek Church of the Holy Kebab fundamentalists.

Fundamentalists of any persuasion have less in common with their apparent faiths than they do with each other and the need for the darker side of the human psyche to find outlets and ‘justifications’ for its passions. My own limited experiences in Northern Ireland proved to me beyond any doubt that the vast majority of young men, and women, involved in acts of terrorism were not politically motivated nor were they based on any cultural or religious affiliations, but were purely in it for the kudos of being a member of the uber class of murderer-torturer-terrorist. It was the glory you see. It has, does and always will attract the disaffected and un/under-employed. Being un- or under-educated helps as does being significantly below average intelligence. Obviously there is a connection between all of these factors…

What amazes me, is how anyone with any intelligence can believe in any god, (all of which allegedly are peace, joy, love and tolerance personified) that, having created all that there is, couldn’t stump up the chump change necessary to ensure all his/her/its creations enjoyed all of that which he/she/it had created in that very same peace, joy, love and tolerance.

And before anyone comes up with the angle that he/she/it created the dark side of human nature to ‘test’ their faith in him/her/it, what sort of paranoid delusional entity capable of such insecurities and perversion would be worthy of anyone’s adoration, let alone belief?

No responses required, it was just a rhetorical question. We are all rather expert at constructing convincing rationale to justify our personal insanities.

Cognitive dissonance rules.
 
Sidelined towards the end of the 19th century

This was followed by the dismemberment of hitherto great empires, millions of lives lost during First & Second World War, the rise of Communism etc.

But then again .... what do I know 😀

Atilla said:
imo Europe is ahead of the other continents precisely for that reason - Church control and authority was sidelined - allowing freedom of thought and progress to take place against much resistance.
Click to expand...
 
What amazes me, is how anyone with any intelligence can believe in any god, (all of which allegedly are peace, joy, love and tolerance personified) that, having created all that there is, couldn’t stump up the chump change necessary to ensure all his/her/its creations enjoyed all of that which he/she/it had created in that very same peace, joy, love and tolerance.
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Well if God does exist then the question would need to be a different one in my view which is:
If God has an involvement in creation and evolution then what was God wanting and why ?

This is a question that is never answered to any satisfaction in my view by any of the established religions.


Paul
 
LOL good one Bandit! really appreciate the recommendation.

To answer Trader333, I agree with you. From a self-interest perspective why should God really give a ****?? What I know is that there does appear to be some human need to believe in something.
And in societies that have tried to eliminate this phenomenon it has usually led to tears.

An instrument of control? Perhaps. Maybe we as humans do need some guidance, rules & regulations etc.

As for proof of existence, this is a tricky one. I believe that Keirkegaard mentioned it was more an issue of faith than scientific truth ..... doesn't really make him a dumb ass for believing though does it?
 
For anyone interested in a short, readable survey of modern cosmology (eg what might have preceded the Big Bang, multiverse ideas, quantum computing, other hypotheses (eg whether the 'universe' as nothing but a computer sim is viable!!) I recommend John Gribbin's 'In Search of the Multiverse'.

At the very least, this book will make you rethink the word 'universe'.
 
spreader_legger said:
Sidelined towards the end of the 19th century

This was followed by the dismemberment of hitherto great empires, millions of lives lost during First & Second World War, the rise of Communism etc.

But then again .... what do I know 😀
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First and second world wars were not about religion but more about industrial power, resources and colonial control.
 
Atilla said:
Surprised at the venom being spewed out to a phenomenal man who lived many moons ago.

Here is my understanding which is in stark contrast to all your BS on this thread.

Mohammed also known as the trusted one married his employer who was also older than he was. In fact he had 13 wives I think all together. However, they were older than he was and destitute women who were either widowed or lost their husbands in war or sickness.

Ayshe was I think the only one who was younger than he was and a virgin that he married. However, that is because Mohammed was much loved and reverred by all those that knew him. Also pretty much Ayshe was in love with Mohammed too by all accounts as she grew up near him. There was never any force or coerrcion involved. Moreover, after Mohammed died Ayshe never spoke of any ill doings or bitterly about Mohammed but only in loving terms.

Now you can dispute and argue anyway you want but if you guys have freaking half a brain if not 10% you can conclude that people do not turn paedophiles in their late years. It also does not go with the characther of the man or his conduct. If he had an appetite this would have been apparent long before the 12 wife...

All this BS is written by enemies of Islam who are no different to likes of Osama bin Ladin types hate filled twits who hate Christian and Jews. So it is regurtitating the same old **** - turning the wheels of hate and anomisity. We need to rise above it all.

Use your head and don't be like them.

Now because many men died in wars a law was decreed that one man may take more than one wife subject to permission from the 1st mrs and if he had the means to look after them up to 4. Until then women in all societies were abused and badly treated - all over the world and especially in the ME. Not to mention the burial and disregarding of baby girls as boys were preferred.

This is where it gets interesting. I believe the Quran recommends one as being best for you. Limit is 4. The likes of Saudis have 22 because the Quran also says providing you have the means to support and look after them equally. Not only that the freaking king has 2 children from each wife. Can you imagine these stupid so call-ed muslims breeding like rats.

And this is where the folly is . Men (like you) twist the words of a good man into all kinds of BS. The Saudies take what suits them and disregard the rest. It is just another freaking crowd control as some have said. Same goes for the Iranians who live with one set of rules for women and another set of rules for men. Men are not superior to women. They are simply different. Mullahs who know **** all about the religion or its essence. Some of them haven't been even to a proper school.

So when they take 4 wives they often tend to be a lot younger than the man. Permission is usually not sought. 2nd 3rd and 4th usually become sex kittens or punishment for the first wife.

If all these people want to do as Mohammed did then they should take older wives as that is precisely what he did. Ayshe being the exception. So they may ****ing grow beards and eat with their hands but they are still **** heads when they take more than one woman in modern times when birth rates are roughly 50/50 for the two sexes.

Mohammed is much loved by many and who preached spirituality and the better path to living in harmony and peace. I think **** stirring like this - almost like a school play ground teasing and jeering at other children is not fruitful or beneficial to the good life.
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Kin'ell :-0

Well if I ever need the services of a Public relations officer you'll be the first person I ask! 👍


Atilla said:
At least the capitalists have something to lose. What have the Islamic countries achieved in the last 100 years? Major competitive threat is from the Chinese and Indians.

What do you propose the ME countries will end up trading once oil runs out?
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CLUE



Atilla said:
Europe went through the struggle between Church and State in medieval Europe... Some countries still yet to go through this process.
Click to expand...

Yeah sure, they've yet to go through this process, but armed with nukes not long bows 😢

dd
 
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dick_dastardly said:
Kin'ell :-0

Well if I ever need to services of a Public relations officer you'll be the first person I ask! 👍




CLUE


Yeah sure, they've yet to go through this process, but armed with nukes not long bows 😢

dd
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$19bn! 😆

How long will that last to allow them to live in the life style they have become accustomed to.
 
Dommo said:
For anyone interested in a short, readable survey of modern cosmology (eg what might have preceded the Big Bang, multiverse ideas, quantum computing, other hypotheses (eg whether the 'universe' as nothing but a computer sim is viable!!) I recommend John Gribbin's 'In Search of the Multiverse'.

At the very least, this book will make you rethink the word 'universe'.
Click to expand...
Just when you think it simply can't get any more off topic...

Harry Hill's Surreal of the Week.
 
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